Do you plan on celebrating Christmas?

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I loathe the spectacle of Christmas, I am that guy who hates the trees, music, the smell of peppermint, and the sentimentality. That said I cannot muster any objection to a church choosing to highlight the incarnation in December or choosing hymns and psalms that highlight the promise of the Messiah.
 
I'll endeavor to honor my Lord by observing his ordinances this winter, and I won't dishonor him by observing the ordinances of Antichrist.
 
No, I do not. I would, however, caution against condemning all Christmas-observers as non-Reformed. Now, don't get me wrong, holy days are contrary to the Westminster Confession - that point is beyond all reasonable dispute. That said, other branches of the Reformed tradition have (at the very least) tolerated Christmas and Easter. Still, that is no excuse for modern Presbyterians observing 25 December as a holy day.
 
Ultimately, this is exactly what Aaron did while his brother was up on the mount in their creating the golden calf. Ex 32.

Jer 10:1-5, Isaiah 44:12-28.
 
"Many think it a strange thing for men not to pay regard to such festivals; Why may not we keep the birth of our Saviour? Now, that you may not think it so, do but consider this, that when God has set apart any thing for a holy use, it is no strange thing; but it would be strange in man to venture to imitate God in the things of his worship, to do that in God’s worship which God himself has done before. Thus God has set apart a holy time, viz. the sabbath; it is set apart to solemnize the whole work of redemption, the nativity of Christ, his life, death, resurrection,m ascension, and the coming of the Holy Ghost; God, I say, has set the sabbath apart that we might have a holy-day to keep the remembrance of them all. Now, when God has appointed one day, for man to dare to venture to set another apart, this is presumption." "--Jeremiah Burroughs, Exposition of Hosea 1–3 (1643), 379.

As far as ecclesiastical observance, what Jeremiah Burroughs says on pretended holy days, can not the same be said for services that carve out acts of redemption when God Himself has set a day to observe them all? If that were insufficient (which is rather blasphemous to think); wouldn't He have left directive to know which and what acts to highlight, since that could easily have been expressed in Scripture? Why does Christ's birth get a service but not the sending of the Holy Ghost? And the fact the church has more than tended to turn such observances to will worship and idolatry should give pause to continuing such practices (not to mention the argument from the necessity of putting away monuments of idolatry). Whether such services are volountary or not, thought specifically more holy than other times the church gathers or not, is not the mere perpetual highlighting of one act over another where the Lord has given no such prescription, presumption against God's prerogatives regarding His worship? And as I say, we see what the tendency is; even a leader in modern Presbyterianism like RC Sproul speaks like an anglocatholic on this subject.
 
"Many think it a strange thing for men not to pay regard to such festivals; Why may not we keep the birth of our Saviour? Now, that you may not think it so, do but consider this, that when God has set apart any thing for a holy use, it is no strange thing; but it would be strange in man to venture to imitate God in the things of his worship, to do that in God’s worship which God himself has done before. Thus God has set apart a holy time, viz. the sabbath; it is set apart to solemnize the whole work of redemption, the nativity of Christ, his life, death, resurrection,m ascension, and the coming of the Holy Ghost; God, I say, has set the sabbath apart that we might have a holy-day to keep the remembrance of them all. Now, when God has appointed one day, for man to dare to venture to set another apart, this is presumption." "--Jeremiah Burroughs, Exposition of Hosea 1–3 (1643), 379.

As far as ecclesiastical observance, what Jeremiah Burroughs says on pretended holy days, can not the same be said for services that carve out acts of redemption when God Himself has set a day to observe them all? If that were insufficient (which is rather blasphemous to think); wouldn't He have left directive to know which and what acts to highlight, since that could easily have been expressed in Scripture? Why does Christ's birth get a service but not the sending of the Holy Ghost? And the fact the church has more than tended to turn such observances to will worship and idolatry should give pause to continuing such practices (not to mention the argument from the necessity of putting away monuments of idolatry). Whether such services are volountary or not, thought specifically more holy than other times the church gathers or not, is not the mere perpetual highlighting of one act over another where the Lord has given no such prescription, presumption against God's prerogatives regarding His worship? And as I say, we see what the tendency is; even a leader in modern Presbyterianism like RC Sproul speaks like an anglocatholic on this subject.

I wonder if the main confusion is arising on this issue is the observance of Dec. 25th in the non-ecclesiastical sense? I think most of here understand that to call a worship service, as an obligation, on Dec. 25 is not to be done. I think what "Mockett shows the Christian how he is to reject, whole-heartily, adding Christ into Christmas as a religious or worship observance." Personally I have trouble explaining how Presbyterianism is substantially different than Baptist, RC, and any other denomination so far as Christmas is concerned in the setting outside of the ecclesiastical.

I personally remember my former Uncle Gwendal who died 30 or so years ago(PCUSA) who seemed to be not religious because he did not do christmas. What I am saying is that I wish Uncle Gwendal told me why he did not do such, so that I did not look at him as a Scrooge.
 
I am sure anyone who works in retail can attest that it is such a disgusting holiday.
I celebrate it (sort of) because of my family. If I was away from them or whatever, I wouldn't celebrate it.
 
I wouldn't even begin with that it should never be called; it obviously has been done by Puritans and Presbyterians as they felt occasion warranted; but it would not be a service most would be used to I'm pretty sure. The problem is treating the two issues together; the superstitious observers won't separate them but those seeking reform should because they involve different authorities and different principles. The PCUS had the dinosaurs that were still condemning the calendar as late as 1950. However, the cultural observance outside of puritan new england in the south was more English; the Presbyterians if they observed any custom it was without any religious significance. That all changed in the mid to late 19th century. But, there's plenty of old threads on this. My deal is get it out of the church and as the folks are instructed the cultural will come along at the pace it needs to with each individual and family.
I wonder if the main confusion is arising on this issue is the observance of Dec. 25th in the non-ecclesiastical sense? I think most of here understand that to call a worship service, as an obligation, on Dec. 25 is not to be done. I think what "Mockett shows the Christian how he is to reject, whole-heartily, adding Christ into Christmas as a religious or worship observance." Personally I have trouble explaining how Presbyterianism is substantially different than Baptist, RC, and any other denomination so far as Christmas is concerned in the setting outside of the ecclesiastical.

I personally remember my former Uncle Gwendal who died 30 or so years ago(PCUSA) who seemed to be not religious because he did not do christmas. What I am saying is that I wish Uncle Gwendal told me why he did not do such, so that I did not look at him as a Scrooge.
 
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with gusto! not at church though.

The only time I get to sing Christmas carols is with a large retinue of unbelievers at Davies Symphony Hall every December. There is a SF Girls' Chorus Christmas concert there every year, and we go, because one of my daughters is in that chorus. I love these hymns and find it sad that I never get to sing them with my believing brothers and sisters.

But, I'll live.
 
Ultimately, this is exactly what Aaron did while his brother was up on the mount in their creating the golden calf. Ex 32.

Jer 10:1-5, Isaiah 44:12-28.

Soooo.... churches that commemorate the incarnation in December, and families that do trees, gifts, decorations, etc. are idolaters?


Seems to be the inexorable logic of some on here. Personally, if before the throne, the primary knock on my sanctification was that I celebrated the incarnation unnecessarily in December, I'll be overjoyed that I'd attained that degree of earthly sanctity.

If someone wants to follow the DPW to the degree of forsaking all holidays, that is their conviction, and I see nothing untoward about the grounds and motivation for it. I think some in the Reformed community could stand to extend a little grace to people who don't share that conviction, given the grounds and motivation for observation of the "season".
 
It is never, ever idolatrous to read Scripture about the Incarnation, to pray thinking on it, or to sing of it. It is a glorious joy. Anytime. Our church does this year round really, with special emphasis in December. Men may call me an idolator, but God does not.

"Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things."

We think on these things with wonder, merriment, humility and love. What an astounding gift and grace our God has given us in Jesus: birth, life, death and resurrection and reign. All excellent things, worthy of praise, all the time. Even in December. :)
 
This is a delicate topic, so I want to tread here carefully. The question that is before us is this however: "Can the worship of the true God ever be done in an idolatrous fashion?"

The answer (as can be proven from the Scriptures) is YES.

If this follows, then we must take great care and pains to examine our motivations, and source for our worship.

No one has given a satisfactory basis in this thread for the command to celebrate a Holy Day that is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures. None will be forthcoming of course, because there is none.

I understand that some here don't feel as if it is idolatrous to celebrate the day, but that's not the standard found in the Scripture. I have had to repent of any number of idolatrous things that felt "good" and "right" to me, but then the deeper that I examined my motives and the Scriptural basis for those things, the more I found that I was engaged in something that is ultimately not God honoring. Ask any Roman Catholic who feels compelled to go to the Mass - they would be shocked if you called it idolatry. Their feelings have no real basis in the matter as far as God is concerned - our hearts are deceitfully wicked since we still have indwelling sin in us. If you haven't truly come to grips with the fact that your own heart is deceitful, that your own heart is wicked; it will be very hard to be confronted with the Scriptures when you cherish something dearly.

But we can see the idolatry and declension that has come upon this day - just a look at a Nativity Scene some time. Besides the blatant 2nd Commandment violation, it transfixes Jesus as the helpless baby at Mary's side (a very common theme in the Roman Catholic Church).

I don't say these things to exalt myself and to tear my brothers and sisters on this thread down - for I know that much sin dwells within me, and I have by no means arrived. These same brothers and sisters will be able to teach me much about walking closer with Christ in other ways, I have no doubt.

But I say this so that God would be glorified, and that by tearing these ceremonial things away from my brothers and sisters, they would see Jesus more clearly without the baggage that is added by the traditions of men, and that they would enjoy God more fully. So please do not take these words in the wrong way, brethren.

There are many ways to honor our God-Man Redeemer who was born as the son of David, who even now reigns at the right hand of God the Father. There are many ways to serve our neighbor and to bring the hope of salvation in Christ to them. Let's use those appointed means, and avoid the ones made by man.

Matthew 15 - "These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men."
 
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It is pretty well known that Dr. Sproul disdains the traditional Reformed teaching on both the 2nd and 4th Commandments.

This is news to me. Could you please provide some proof?

.....and has a large painting of Kenny Loggins in the narthex of Saint Andrews to understand Dr. Sproul's thoughts on this.

I have personally seen Dan Fogelberg and Gregg Allman in various places.......

I greatly upset some folks in the SBC church I grew up in by asking a few years ago: "Why do you have a picture of a blue-eyed Robert Plant look-a-like dressed up as a sheppard in your church?"
 
The question that is before us is this however: "Can the worship of the true God ever be done in an idolatrous fashion?"

The answer (as can be proven from the Scriptures) is YES.

I do agree with that proposition. However...

Let me make clear that my statements below do not address any comments which have been made on this thread. But they do deal with comments I have seen on this subject in prior years.

If a pastor deliberately orders his preaching to avoid any mention of the birth of Christ during the period between the civil observation of Thanksgiving and the end of the year, he probably should examine himself to make sure that he isn't making the avoidance of the subject an idol.
 
If someone wants to follow the DPW to the degree of forsaking all holidays, that is their conviction, and I see nothing untoward about the grounds and motivation for it. I think some in the Reformed community could stand to extend a little grace to people who don't share that conviction, given the grounds and motivation for observation of the "season".

The Lord shall judge the motivation of the act. The "act" of celebrating is sinful no matter what the motivation is. Now in saying this, love does indeed cover a multitude of sin, and I am blessed my brothers and sisters, especially my wife, look past my sinful acts though they realize those "sinful acts" are still sin.
 
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It is pretty well known that Dr. Sproul disdains the traditional Reformed teaching on both the 2nd and 4th Commandments.

This is news to me. Could you please provide some proof?

.....and has a large painting of Kenny Loggins in the narthex of Saint Andrews to understand Dr. Sproul's thoughts on this.

I have personally seen Dan Fogelberg and Gregg Allman in various places.......

My favorite are the framed pictures of Ewan McGregor from Episode 1.

"Save us Obi Wan"
 
Personally, if before the throne, the primary knock on my sanctification was that I celebrated the incarnation unnecessarily in December, I'll be overjoyed that I'd attained that degree of earthly sanctity.

That might work if you could live to yourself and die to yourself, but the reality is our actions bear witness to others and influence their lives in ways for which we must give an account.

Something indifferent that has been abused to idolatry should be laid aside for the simple reason that it has an immoral influence on others. Since it is regarded as indifferent it can be laid aside. Since it has a bad effect on others it should be laid aside. It ceases to be indifferent the moment it is understood to have a bad use.
 
No one has given a satisfactory basis in this thread for the command to celebrate a Holy Day that is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures...
I have never in my entire life seen anyone declare that there is a "command" to observe Christmas, and I have only seen an ignorant few refer to it as a "holy" day. Perhaps there are some people who do that, but I've never seen them, and I've been a Christian for 33 years and attended a large variety of churches in that time: mainline Methodist, over-the-top ultra-charistmatic, Pre-millennial Pre-trib Dispensationalist, conservative Presbyterian, and so on. I'm not sure exactly who you're arguing against, but to my knowledge no one says we are "commanded" to observe Christmas or that it should be treated as a "holy" day. At least no one within the churches and teachers I've seen.

Do any but a tiny percentage of people view any holiday as a "Holy Day?" Regardless of the etymology of the word "holiday," it hasn't meant "holy day" in western culture for a very long time. A holiday is merely a day that some group of people celebrate something, remember something, do some traditional activity, or the like. I doubt you'll find many who ascribe some sort of spiritual significance to any given calendar day, regardless of what they're celebrating on that particular day. I'm sure there are some, but I doubt there are many, at least not among believers. If, however, someone believes he is commanded to observe Christmas, or views it as a "holy" day, then he is wrong and should repent of that, but are there really many believers who think that? I don't know. Maybe there are. I've just never encountered them in the church. Catholics, maybe?

I can understand those who have convictions against "Christmas" and "Christmas Eve" themed church services, and I can respect those who do not wish to participate in any Christmas traditions, whether secular or religious. However, that's quite a different thing than those whom I've encountered over the years who declare that anyone who has a decorated tree, sings songs about snow, or gives their kids some wrapped presents on 12/25 is somehow dishonoring Christ and idolatrous. It puzzles me; it is something I truly don't understand.
 
At least no one within the churches and teachers I've seen.

The church must surely be bigger than this. There are obviously Christian churches who maintain the day is holy and appoint it to be observed by their own authority. Even if your church has separated from such churches, you are obliged to explain why you have separated from them and to seek their restoration to true order.
 
No one has given a satisfactory basis in this thread for the command to celebrate a Holy Day that is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures...
I have never in my entire life seen anyone declare that there is a "command" to observe Christmas, and I have only seen an ignorant few refer to it as a "holy" day. Perhaps there are some people who do that, but I've never seen them, and I've been a Christian for 33 years and attended a large variety of churches in that time: mainline Methodist, over-the-top ultra-charistmatic, Pre-millennial Pre-trib Dispensationalist, conservative Presbyterian, and so on. I'm not sure exactly who you're arguing against, but to my knowledge no one says we are "commanded" to observe Christmas or that it should be treated as a "holy" day. At least no one within the churches and teachers I've seen.

It's puzzling you say this, because my experience is completely opposite to yours - and only being a Christian for about 8 years. There are many people in the Church that do maintain it. Here is R.C Sproul, a man who is not ignorant and a fine theologian, and what he has to say. From the article linked below:
"Christmas is a holiday, indeed the world’s most joyous holiday. It is called a “holiday” because the day is holy."

http://www.ligonier.org/blog/dont-be-scrooge-christmas/?aref=SS

Perhaps you need to get out more? :)
 
I celebrate Christmas for family time, presents, the beautiful tree and lights. I don't believe it has any more to do with Christ than the other holidays which I also celebrate except for Easter. I don't recall ever celebrating Easter even as a child.

Ditto...

That reminds me, I've got to put the tree up soon. :)

We put ours up a few days after Thanksgiving. I love decorating the tree. One year I played Pink Floyd while decorating it I was already tired of the xmas music lol.

The song "Money," obviously. LOL
 
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