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I suspect the most frustrated people in all this are the blacks who want to live peaceably with others and don’t accept these false, race-baiting narratives, yet are lumped in with and pressured by the BLM crowd.A mixed-up view of race seriously damaging our country.
Candace Owens
Confession: GeorgeFloyd is neither a martyr or a hero. But I hope his family gets justice. (18 minutes)
I have studied statistics over the years and I agree with Candace
I’d be curious who you’re referring to when you mention “people like us”. I doubt there are many people on any side who have been dismissive of the police officer who senselessly sat on George Floyd’s neck for 9 mins. The guy should be charged for murder and I think most would agree. What is most frustrating though is how the race baiters use this as one more excuse to continue fanning flames on the whole racial tension.It seems to me there are two extremes that aren't right. The one extreme is the one Candace seems to reference. But the other extreme is people like us being dismissive about the whole thing. I tend to cringe at BOTH.
I did think of Jeremiah 13:23 when listening to Vodie Baucham’s speech in the OP...Just to be contrarian: Yes, we are one human race and one blood. But the concepts of racial and ethnic differences is rooted in reality. There are many physiological differences between different blocs of people. This doesn't mean they are all not saveable before God, nor does it mean that their ontological worth is not all the same, but neither does it mean they are all alike and with the same gifts and weaknesses as others.
Just to be contrarian: Yes, we are one human race and one blood. But the concepts of racial and ethnic differences is rooted in reality. There are many physiological differences between different blocs of people. This doesn't mean they are all not saveable before God, nor does it mean that their ontological worth is not all the same, but neither does it mean they are all alike and with the same gifts and weaknesses as others.
When I say dismissive I mean dismissive of those who feel the need to protest. I'm obviously not a fan of the violent sort. But as someone who isn't black, I can't pretend to know how this feels or strikes a person of color. That's all I meant.I’d be curious who you’re referring to when you mention “people like us”.
True. Yet laws and their applications should make no such distinctions.There are many physiological differences between different blocs of people.
When I say dismissive I mean dismissive of those who feel the need to protest. I'm obviously not a fan of the violent sort. But as someone who isn't black, I can't pretend to know how this feels or strikes a person of color. That's all I meant.
Ed,This is more of a rant than a response to your statements.
You said, "as someone who isn't black, I can't pretend to know how this feels or strikes a person of color." And why does skin pigment make any difference? It doesn't. It is the culture that is different--very different.
78% of blacks that claim to be protestants believe in abortion at some level. 75% of blacks are now born out of wedlock. And I don't mean married at one time, but the father has left. I mean not married at all. And more black babies are aborted than are born alive. Aborted at a rate three times that of whites. So much for Black Lives Matter. What chance do these children have to become useful members of society? Very little. They are told over and over that they are victims. Victims of all sorts of things, but especially victims of white privilege. Many blacks are racists to the extreme. They have been told over and over again, mostly by white democrats and many prophets of there own, that they are entitled to practically every basic need that other cultures work for. They should be encouraged to work harder than their white counterparts, but to say that labels one a racist.
Yesterday I did some research from FBI statistics and then normalized the data to adjust for population differences. Do you know that blacks per capita are murdered at a rate of 4.71 times more than their white counterparts? And whites rarely commit the murder. In 2016 only 243 blacks were killed by whites. Nearly all the rest were murdered by other blacks.
What I say next, I have never heard a single person say, but I will. Black culture is under the judgment of God. Of course, there are secondary causes, but to concentrate on those causes and leave God out of it is a colossal error. They desperately need a cultural shot in the arm that can only come from the saving grace of God. But they would deeply resent being told that. But let's tell them anyway. God is merciful.
Colored meaning what? Black only?Ed,
I can assume that your grandfather (or great grandfather) wasn't a slave.
There is history you and I can't understand, being white.
That's all I'm saying.
I realize the vast majority of people here disagree. That's fine.
I would just appreciate to hear especially from my colored Christian brothers and sisters their thoughts on what's going on.
Blessings.
My apologies. I wasn't trying to start anything, just clarifying.I give up. Blessings everyone.
This is more of a rant than a response to your statements.
You said, "as someone who isn't black, I can't pretend to know how this feels or strikes a person of color." And why does skin pigment make any difference? It doesn't. It is the culture that is different--very different.
But as someone who isn't black, I can't pretend to know how this feels or strikes a person of color. That's all I meant.
They desperately need a cultural shot in the arm that can only come from the saving grace of God. But they would deeply resent being told that. But let's tell them anyway. God is merciful.
There is history you and I can't understand, being white.
That's all I'm saying.
Friends, I am not really qualified to speak on the situation in the USA but I live in a country that has gained worldwide respect for genuine attempts to bring about racial harmony. I make that statement with some qualification because some of this harmony has been 'politically correct', and my country in general has moved away from its Christian heritage. For example I mentioned this countries evil abortion law which recently went through Parliament.Colored meaning what? Black only?
Black culture is under the judgment of God. Of course, there are secondary causes, but to concentrate on those causes and leave God out of it is a colossal error. They desperately need a cultural shot in the arm that can only come from the saving grace of God. But they would deeply resent being told that. But let's tell them anyway.
Would you please name a culture that is not under the judgment of God?
Y'know, I'm one who thought Candace Owens' 'rant' was great. On the money. Sure, the guy was unjustly murdered, I'm with that, and think the cop should be prosecuted.Ed,
I can assume that your grandfather (or great grandfather) wasn't a slave.
There is history you and I can't understand, being white.
That's all I'm saying.
I realize the vast majority of people here disagree. That's fine.
I would just appreciate to hear especially from my colored Christian brothers and sisters their thoughts on what's going on.
Blessings.
Spot on.I want to reign in some biology assumptions here. Race is a social construct. Race is not biological as we talk about it today (which really has inputted ethnicity to be biological). Just as "gender" has been conflated with "sex" in terminology and connotation recently, I think many do the same with "ethnicity" and "race." Much of the "divergence" in biological "race" (or, in other words...the minute, statistically insignificant percentage of genes that diverge to give me more melanin and darker hair than someone else) is over inflated. It is a common misconception for many things about humans that we attribute to genetics what is often more nuanced and flavored with environmental factors (that nature vs nurture...people often state nature what is usually more nurture). This idea that there are substantial, biological differences is already shaky based on how complicated we know genes even within a family generation (mother/father to child) are, much less in a world of increasing globalization and a nation (America) with so much genetic interbreeding that these "differences" are not able to be applied so monolithically. I think some of the simplest way to prove this as faulty reasoning is in looking at health outcomes, many of which we often attribute to large groups of people. You will find that health outcomes of [insert ethnic group here] in America is going to be different than their "genetically similar" counterparts in a home nation. (Think: obesity or cholesterol as some big ticket items). (Note: Not saying health data is not helpful, but it helps to know it in context, and the groups to which one belongs). One of my other favorite (and more fun) examples is how Dutch people went from being the shortest people in the world to the tallest people in the world with the advent of industrialization--clearly a matter of genetics being bolstered by nurture and not just "Dutch people are tall thanks to genetics alone" or "Dutch people are natural basketball players."
A lot of our predispositions, certainly, have something to do with genes. But just as I have before talked on this board the "astrology/fortune-telling" nature of DNA tests to "tell one who they are" -- so too I believe it is folly that we often over-exaggerate the role of genes and instead use them as forecasting the potential of a person--physical, mental, emotional, etc. That's just simply not how it works.
I am not to say all that in order to be "color blind" or to say that there are not ethnic/cultural differences. But, as alluded to, ethnicity/culture is not necessarily based on "race" or biology (though that is correlated because of migration patterns of people in the world, so certainly it often is closely tied and has been for much of human history).
I also think, oddly enough, as I dwelled on several Voddie Baucham talks on the subject and my own thoughts, that I have found that the way we talk about race, especially in recent times in this country, has abstracted race even further from specific ethnic groups or cultural identities to really just skin color. And stereotypes and monolithic assumptions to whole groups of people just based on skin color, not even just culture . All black people are not the same ethnicity and do not share the same culture. All Asians, not even all Filipinos or all Chinese or all Indians, share the same ethnicity or culture (ironically, even genetics diverge in these groups!!). Yet, we are abstracting more and more to monolithic groups that even the SJW who demands all voices be heard, essentially erases the voices of many ethnic groups at once and subsumes us all into categories of simply color. It's a dangerous trail to get on. As Baucham notes: there is a ditch on either side, and I hope we as Christians do not stumble to either way, which I think is a fear of many. I have seen many churches and church people dip their toes in either ditch.
I appreciated this talk on Ethnic Gnosticism that Voddie made, to which I alluded to above:
I could go on and on, but I expect you get my drift ... as for slavery ... My mother's side of the family was Russian/Jewish.
My ancestors were slaves for 400 years in Egypt, 70 years in Babylon.
Nobody is asking for reperations .
I would rather you answered the question -- that was why I asked it.Can I answer a question with some questions?
I didn't assert anything, you might remember, since I asked a question.Are you saying that all cultures are treated equally by God? Was the Judgment of God on Israel the same as his judgment on Judah? Nations are simply moral persons, so I guess I could ask about individuals too. We're Jacob, and Esau treated equally? As far as that goes, are any two people treated identically by God?
To whom much is given, much will be required.I think it's pretty safe to say that the once more Christian America is under greater condemnation for the sin of abortion then China.
To whom much is given much will be required?
That escalated quickly. I'm not sure why you're asking me if anyone is an inferior race, but no. The image of God, and the damage done to it by Adam's fall, is not affected by the variations among groups of humans.I've already mentioned that the absolute predestination of God includes secondary cause. If not the judgment of God on the Black culture, then what? Are they an inferior race?
True. Yet laws and their applications should make no such distinctions.
While everything you say is true from my own personal perspective there is more to it. My father was a non observant Baptist from Mississippi, my mother a non observant Jew from NY ... I was confused.I appreciate a lot of what you said. But I think your remembered consciousness of slavery must be very different from a consciousness that relates to our own nation and that would have impacted your opportunities and actual memories. Your Russian/Jewish mother's side is not present here in America because of being stolen from their land/possessions and sold as property. Sold apart from each other, disallowed to keep their own children. Freed after several generations of owning nothing, of not being allowed to form stable families. Into a culture that still segregated them, denied them equal opportunities with other immigrants, and maintained for awhile many forms of contempt.
Your ancestors were able to flee that for a better place, and that is part of your consciousness of being an American citizen.
It would be far different if America were the place of your persecution and if in your lifetime you had experienced the segregation and contempt.
Whatever we want to say about 'reparations', all of this was a great evil that leaves a deep wound on a culture, and problems that persist. That don't go away because we wave a magic equality wand.
My own consciousness of being an American involves many encounters with what was a very clear racially motivated hatred (the belief that some people groups are cursed and ought to be enslaved, a dragging death, etc.) I don't know what it's like to be on the other side of those encounters, to have that consciousness embedded in my national heritage -- citing the hardly remembered slavery of people in another nation is not the same as having dealt with it and its ramifications here.
I like to hear Candace Owens speak too. She says a lot of good things.