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Piggybacking off James K.A Smith should churches be proclaiming the pledge of allegiance or the apostle's creed every Sunday, and some churches do both?
True, but if I remember correctly he was piggybacking of Haurwas when he wrote it. Maybe it's just a refining of Haurwas, but his thought in general. And it may be a southern thing but I've been in good well meaning churches that have done just that. It's the questions I like, not always the answers.Two different issues. I can't imagine any sane reason for saying the pledge in church. I'm all for saying the Apostles' Creed, though.
I also like his criticism of modernity, although I wish he would have taken it in a pressupossitional direction. There's an essay I have alluding to this I will post when I get home from work, duty calls and bills have to be paid.
Yeah I believe. I used to have that book. He liked Niebur, hope I spelled that write. In the end he called the church to be a wittnes to the world of Christianity if it were true. Boenhoffer might have been in there too. Interesting but not the best.If I recall from Grain of the Universe he holds to Barth's critique of natural theology.
I like, thanks for sharing. Again I like the questions he asks, not all the answers. Should it not be asked where our allegiance really lyes, with Christ or with a state that shouldn't be Christian but tries to be Lord? Again I'm pretty much 2 kingdom but a healthy dose Haurwas and Smith might leave us asking good questions? Not our theory but our practice might determine where our hearts really lye. Even Rome, a la Romans 13, was terrible to Christians, and was pagan to the hilt. How does democracy do us any better? Just thoughts.While I reject Peter Leithart's theology, his commentary on "Stanley the Prophet" is pretty funny.
Once there was a prophet named Stanley. He was a bold and faithful man who stood against the powers of the age.
You cannot do that, he would say to the King. You are going to end up in hell and people are going to hate you.
One day the king began to listen and see the wisdom of Stanley's words. When Stanley told him that the weak must be protected from the vicious strong, the king took steps to protect the weak. When Stanley told him that Jesus was Lord, the king bowed his knee. When Stanley told him that "religious freedom" is an idol from the Enlightenment, the king took heed.
And the king made a proclamation, that all in his kingdom should weak sackcloth and ashes and repent of their sins, even to the beast of burden.
And Stanely went out from the city and made a shelter and sat under it and refused to speak again to the king.
"Lord, please take my life from me, for death is better to me than life. I am a prophet, not a chaplain."
And the Lord said, "Do you have good reason to be angry?"
As for the king, he was greatly confused and knew not what to do; for he had done all that Stanley had asked.
I like, thanks for sharing. Again I like the questions he asks, not all the answers. Should it not be asked where our allegiance really lyes, with Christ or with a state that shouldn't be Christian but tries to be Lord? Again I'm pretty much 2 kingdom but a healthy dose Haurwas and Smith might leave us asking good questions? Not our theory but our practice might determine where our hearts really lye. Even Rome, a la Romans 13, was terrible to Christians, and was pagan to the hilt. How does democracy do us any better? Just thoughts.
About the true polos thing, I think at least for Smith, the church reflects the true polis. I could be wrong but that is slightly different. But it has a certain overlap, only a certain overlap, between him (Haurwas?) And 2 kingdom people about the church being the church first. But it's the point that is different. One sees a political point also, or at least partly political, the other a spiritual point only, with maybe a political point somewhere. Worth exploring.One reason why we Christians argue so much about which hymn to sing, which liturgy to follow, which way to worship is that the commandments teach us to believe that bad liturgy eventually leads to bad ethics. You begin by singing some sappy, sentimental hymn, then you pray some pointless prayer, and the next thing you know you have murdered your best friend. – Stanley Hauerwas
About the true polos thing, I think at least for Smith, the church reflects the true polis. I could be wrong but that is slightly different. But it has a certain overlap, only a certain overlap, between him (Haurwas?) And 2 kingdom people about the church being the church first. But it's the point that is different. One sees a political point also, or at least partly political, the other a spiritual point only, with maybe a political point somewhere. Worth exploring.
I think for instance there maybe a better way of mixing 2 kingdom thought with Smith and maybe H aurwas on Christ and culture. I'm only exploring it though.
I yeah he has evolved, have you read "Awaiting the King" by Smith? It's a bit confusing, he doesn't seem to (I could be missing it) all the threads he wants to group together. Thanks, I look forward to reading it!Smith's thinking has evolved somewhat. He used to be in with the Yoderian pacifist crowd, which is unbiblical. But the more he read Oliver O'Donovan, the more untenable he saw that view.
As to the true polis: if one wants to say that there are two poleis, but the church is the better one--that's fine. I don't think that is what the Radical Orthodoxy crowd is saying. Hans Boersma wrote a great essay on Milbank on this point. I'll try to find it.
I yeah he has evolved, have you read "Awaiting the King" by Smith? It's a bit confusing, he doesn't seem to (I could be missing it) all the threads he wants to group together. Thanks, I look forward to reading it!
Yeah these are just thoughts I've been trying to weave together.
Right. My point about it being confusing. I'm reread it again soon and see if it doesn't make more sense. It just seemed like he couldn't, or wouldn't, come down somewhere in the whole debate. By the end I was left asking where do you stand then?I haven't. I've listened to some of his talks. I think he gets Augustine correct. I think he gets Oliver O'Donovan correct. He likes both. Problem: both men liked (or at least appreciated) Christendom. He can't have it both ways.