Do you prefer hymns over psalms?

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It could if he had set it up that way. :) So no, it wouldn’t. But again, I believe it is clearly shown through a careful study through Kings and Chronicles on the subject that it’s these 150 Psalms God commissioned for our use.

Check just the first couple of prefaces out Ryan: https://archive.org/details/truepsalmodyorbi00phil/page/n7
You can buy the book at Amazon.
Then go raise little Psalm singers.
I would love to look into all that, but I'll have to try to make some sacrifices with time to do it. I do know you are very smart and wise, so maybe I can just take your word for it.
 
This is very interesting. In Heaven we will sing a song in the Bible that's not a psalm, but we aren't allowed to right now?
You could get distracted on many questions but you haven’t yet got the information you need to know how to rightly pursue them. The main thing is, what has God given his church to sing?

Just a comment on the Revelation passage Jacob mentions: this is the song of Moses and of the Lamb. It contains phrases you would find in the Psalms. It contains none of the phrases found in Moses’ and Miriam’s song recorded in Exodus. Just pointing that out; there’s much more to say about interpreting Revelation but I’m not equipped for that.
 
Jeri,

Please interact with my words. I said EP, not uninspired. Do you advocate singing other scripture besides Psalms?
No, I don’t in corporate worship because I hold to exclusive psalmody. I’m assuming you’re thinking of Bible figures like Deborah and Solomon who composed and sang prophetic songs, and you’re calling them non-EP? If so, as discussed with Ryan, the Psalms had not yet been commissioned and collected as the songbook for the church. Hope that makes it clear.
 
Oops, sorry about Solomon, obviously the Psalms had been commissioned! I think Solomon composed at least one song included in the Psalter.
 
No, I don’t in corporate worship because I hold to exclusive psalmody. I’m assuming you’re thinking of Bible figures like Deborah and Solomon who composed and sang prophetic songs, and you’re calling them non-EP? If so, as discussed with Ryan, the Psalms had not yet been commissioned and collected as the songbook for the church. Hope that makes it clear.

Can you definitively prove that any biblical believers were EP? Your haven't answered the question.
 
Can you definitively prove that any biblical believers were EP? Your haven't answered the question.
I think I did answer the question by saying that it could be shown by good and necessary inference. As I rambled on to Ryan my memory served me better and I explained that a careful study through Kings and Chronicles tells the story of God’s giving the pattern of worship through David and the prophets Gad and Nathan, which included the commissioning of writing songs that we see gathered into the collection we call the Psalms to equip the singing of the church. All of this leads me, as it led the church up until enlightenment times, to the conclusion that in worship, God’s people were to sing these prophetic songs penned for the church and collected into a volume called The Book Of Praises. It would make the church EP from David until now.
 
Earl, do you understand what the "P" means in RPW?



In your mind is a rule the same as a principle?

Rule or principle?....But the acceptable way of worshipping the true God is instituted by himself, and so limited to his own revealed will, that he may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representations or any other way not prescribed in the Holy Scripture.
 
So there were believers in Scripture who composed and sang songs other than psalms. As far as I have seen, it hasn't been stated who those are. (Presumably Moses, Deborah, Solomon, Zechariah, maybe Mary.)

How does the presence of these songs in Scripture, or the bare fact that believers sang songs other than psalms. How does this give warrant for their use in public worship? Are we still using the earlier definition of the RPW?

Fesko:

"Briefly stated, the RPW is the teaching that only those things commanded in Scripture may be performed in the worship of God."

In any case, the aforementioned songs are still Scripture. That is, they are inspired. By what leap do we go from "Believers sang songs other than psalms in the Bible" to "We ought to pen and sing man-made hymns in the church's corporate worship"?
 
I think I did answer the question by saying that it could be shown by good and necessary inference. As I rambled on to Ryan my memory served me better and I explained that a careful study through Kings and Chronicles tells the story of God’s giving the pattern of worship through David and the prophets Gad and Nathan, which included the commissioning of writing songs that we see gathered into the collection we call the Psalms to equip the singing of the church. All of this leads me, as it led the church up until enlightenment times, to the conclusion that in worship, God’s people were to sing these prophetic songs penned for the church and collected into a volume called The Book Of Praises. It would make the church EP from David until now.
This sounds awesome. I just don't know why this book would have to be the only songs we can ever sing in the church.
 
It would make the church EP from David until now.

Do you believe that all religious Jews before the time of Christ were EP? Do you believe they composed any hymns or Psalms other than the collected 150 Psalms? How about the Church shortly after the time of Christ, do you believe they were EP?
 
This sounds awesome. I just don't know why this book would have to be the only songs we can ever sing in the church.
Well, if Psalms and only Psalms are what God has commanded the church to sing when gathered together, that would be the first reason we would only sing them. And we would learn that they are uniquely fitted for the church, a perfect and sufficient gift to grow the church to maturity through singing.
 
It would make the church EP from David until now

Not exactly. David commanded the Song of the Bow to be sung throughout Israel after Saul's death. And as Prof Duguid pointed out, the idea of a completed Psalter didn't happen until after the exile. Of course, they could have sang only the available psalms at any given time. But it wouldn't have been anything like what we have with our Psalter.

And given that the Exodus was the defining moment in Israel's existence, and given that Moses wrote the psalm about horse and rider being thrown into the sea, it is exceedingly likely they sang that as well.
 
if Psalms and only Psalms are what God has commanded the church to sing when gathered together

There are ways to make a strong case for EP, but this might not be it. What we specifically don't have in Scripture is God's saying, "Thus only shall you sing...."

One of the reasons we don't have that is that for much of Israel's history they didn't have a completed, much less identifiable psalter. And many religious songs were in existence alongside (Moses, Deborah, the Song of the Bow) the psalms (which, of course, weren't gathered as a completed 150 songs book).
 
And if you appeal to early church history on the psalter in the church, they chanted them according to a fairly literal translation of the Hebrew. What you specifically do not have--and I suspect they would have rebelled against--is changing the structure and wording of the psalm to make an artificial rhyme. They didn't need to do that, since when you chant a psalm you are able to put it to music without having to make it rhyme.
 
Do you believe that all religious Jews before the time of Christ were EP? Do you believe they composed any hymns or Psalms other than the collected 150 Psalms? How about the Church shortly after the time of Christ, do you believe they were EP?
There were religious Jews long before we have a record of songs being composed for public worship, so I don’t know how the label EP could be applied to them. But I do believe any songs sung by religious Jews in public worship before David would have been inspired songs of praise.

All inspired songs in the OT were of course written by prophets. So yes we have the infallible record of prophetic songs being composed or sung. We don’t know what any private person my have done that isn’t recorded in Scripture.

The church from David until the time of Christ (and following) was EP. I think some hymns began being composed pretty early
on, not sure about when any approved use in the church began. Not while the apostles were alive.
 
Not exactly. David commanded the Song of the Bow to be sung throughout Israel after Saul's death. And as Prof Duguid pointed out, the idea of a completed Psalter didn't happen until after the exile. Of course, they could have sang only the available psalms at any given time. But it wouldn't have been anything like what we have with our Psalter.

And given that the Exodus was the defining moment in Israel's existence, and given that Moses wrote the psalm about horse and rider being thrown into the sea, it is exceedingly likely they sang that as well.

I don’t know the facts about the completed Psalter, but the Psalms began to be used in worship immediately. As you said, there was no need for a completed book before their use began.

Yes, they sang the Exodus composition at the time of God’s delivering them. I think I already talked about inspired praise prior to David in another post.
 
There are ways to make a strong case for EP, but this might not be it. What we specifically don't have in Scripture is God's saying, "Thus only shall you sing...."

One of the reasons we don't have that is that for much of Israel's history they didn't have a completed, much less identifiable psalter. And many religious songs were in existence alongside (Moses, Deborah, the Song of the Bow) the psalms (which, of course, weren't gathered as a completed 150 songs book).
There are many doctrinal truths that are arrived at by good and necessary inference, not an explicit command or statement by God- the Trinity is one, psalmody is another. We find out many truths including God’s will by the use of necessary inference. He designed it that way for a reason.
 
Are you aware of the Thanksgiving Hymns/Qumran Psalter or the Odes of Solomon?


Do you believe such passages as Philippians 2:6-11 and Colossians 1:15-20 are hymns?
Again, with any ancient extant hymns, you have to distinguish between public worship and the private composition of uninspired hymns by private individuals.

No I don’t think there’s any compelling reason to think those are hymns or snippets of hymns. People can debate that, but again, the distinction is whether any such thing would have been part of the public worship of the church.
 
I will add that worship could have and I’m sure it did become corrupted in OT times and very quickly after the apostles. But impurity brought in by men has nothing to do with what God has commanded.
 
I will add that worship could have and I’m sure it did become corrupted in OT times and very quickly after the apostles. But impurity brought in by men has nothing to do with what God has commanded.
Yeah, I was going to say I recently read of first century public worship where each person would sing a hymn they wrote. It can either prove men are going against God's will or they are continuing the practice of the church.
 
No I don’t think there’s any compelling reason to think those are hymns or snippets of hymns.

"Many believe that Paul has adopted a preexisting hymn (so, e.g., Schweizer 1982: 55–56 and literature cited there). This is typically based on the following observations about 1:15–20: (1) that verses 15–20 contain balanced rhythmic units; (2) the section could appear to stand alone and make sense apart from its context; (3) frequently repeated words, (4) non-Pauline phraseology and hapax legomena; (5) the use of literary devices such as chiasm (or inclusio or parallel or antithetically parallel expressions); (6) the unusually numerous relative pronouns; (7) the shift in pronouns: verses 13–14 are in the first person, and verses 21–23 are in the second and third person, while verses 15–20 are consistently in the third person (see Mitchell 2000: 65; Garland 1998: 82, summarizing most of these observations by others). More recently Gordley (2007: 32–39) defines Col. 1:15–20 as “an example of a hybrid of Jewish and Greco-Roman expressions of praise that can be considered a philosophical prose hymn” (2007: 39), which has been adopted by the author of Colossians (2007: 170–230)

Beale, G. K. (2019). Colossians and Philemon. (R. W. Yarbrough & J. W. Jipp, Eds.) (p. 77). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic: A Division of Baker Publishing Group."

"A Hymn in Praise of Christ (1:15–20)

15 He is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn of all creation.

16 For in him were created all things
in the heavens and on the earth,
the visible and the invisible,
whether thrones or dominions
or principalities or authorities;
all things were created through him and for him.

17 He himself is before all things,
and all things hold together in him;

18 and he is the head of the body, the church.
He is the beginning, the firstborn from2 the dead,
in order that he might be in all things preeminent.

19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,

20 and through him to reconcile all things to him,
making peace through the blood of his cross (through him),
whether the things on the earth or the things in the heavens.

It is generally agreed that at this point the writer(s) have included an already formed hymn. The marks of hymnic or poetic form are clear enough (cf. particularly Wolter 72):

(1) a relative clause beginning with “who” (ὅς), presupposing an opening line that identified the object of praise and evoked the hymnic response, and introducing a sustained description of the one so designated (cf. Phil. 2:6; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 1:3; 1 Pet. 2:22);
(2) a sequence of clauses and phrases that fall easily into matching rhythmic units;
(3) a clear structure of two strophes (1:15–18a, 18b–20), marked by paralleling of key motifs—

1:15 “who is the firstborn” 1:18b
1:16 “because in him” 1:19
1:16 “all things, through him, to him” 1:20

—by the thematic repetition of “all things” (twice each in vv. 16 and 17, once each in vv. 18 and 20), and by a movement from the creation of “all things in the heavens and on the earth” (1:16) to a climax of reconciliation of “the things on the earth and the things in the heavens” (1:20; see, e.g., discussion in Kehl, Christushymnus 28–49);
(4) resulting in a rounded unit whose meaning is self-contained and not dependent on its immediate context but which nevertheless appears to have been “nested” between two passages functioning as introduction (1:12–14: “in whom … who”) and corollary (1:21–23: “to reconcile all things … and you he has now reconciled”), even though it disrupts the context to the extent that it interposes a third person sequence into a more personal “we/you” sequence;
(5) not to mention (the least decisive consideration) the appearance of various terms (particularly “visible,” “thrones,” “hold together,” “beginning,” “be preeminent,” “making peace,” “the blood of the cross”) that are not found elsewhere in Paul (Deichgräber 153 is overconfident on this point).


Dunn, J. D. G. (1996). The Epistles to the Colossians and to Philemon: a commentary on the Greek text (pp. 83–84). Grand Rapids, MI; Carlisle: William B. Eerdmans Publishing; Paternoster Press."

"The most common explanation for this syntactical distinctiveness is that Paul is here quoting traditional material, a “hymn” or confession about Christ. Other evidence cited in favor of this hypothesis is (1) the relative pronoun that opens the passage (hos, for which TNIV has supplied the antecedent, Son), which is said to be typical of New Testament “hymns” (e.g., Phil. 2:6; 1 Tim. 3:16); (2) the occurrence of some words that are rare or absent in Paul’s own vocabulary; and (3) the repetition of some key words and phrases. Further speculation about the original hymn’s content, structure, and life-setting in the church has generated a veritable academic cottage industry. And “speculation” is, all too often, the appropriate word, for many of the theories rest on pretty weak or greatly debated foundations. Where these theories affect our interpretation of the passage, we will bring them into our discussion either here or at the relevant point in the exposition.

Moo, D. J. (2008). The letters to the Colossians and to Philemon (pp. 108–109). Grand Rapids, MI: William B. Eerdmans Pub. Co."

"Paul obviously uses the language and concepts of the hymn as his christological ammunition in fighting the false teachers. This consonance between “hymn” and the rest of the letter can be explained in two ways. (1) Paul quotes a hymn that provides the theology he needs to combat the false teachers. (2) Paul composes a hymn that enunciates the theology he will use to combat the false teachers. Deciding between these options is difficult. On the one hand, favoring Pauline authorship is the improbability that he would find a ready-made hymn that so nicely dovetailed with the theology he needed to bring to bear against this particular false teaching. But, on the other hand, some of the concepts of the “hymn” are not clearly (or only indirectly) taken up in the rest of the letter (e.g., “image of God”; “firstborn over creation”; “in him all things hold together”; “the beginning and the firstborn from the dead”). Moreover, we have to allow for the possibility that Paul has “redacted” an earlier hymn by adding elements particularly relevant to the false teaching (many scholars think the language about spiritual beings in vv. 16 and 20 falls into this category). We slightly incline to this latter option as the most likely: Paul has quoted and redacted an earlier hymn.

Moo, D. J. (2008). The letters to the Colossians and to Philemon (p. 110). Grand Rapids, MI: William B. Eerdmans Pub. Co."
 
"Many believe that Paul has adopted a preexisting hymn (so, e.g., Schweizer 1982: 55–56 and literature cited there). This is typically based on the following observations about 1:15–20: (1) that verses 15–20 contain balanced rhythmic units; (2) the section could appear to stand alone and make sense apart from its context; (3) frequently repeated words, (4) non-Pauline phraseology and hapax legomena; (5) the use of literary devices such as chiasm (or inclusio or parallel or antithetically parallel expressions); (6) the unusually numerous relative pronouns; (7) the shift in pronouns: verses 13–14 are in the first person, and verses 21–23 are in the second and third person, while verses 15–20 are consistently in the third person (see Mitchell 2000: 65; Garland 1998: 82, summarizing most of these observations by others). More recently Gordley (2007: 32–39) defines Col. 1:15–20 as “an example of a hybrid of Jewish and Greco-Roman expressions of praise that can be considered a philosophical prose hymn” (2007: 39), which has been adopted by the author of Colossians (2007: 170–230)

Beale, G. K. (2019). Colossians and Philemon. (R. W. Yarbrough & J. W. Jipp, Eds.) (p. 77). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic: A Division of Baker Publishing Group."

"A Hymn in Praise of Christ (1:15–20)

15 He is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn of all creation.

16 For in him were created all things
in the heavens and on the earth,
the visible and the invisible,
whether thrones or dominions
or principalities or authorities;
all things were created through him and for him.

17 He himself is before all things,
and all things hold together in him;

18 and he is the head of the body, the church.
He is the beginning, the firstborn from2 the dead,
in order that he might be in all things preeminent.

19 For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell,

20 and through him to reconcile all things to him,
making peace through the blood of his cross (through him),
whether the things on the earth or the things in the heavens.

It is generally agreed that at this point the writer(s) have included an already formed hymn. The marks of hymnic or poetic form are clear enough (cf. particularly Wolter 72):

(1) a relative clause beginning with “who” (ὅς), presupposing an opening line that identified the object of praise and evoked the hymnic response, and introducing a sustained description of the one so designated (cf. Phil. 2:6; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 1:3; 1 Pet. 2:22);
(2) a sequence of clauses and phrases that fall easily into matching rhythmic units;
(3) a clear structure of two strophes (1:15–18a, 18b–20), marked by paralleling of key motifs—

1:15 “who is the firstborn” 1:18b
1:16 “because in him” 1:19
1:16 “all things, through him, to him” 1:20

—by the thematic repetition of “all things” (twice each in vv. 16 and 17, once each in vv. 18 and 20), and by a movement from the creation of “all things in the heavens and on the earth” (1:16) to a climax of reconciliation of “the things on the earth and the things in the heavens” (1:20; see, e.g., discussion in Kehl, Christushymnus 28–49);
(4) resulting in a rounded unit whose meaning is self-contained and not dependent on its immediate context but which nevertheless appears to have been “nested” between two passages functioning as introduction (1:12–14: “in whom … who”) and corollary (1:21–23: “to reconcile all things … and you he has now reconciled”), even though it disrupts the context to the extent that it interposes a third person sequence into a more personal “we/you” sequence;
(5) not to mention (the least decisive consideration) the appearance of various terms (particularly “visible,” “thrones,” “hold together,” “beginning,” “be preeminent,” “making peace,” “the blood of the cross”) that are not found elsewhere in Paul (Deichgräber 153 is overconfident on this point).


Dunn, J. D. G. (1996). The Epistles to the Colossians and to Philemon: a commentary on the Greek text (pp. 83–84). Grand Rapids, MI; Carlisle: William B. Eerdmans Publishing; Paternoster Press."

"The most common explanation for this syntactical distinctiveness is that Paul is here quoting traditional material, a “hymn” or confession about Christ. Other evidence cited in favor of this hypothesis is (1) the relative pronoun that opens the passage (hos, for which TNIV has supplied the antecedent, Son), which is said to be typical of New Testament “hymns” (e.g., Phil. 2:6; 1 Tim. 3:16); (2) the occurrence of some words that are rare or absent in Paul’s own vocabulary; and (3) the repetition of some key words and phrases. Further speculation about the original hymn’s content, structure, and life-setting in the church has generated a veritable academic cottage industry. And “speculation” is, all too often, the appropriate word, for many of the theories rest on pretty weak or greatly debated foundations. Where these theories affect our interpretation of the passage, we will bring them into our discussion either here or at the relevant point in the exposition.

Moo, D. J. (2008). The letters to the Colossians and to Philemon (pp. 108–109). Grand Rapids, MI: William B. Eerdmans Pub. Co."

"Paul obviously uses the language and concepts of the hymn as his christological ammunition in fighting the false teachers. This consonance between “hymn” and the rest of the letter can be explained in two ways. (1) Paul quotes a hymn that provides the theology he needs to combat the false teachers. (2) Paul composes a hymn that enunciates the theology he will use to combat the false teachers. Deciding between these options is difficult. On the one hand, favoring Pauline authorship is the improbability that he would find a ready-made hymn that so nicely dovetailed with the theology he needed to bring to bear against this particular false teaching. But, on the other hand, some of the concepts of the “hymn” are not clearly (or only indirectly) taken up in the rest of the letter (e.g., “image of God”; “firstborn over creation”; “in him all things hold together”; “the beginning and the firstborn from the dead”). Moreover, we have to allow for the possibility that Paul has “redacted” an earlier hymn by adding elements particularly relevant to the false teaching (many scholars think the language about spiritual beings in vv. 16 and 20 falls into this category). We slightly incline to this latter option as the most likely: Paul has quoted and redacted an earlier hymn.

Moo, D. J. (2008). The letters to the Colossians and to Philemon (p. 110). Grand Rapids, MI: William B. Eerdmans Pub. Co."
“Paul quotes a hymn that provides the theology he needs to combat the false teachers...” Hehe, that struck me as funny.

Yes, it’s a popular speculation.
 
Here’s an example of another view of those passages from John McNaughter:

On Supposed Hymn Fragments Sung In The Early Church

Did the early church sing uninspired (merely written by men) songs in their public worship together? Many claim that they did, and as proof they point to supposed hymns or fragments quoted by the Apostles. Here are some excerpts from The Psalms in Worship, edited by John McNaughter, that help clarify:

IV. Are there traces of hymns in the Epistles? It is affirmed with much positiveness that there are fragments of hymns found in the Epistles, and that these must have been in use in the Apostolic Church... ...[but] in all the historical records that have been consulted there is not a hint that this text [i.e., any text in any Epistle] is the fragment of a Christian hymn. Assertions by interpreters there are in plenty; of historical evidence there is none.

The chief, if not the only, proof adduced in support of the view that it [any supposed hymn text in the Epistles] is the fragment of a “Christian hymn” is its poetical structure. It has the parallelism that distinguishes Hebrew poetry. Accordingly, the American Revision prints it as verse. Is the plea well founded? [Consider the truth that] all intense thought, whether of writing or public speech, falls into rhythm. This is true of the best writing of uninspired men; it is preeminently true of the penmen of Scripture. There is often a measured beat in the sentences that the reader feels, can almost hear.

There are many such rhythmical passages in the Epistles... [Mr.] Winer furnishes thirteen instances of poetical parallelism, 1 Timothy 3:16 being one of the thirteen. Green’s Handbook, the second, gives seven more. Thus, in all, we have twenty such rhythmical texts in the Epistles. If we include the whole body of New Testament Scripture, the number will exceed thirty. These all have the poetical structure of 1 Timothy 3:16. Are they all “fragments of Christian hymns?”1 Timothy 3:16 does not by any means stand alone as to poetical structure; it is only one of many passages of the like form. Therefore no weight can attach to its parallelism as proof of its being a "Christian hymn." The argument breaks down totally because it proves too much. If such exegesis should prevail, then no limit scarcely can be fixed to the hymnal fragments of the New Testament; the Book abounds with them.

[One] passage must be briefly noted—2 Timothy 2:11-13: "Faithful is the saying: for if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him; if we endure, we shall also reign with Him; if we shall deny Him, He also will deny us; if we are faithless, He abideth faithful, for He cannot deny Himself" (RV). This great sentence has rhythmical arrangement; its parts balance each other as in genuine parallelism; it is as poetical in its structure as 1 Timothy 3:16. But yet it is not the fragment of a hymn, nor a brief creed, nor yet a liturgical fragment, although it has been called all these. The words, "faithful is the saying" seem to denote a quotation, but in the other places where they occur they cannot be thus understood (1 Timothy 1:15; 1 Timothy 3:1; 1 Timothy 4:9). All these 'sayings' of Paul in the Pastoral Epistles belong to a time of extreme danger and persecution. These Letters were written in martyr times. Nero’s persecution of Christians began in AD 64; it lasted till 68—four years of indescribable torture and suffering for the people of God. 1st and 2nd Timothy and Titus were written almost certainly after Nero’s atrocities had begun. The peril was that Christians would quail before the dreadful trial, that they would deny Christ. Hence Paul writes to these young ministers of the Gospel to be steadfast, faithful, true even in death.

Read in the light of martyr fires, his sayings glow with intensity of feeling, with the pathos and the entreaty of one who himself faces death as a witness for Christ. His words ring like a battle shout, like the sharp, abrupt orders of the commander on the field:—"Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life" (1 Timothy 6:12); "watch thou in all things, endure afflictions" (2 Timothy 4:5); "hold fast the form of sound words" (2 Timothy 1:13); "great is the mystery of godliness" (1 Timothy 3:16); "if we suffer with Him, we shall also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He also will deny us" (2 Timothy 2:12). Every one of these texts, and many more like them, have something of cadence; they ring like sharp steel, and there is a rhythm in their ring.

Accordingly, they are not fragments of hymns, nor short creeds, nor quotations of any sort. They are the impassioned words of Christ’s servant who appeals to his fellow-saints by the Spirit of God to hold fast, to fight bravely, and to hope to the end.There are fourteen songs in the Book of Revelation: Revelation 4:8,11; Revelation 5:9-10,12-13; Revelation 7:10,12; Revelation 11:8,17-18; Revelation 12:10-12; Revelation 15:3-4; Revelation 19:1,2,5-8. The American Revision of the Bible marks these songs [sets them apart typographically] as distinct and different from the rest of the Book. Sometimes these songs are cited as a justification for the use of other songs than the Psalms in God’s worship. Let the following points be noted as a reply to the assertion referred to:

1. These songs are all inspired by the Spirit of God. More than any other Book of the New Testament Canon, the Revelation insists on its being from God, that in it God unveils His purpose touching the future of this world, of His people, of their enemies, and of His Kingdom. Therefore these inspired songs can afford no ground whatever for the use of uninspired compositions in the worship of God.

2. They are sung almost exclusively by angels and glorified saints. The only apparent exception is Revelation 5:13—the song of creation. But even this does not contradict our statement. The voices of angels and saints are joined by the voice of creation, animate and inanimate, now made vocal in its praise to the Lamb. The tuneful utterances of the glorified and of angels before the Throne hardly belong to sinful mortals on earth.

3. They are sung in heaven. Hence, they do not pertain to this world.

4. There is not a shadow of a hint that these and the like songs in the New Testament are divinely authorized to be employed in the worship of Christ’s Church.

5. They are an essential part in the structure of the Apocalypse; they move within the circle of those mighty events which mark the winding up of the world’s affairs, which characterize the final struggle between the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness. Hence, in the judgment of some of the most earnest students of the Book, they do not pertain to this dispensation.
 
I think our friend, Brakel based his opinion on the same thing as well, don’t you think:rolleyes:

Brother, as you surely know I dearly love Brakel but the study of Biblical languages have far surpassed the era that he penned his magnum opus. We are also spoiled by the amount of ancient documents, archaeological findings, and research that are available to us. This is no fault to him. We are very blessed in this regard.
 
Brother, as you surely know I dearly love Brakel but the study of Biblical languages have far surpassed the era that he penned his magnum opus. We are also spoiled by the amount of ancient documents, archaeological findings, and research that are available to us. This is no fault to him. We are very blessed in this regard.

Robert,

Do you personally find the Psalms sufficient for the singing element of worship? It appears you are not EP, or maybe just wrestling with it as I continue to do, but do you feel that not singing the uninspired hymns leaves EPers missing something not already expressed more perfectly in the Psalms?
 
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