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Seems to me there is some "letter vs spirit" of the law practice going on. But again, that's my own scruples.
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If I'm understanding it correctly, there is someone standing at the time when the congregation is to sing the songs and is humming the tune rather than saying the words. The effect in the mind of the listener as they read along will be the same as if they are being read. But technically, they are not being read. Hence the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law
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I am the Precentor in our Church (a role I've only held for five weeks)
We are using Reverend Ruddells psalms and midi file tune allocations and its working well.
We make vocalised learning material of the psalms each week in advance to aid the singing.
We also make sheet music so the lyrics fit the tunes for ease of sight reading.
This way the sopranos and altos already know the tunes and help with the singing.
My main job is the tempo and I've been told to slow it down a bit as I'm too fast.
We sing from the back of the congregation where we usually sit for the service.
Our church is small, no need for a microphone.
Thank you so much Reverend Ruddell for your excellent material,
It has been a real blessing to our new congregation,
As well, from what I have seen from Greenville FCoSC, their precentor just would verbalized the tunes of the first stanza, first.
In the one congregation I've visited in the past that from time to time had a female precentor that swapped on and off with some male precentors, no, I did not find it any more difficult or easy.Jeri Tanner said:I'd be interested in hearing from you men- do you, or would you find it easier to quickly find the note and key of the psalm when taking your cue from a male voice?
This is correct. This is also how it is done in the North Carolina preaching station.TylerRay said:At the FCC in Greenville, the Pastor reads the first few lines of the Psalm, and then the precentor hums the first few notes. If I am not mistaken, he does this from his seat in the congregation. The same practice is followed in my own congregation, except that the precentor goes up front to precent. The only one reading any scripture aloud by himself is the pastor.
As well, from what I have seen from Greenville FCoSC, their precentor just would verbalized the tunes of the first stanza, first.
Scott,
At the FCC in Greenville, the Pastor reads the first few lines of the Psalm, and then the precentor hums the first few notes. If I am not mistaken, he does this from his seat in the congregation. The same practice is followed in my own congregation, except that the precentor goes up front to precent. The only one reading any scripture aloud by himself is the pastor.
Judges 4:9, "notwithstanding the journey that thou takest shall not be for thine honour; for the Lord shall sell Sisera into the hand of a woman."
The problem is not in a woman doing it, but in the men not doing it.
For the congregation with a person playing a flute, that person cannot sing; and the person playing a piano can sing, but not with all their concentration. So the commanded worship is left undone for the sake of meeting an aesthetic preference.
so there may be some reason to prefer a male precentor to a female one merely for the sake of order, decency, and avoiding scandal.
As well, from what I have seen from Greenville FCoSC, their precentor just would verbalized the tunes of the first stanza, first.
Scott,
At the FCC in Greenville, the Pastor reads the first few lines of the Psalm, and then the precentor hums the first few notes. If I am not mistaken, he does this from his seat in the congregation. The same practice is followed in my own congregation, except that the precentor goes up front to precent. The only one reading any scripture aloud by himself is the pastor.
Hey Tyler,
Yes, thats the way I understood it though you couldn't tell from the incoherent post from me earlier...I've never been good at typing on my phone; especially while driving. Doh!
I'd be interested in hearing from you men- do you, or would you find it easier to quickly find the note and key of the psalm when taking your cue from a male voice?
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But theological issues aside, I find it nearly impossible to follow a female song leader, especially if it is one with a soprano type voice.
In my opinion this is all straining at gnats.
I seriously don't understand why you guys who go to church which don't use pianos to start you off on the right key just don't have your pastor to lead the singing. Todd Ruddell stated the precentor wouldn't have to have an exceptional voice to be one that way no one would be bent out of shape if the first voice they hear is a woman's. There! Problem solved!
I seriously don't understand why you guys who go to church which don't use pianos to start you off on the right key just don't have your pastor to lead the singing. Todd Ruddell stated the precentor wouldn't have to have an exceptional voice to be one that way no one would be bent out of shape if the first voice they hear is a woman's. There! Problem solved!
To tell you the truth I think this is the answer. BTW I attend a church which uses more than pianos.
Question for the historians here....When did the use of nonordained persons leading worship start in strict RPW churches start? I cannot imagine Pastor John Knox using a precentor, or did he?
Originally the Precentor appears to have been simply the Minister’s substitute for conducting one part of public worship, and this is his true position still. He was generally the Session-clerk or schoolmaster. Obviously, then, his election devolves on the minister — a plan that may be adopted with the greatest propriety in the absence of any new or specific law, and a plan, also, which will prevent much disturbance in congregations.
The problem is not necessarily tied to leadership, the case of conscience arises when you read verses like "As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says". As some pointed out, I agree, they can do a better job than guys as precenters, just as I am sure they can be better theologians than a teaching elder, which doesn't give them the right to teach tough.
; )
And yet women are allowed to sing, recite the prayer of repentance, and recite the creeds. So most likely when it tells the women to be silent in the church it's speaking to teaching, leading of prayer, and having authority over the church not to not participate in the church's activities.