Matt Maher is Roman Catholic???

[thistle93]

One of my favorite new songs out there is one by Matt Maher entitled "Lord, I Need You".

In case you are not familiar with it here are the words:
Lord, I come, I confess
Bowing here I find my rest
Without You I fall apart
You're the One that guides my heart

Lord, I need You, oh, I need You
Every hour I need You
My one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You

Where sin runs deep Your grace is more
Where grace is found is where You are
And where You are, Lord, I am free
Holiness is Christ in me

Lord, I need You, oh, I need You
Every hour I need You
My one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You

Teach my song to rise to You
When temptation comes my way
And when I cannot stand I'll fall on You
Jesus, You're my hope and stay

Lord, I need You, oh, I need You
Every hour I need You
My one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You

You're my one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You
My one defense, my righteousness
Oh God, how I need You

So I was shocked to find out that Matt Maher is a Roman Catholic. This does not seem like Roman Catholic doctrine to me. I think this sounds a lot like reformed doctrine. While Roman doctrine is not becoming more reformed or evangelical do you think that some individual Roman Catholics are and if so why stay Roman Catholic?

For His Glory-
Matthew

 

[JML]

I have found that with most CCM music, artists will sing whatever they think will sell regardless of how Biblical the doctrine. So it does not surprise me that a Catholic would sing that song.

 

[hammondjones]

I read an interview where he said that he raises his child half the time Catholic, half the time Methodist, and that he was saved through the Catholic Charismatic Renewal movement. It might lead to you wonder if he quite understands what the fuss is all about.

He also co-wrote "Your Grace is Enough" with Chris Tomlin. I guess for him that really means "Your Grace is Enough for Me.... to Obtain the Joy of Heaven, Which is God's Eternal Reward for the Good Works Accomplished with the Grace of Christ."

 

[Jake]

I have found that with most CCM music, artists will sing whatever they think will sell regardless of how Biblical the doctrine. So it does not surprise me that a Catholic would sing that song.

I cannot speak for Matt Maher, but there has been some suspicious stuff in that regard with the non-Trinitarian Phillips, Craig, & Dean: Alpha&Omega Ministries: PCD

 

[Ephrata]

It may be possible that he was raised Roman Catholic, yet has actually read the Bible. The Lord may have used it to change his heart and his doctrine from the usual dogmas, although he still labels himself as a Catholic out of convenience or ignorance. I've seen a few precious souls who have done so, even though their theology is actually very Reformed. It's confusing, but heartening.

 

[Jake]

It may be possible that he was raised Roman Catholic, yet has actually read the Bible. The Lord may have used it to change his heart and his doctrine from the usual dogmas, although he still labels himself as a Catholic out of convenience or ignorance. I've seen a few precious souls who have done so, even though their theology is actually very Reformed. It's confusing, but heartening.

It seems as though (at least within the past five years) he is an active part of the Romanist Church.
Matt Maher Interview

 

[JML]

Nonetheless, I was disappointed to hear this. He does have a great voice and is a talented musician.

 

[Ken_lamb]

Matt Maher and Audrey Asad attend a "bible believing" Catholic Church here in Arizona.

I don't doubt his sincerity, but I suspect there are some doctrinal issues nonetheless.

A dear friend of mine is deeply involved in an ecumenical movement here in AZ that is trying to bring together believers under the broad umbrella of the Apostles Creed, including Catholics and other denominations that I would consider to have abandoned God's word. Both Matt Maher and Audrey Asad have led worship there and I admit that I was moved.

I appreciate their call for Christian unity, but early on had concerns about the broad basis of that unity. I pray that God will bring correct discernment in such matters. Someone is right and someone is wrong, I pray that we find ourselves in agreeance with God, rather than men.

 

[Hemustincrease]

He is both Catholic and ecumenical. CCM bands/musicians are all either Catholic themselves or perfectly content to approve the teaching of Rome. (Is it possible to hold to the truth of Scripture and have anything to do with CCM, let alone be smack in the middle of it??? I would say emphatically ‘no’.)

 

[Rom]

I am as EP as it comes (in worship) - but can it really be proven that CCM bands are "either Catholic" or "perfectly content to approve the teaching of Rome"? That seems like a pretty severe and serious charge. I don't even listen to the stuff, but that sounds like it might be too broad of a brush.

He is both Catholic and ecumenical. CCM bands/musicians are all either Catholic themselves or perfectly content to approve the teaching of Rome. (Is it possible to hold to the truth of Scripture and have anything to do with CCM, let alone be smack in the middle of it??? I would say emphatically ‘no’.)

 

[Hemustincrease]

I am as EP as it comes (in worship) - but can it really be proven that CCM bands are "either Catholic" or "perfectly content to approve the teaching of Rome"? That seems like a pretty severe and serious charge. I don't even listen to the stuff, but that sounds like it might be too broad of a brush.

He is both Catholic and ecumenical. CCM bands/musicians are all either Catholic themselves or perfectly content to approve the teaching of Rome. (Is it possible to hold to the truth of Scripture and have anything to do with CCM, let alone be smack in the middle of it??? I would say emphatically ‘no’.)

If anybody is able to provide evidence of a CCM musician who is not involved (in some kind of supportive/approving/condoning manner) with Catholics (as well as various other heresies), I’ll happily retract my statement and replace it with ‘all CCM bands/musicians except.........., are either Catholic themselves or perfectly content to support the teaching of Rome.’

 

[Hamalas]

I think we'd have to define what qualifies someone as a "CCM musician" first.

 

[Hemustincrease]

Matt Maher: Building the One-World Church Through Music | CCM

David Wang says Maher is “one of the most successful Catholic artists to cross over into mainstream Christian rock and find an audience among evangelicals” (“Catholic Rocker Matt Maher,” Religion News Service, May 17, 2013).

Maher, who tours with non-Catholics, comments:

“What’s fantastic about it is we’re all Christians from different denominations and we’re learning to understand each other. It just means that we’re writing about mysteries that we don’t fully understand.”

Maher is on the board of directors for the Catholic youth organization Life Teen.

He calls himself a “musical missionary,” a missionary for Rome, that is. Christianity Today says “Maher is bringing his music--and a dream of unity into the Protestant church” (“Common Bonds,” CT, Oct. 27, 2009). He says, “I’ve had co-writing sessions with Protestants where we had that common denominator, and I’ve seen in a very radical way the real possibility of unity.” He says, “I look at it like the Catholic church is my immediate family, and all my friends from different denominations are extended family.”

 

[Rom]

Fortunately, I do not believe that is the standard of proof required by the 9th commandment.

I am as EP as it comes (in worship) - but can it really be proven that CCM bands are "either Catholic" or "perfectly content to approve the teaching of Rome"? That seems like a pretty severe and serious charge. I don't even listen to the stuff, but that sounds like it might be too broad of a brush.

He is both Catholic and ecumenical. CCM bands/musicians are all either Catholic themselves or perfectly content to approve the teaching of Rome. (Is it possible to hold to the truth of Scripture and have anything to do with CCM, let alone be smack in the middle of it??? I would say emphatically ‘no’.)

If anybody is able to provide evidence of a CCM musician who is not involved (in some kind of supportive/approving/condoning manner) with Catholics (as well as various other heresies), I’ll happily retract my statement and replace it with ‘all CCM bands/musicians except.........., are either Catholic themselves or perfectly content to support the teaching of Rome.’

 

[Hemustincrease]

I think we'd have to define what qualifies someone as a "CCM musician" first.

This seems to me to be a good definition. Or at least a good assessment of the characteristics which CCM music (and by default the musicians) all share in common.

1. Contemporary Christian Music is worldly music.

2. Contemporary Christian Music is ecumenical music.

3. Contemporary Christian Music is charismatic music.

4. Contemporary Christian Music weakens the fundamentalist stance of a church.

This definition was taken from the following page. David Cloud might not be Calvinist, but he hits the nail on the head when it comes to CCM (In my humble opinion).
Why We Are Opposed to CCM

 

[Hemustincrease]

Fortunately, I do not believe that is the standard of proof required by the 9th commandment.

You suggested I was ‘broad brushing’. I don’t believe that I am. If you doubt the veracity of my statement then it surely behooves you to present some evidence to back that doubt up with.

 

[Ken_lamb]

I think we'd have to define what qualifies someone as a "CCM musician" first.

This seems to me to be a good definition. Or at least a good assessment of the characteristics which CCM music (and by default the musicians) all share in common.

1. Contemporary Christian Music is worldly music.

2. Contemporary Christian Music is ecumenical music.

3. Contemporary Christian Music is charismatic music.

4. Contemporary Christian Music weakens the fundamentalist stance of a church.

This definition was taken from the following page. David Cloud might not be Calvinist, but he hits the nail on the head when it comes to CCM (In my humble opinion).
Why We Are Opposed to CCM

Please define music that is not of this world.

Is it ecumenical by definition or by tendency?

In what way is ccm music charismatic? Speaking in tongues, prophecy, faith healing? Is it because it is passionate? What about classical music?

The fourth point would seen contingent on the validity of the other points, since no further description is provided.

 

[Hemustincrease]

I think we'd have to define what qualifies someone as a "CCM musician" first.

This seems to me to be a good definition. Or at least a good assessment of the characteristics which CCM music (and by default the musicians) all share in common.

1. Contemporary Christian Music is worldly music.

2. Contemporary Christian Music is ecumenical music.

3. Contemporary Christian Music is charismatic music.

4. Contemporary Christian Music weakens the fundamentalist stance of a church.

This definition was taken from the following page. David Cloud might not be Calvinist, but he hits the nail on the head when it comes to CCM (In my humble opinion).
Why We Are Opposed to CCM

Please define music that is not of this world.

Is it ecumenical by definition or by tendency?

In what way is ccm music charismatic? Speaking in tongues, prophecy, faith healing? Is it because it is passionate? What about classical music?

The fourth point would seen contingent on the validity of the other points, since no further description is provided.

The link I shared answers all your questions.

 

[Ken_lamb]

Fortunately, I do not believe that is the standard of proof required by the 9th commandment.

You suggested I was ‘broad brushing’. I don’t believe that I am. If you doubt the veracity of my statement then it surely behooves you to present some evidence to back that doubt up with.

Jo, while I appreciate your distaste for CCM generally -and I'm confident my brother Rom does as well- the onus would not be on us to prove that everyone who might be associated with the undefinable genre that is CCM is not RC friendly. Rather, the onus would be on you, who says that each and every one of them is, to prove such.

I agree.

 

[Hemustincrease]

Fortunately, I do not believe that is the standard of proof required by the 9th commandment.

You suggested I was ‘broad brushing’. I don’t believe that I am. If you doubt the veracity of my statement then it surely behooves you to present some evidence to back that doubt up with.

Jo, while I appreciate your distaste for CCM generally -and I'm confident my brother Rom does as well- the onus would not be on us to prove that everyone who might be associated with that undefinable genre that is CCM is not RC friendly. Rather, the onus would be on you, who says that each and every one of them is, to prove such.

Perhaps so (I concede) but surely it would be far less time and thread consuming, for those who doubt what I have said, to just come up with one CCM band/musician who is positively not affiliated in anyway with Catholics? It would require page after page after page for me to list every single CCM musician and demonstrate their affiliation with Catholics.

 

[Rom]

The point of God's commandments isn't for our convenience. It is for the good of His People, and their protection. Particularly those who might be unfairly slandered by our accusations. I know there are many even on this board who have mentioned a deep appreciation for Calvinist Christian Rap artists (I am not a fan of rap as a genre, so again I have no comment on their music). And these phrases being used "affiliated in any way" are exceedingly broad and can be distorted quite readily. I have Catholic friends, are are my in-laws, am I now suddenly someone "affiliated with Catholics"?

I say this as one who is guilty, even daily, of breaking the 9th commandment . Look at how an accusation must be received against someone in Scripture. And an accusation of being Catholic, or in league to further the aims of the Roman Church is to say that one is in league with those who promote a false gospel, and are actively attempting to work against it and are therefore accursed. Serious allegations indeed, so we should try to temper ourselves when it comes to that sort of rhetoric.

(And Josh is right, I share no love for CCM )

 

[Hemustincrease]

And an accusation of being Catholic, or in league to further the aims of the Roman Church is to say that one is in league with those who promote a false gospel, and are actively attempting to work against it and are therefore accursed. Serious allegations indeed, so we should try to temper ourselves when it comes to that sort of rhetoric.

I agree. These things are indeed very serious. I was perhaps not wise to make such a dogmatic and all encompassing statement. For the sake of the thread and ease of understanding all comments, I won’t go back and erase it. But I will offer a retraction of it here.

That said, I also remain convinced in my own mind, that CCM is something believers should be opposing, for the reasons already shared (which certainly include the affiliation with Catholic heresy).

 

[Ken_lamb]

I will confess that early in my walk, I found much comfort in various Christian music that I found on the radio. It played a role in softening my heart as I was very deep in despair. I did eventually confess my sins and repent and trust in Jesus as my Lord and Savior.

After about 6 years of attending non-denominational mega churchs with rock band worship, I now find myself in a small liturgical PCA church.

I can't say theoretically what could have or should have happened, I just know the path that God used to bring me to Christian orthodoxy involved CCM and mega churches.

Today however, I rarely listen to CCM and I am very pleased with the reverent worship of my new church.

Now I'm not suggesting that we start off all new believers on KLOVE and send them all to mega churches until they are ready for real meat and Christian orthodoxy, I'm just saying how it worked for me.

I do however listen to quite a bit of Indelible Grace Music, which is a ministry of Reformed University Fellowship, and incorporates old hymns to more contemporary music. I also listen to some reformed hip hop artists such as Shai Linne and iSix:5. Though I would never consider them forms of personal or corporate worship.

 

[Rom]

And an accusation of being Catholic, or in league to further the aims of the Roman Church is to say that one is in league with those who promote a false gospel, and are actively attempting to work against it and are therefore accursed. Serious allegations indeed, so we should try to temper ourselves when it comes to that sort of rhetoric.

I agree. These things are indeed very serious. I was perhaps not wise to make such a dogmatic and all encompassing statement. For the sake of the thread and ease of understanding all comments, I won’t go back and erase it. But I will offer a retraction of it here.

Is it not so wonderful that we as Christians can have these conversations with charity, grace, love and understanding? I look at the interactions we have here on this board, and then contrast it with those boards that I am on that do not know God, and I always reflect upon how wonderful it is to be one of God's Own! Much love in Christ to you, sister

 

[Free Christian]

Hello Mathew. Many bands today incorporate Christian themes into their music. A few years ago someone released a song that sounded like the person was saved, my wife commented "is he saved now?" His next release proved otherwise. On another thread I stated how the SDA's now use references to being in lineage to the Reformers. One could be forgiven if they were none the wiser to their true background into thinking they were right on track if they heard some single sermons where these references are made where in fact they are very far from it. Songs can be the same.

 

[ZackF]

How things have changed since the mid-90's when Rich Mullins put off conversion to Rome being afraid of losing recording contracts. He ended up dying before he entered the RCC. His RCC spiritual advisor was my pastor at the time.

 

[Hamalas]

How about Steven Curtis Chapman, Keith and Kristen Getty (who actually refused to allow the PCUSA to use their song "In Christ Alone" because the denomination wanted to change the words to fit their unorthodox view of the atonement), Christ Rice, Tripp Lee, Flame, Shai Linne, Timothy Brindle, Cross Movement, Lacrae, etc...?

I don't listen to hardly any CCM anymore either (and don't really consider myself a friend to the movement per se) but the claims made above are overstating the case. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater or use our own anecdotal observations to harm the reputation of others.

 

[ZackF]

How about Steven Curtis Chapman, Keith and Kristen Getty (who actually refused to allow the PCUSA to use their song "In Christ Alone" because the denomination wanted to change the words to fit their unorthodox view of the atonement), Christ Rice, Tripp Lee, Flame, Shai Linne, Timothy Brindle, Cross Movement, Lacrae, etc...?

I don't listen to hardly any CCM anymore either (and don't really consider myself a friend to the movement per se) but the claims made above are overstating the case. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater or use our own anecdotal observations to harm the reputation of others.

Of course. It is about discernment and realizing the CCM is a movement and not a church under authority. Despite Mullins' intentions late in his life, most all of his music was solid and I still enjoy listening to it.

 

[Hamalas]

How about Steven Curtis Chapman, Keith and Kristen Getty (who actually refused to allow the PCUSA to use their song "In Christ Alone" because the denomination wanted to change the words to fit their unorthodox view of the atonement), Christ Rice, Tripp Lee, Flame, Shai Linne, Timothy Brindle, Cross Movement, Lacrae, etc...?

I don't listen to hardly any CCM anymore either (and don't really consider myself a friend to the movement per se) but the claims made above are overstating the case. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater or use our own anecdotal observations to harm the reputation of others.

Of course. It is about discernment and realizing the CCM is a movement and not a church under authority. Despite Mullins' intentions late in his life, most all of his music was solid and I still enjoy listening to it.

Agreed. And just so you know, my comment was not in response to your post brother.

 

[Jeri Tanner]

I'm really going to stick my neck out on this one, but it's ok because I'm old, and I'm an old musician, and I'm an old musician songwriter/performer who cut my "Christian songwriter" teeth on the precursor to CCM (Jesus music), and then continued on through the beginnings and early growth of CCM. I can tell you for a fact that the roots of the CCM tree are charismatic; by its nature it's friendly to like-minded entities (therefore to Rome). The Jesus music was birthed in the womb of the charismatic youth movement (Calvary Church in Costa Mesa). With it came the widespread practice of speaking in tongues and many varieties of direct revelation and mysticism (everybody was reading Watchman Nee!). The music was the vehicle that moved all this along! All the way to my little Southern Baptist church in Alabama in 1973. So I don't think Jo's views on the nature and leanings of CCM come out of nowhere. It doesn't mean that there are not sincere Christians who are writing and recording this type of music; but the entity itself is surely one that is largely friendly to charismatic/mystical leanings. It's really a fascinating subject. I realize that there is the valid question of who is and who is not part of this CCM industry—broadly speaking, those in the industry tend to be the artists who are promoted for radio play and who who aim to have their songs place high on the CCLI ratings to be used by churches for worship. That's just a quick, general and incomplete statement about this entity we're speaking of.