Are teens ready for deeper Reformed truths?
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Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
ReformedWretch
Puritan Board Doctor
Ah, but there are teens from terrible families that go to church. I guess I am sort of taking up for youth pastors. I am NOT for fun,games, and Pizza at church to bribe kids into coming to hear a bible story. I do however feel there is a need for youth ministries for those that are serious. Problem is, that may be few and far between.
I agree that focusing on youth is a good thing too PuritanBouncer.The issue I guess is how we focus on them and what manner of relations we take...trying to be a cool peer or speaking the truth in love to them even if we recognize that we are of another generation? I think that if we talk to them like adults they will usual act more like adults.
ReformedWretch
Puritan Board Doctor
from my experience, it's a mix.
You have to be "cool" without being lenient and accepting of wrong doing, etc. It's tough to do that, but I know it can be done, and people can be trained to do it as well but they have to WANT to do it.
I had many street kids sit and listen to doctrine and theology once they knew I loved them and wasn't a "stuffy" adult seeking that they bend to my will "just because". I feel we need youth pastors because people who pursue those positions "get" that as many adults simply don't.
You have to be "cool" without being lenient and accepting of wrong doing, etc. It's tough to do that, but I know it can be done, and people can be trained to do it as well but they have to WANT to do it.
I had many street kids sit and listen to doctrine and theology once they knew I loved them and wasn't a "stuffy" adult seeking that they bend to my will "just because". I feel we need youth pastors because people who pursue those positions "get" that as many adults simply don't.
B. B. Warfield: It is worth while to be a Shorter Catechism boy. They grow to be men. And better than that, they are exceedingly apt to grow to be men of God. So apt, that we cannot afford to have them miss the chance of it. “Train up a child in the way he should go, and even when he is old he will not depart from it.”
One thing that I have lamented in teaching many teenagers in the PCA and OPC was how ignorant they were of the Shorter Catechism. Every year the SoCal Presbytery of the OPC has a junior and high school retreat. The children were by and large well behaved and believed Christ but many were ignorant of the Catechism. There was a Catechism Jeopardy one evening and only about 4 kids out of the 200 present were able to accurately complete the answers to catechism questions.
I then taught Junior High boys a few years later at a PCA and was shocked that only one boy in the entire class had even a passing understanding of the Catechism. Worse, the man helping me to teach didn't feel equipped to teach the WSC to the boys. I had received permission to ditch the canned curriculum and simply teach the WSC to the young men and it was too difficult for the father helping me whose son was one of the boys in the class.
That kind of stuff really breaks my heart. I alerted the Session to this problem and encouraged them that there needed to be more effort to catechize the adults of the congregation. I'm a firm believer that if catechism isn't learned at home then it isn't learned. It's sad to say but my Biblical familiarity from being raised a devout Roman Catholic (with weekly mass and CCD) was better than many of my Evangelical counterparts when I first became an Evangelical.
TaylorOtwell
Puritan Board Junior
For what it's worth, I know an 18 year old girl who has Romans, Ephesians, James, the Sermon on the Mount, and the first 60 or so questions of the Shorter Catechism memorized. So, the Lord is doing some amazing things with some teenagers.
Also, as having just graduated college, I noticed that many professing young people are looking for something "deeper" than the hokeyness of many churches. I noticed that they were heading in generally one of two directions. Direction one: the emergent church. Direction two: Reformed theology.
Also, as having just graduated college, I noticed that many professing young people are looking for something "deeper" than the hokeyness of many churches. I noticed that they were heading in generally one of two directions. Direction one: the emergent church. Direction two: Reformed theology.
Mushroom
Puritan Board Doctor
My beloved bride has so thoroughly pumped the WSC into my kids I sometimes fear they recite it in their sleep. It is always amazing to me how much they retain. And when we read the creeds in worship, I'm the only one holding the Trinity Hymnal to be sure I say it right. I am grateful to God for providing such tools with which to train my covenant babes in His truths.
Reformed Christian
Puritan Board Freshman
Hi Adam,
First, I would say that the exception should never define the rule when it comes to our ministry model. Primarily God has ordained the home, not church programs and youth pastors, to teach children the scriptures and train them up to be godly men and women.
With that said, broken homes are a reality in the church. I know my solution will not be "popular," but I believe it is biblical. If a church has a broken home - say a mother with children who has to work to support them - it is the church's responsibility to step in and help. Again, we have seen this first hand in a sister church where the pastors (and other men) would visit the home once a week to help bring male leadership and biblical training. Helping in these situations may require inviting them into our homes for family worship time or special visits with the children by other men in the church to include them in a family.
These same principles should direct how we approach singles in our church, especially those who are away from their families. Last year we had a single young lady attending a local university who visited with us for several months. During her time we consistently invited her into our homes, would have spend time with our families, etc This offers the protection, encouragement and guidance that a single young lady needs who is away from the direct oversight of her father.
To meet the needs of broken homes, shut-ins, and singles, especially in smaller churches, requires our TIME and isn't an 1-2-3 program. It has to be at the heart of a church's ministry philosophy or it will never be effective, and those in the categories above will feel neglected, not a part of the body and third wheels - and usually will not stay long.
Even in our small church, we have 2 singles, one recent widower, and one mature saint married to an uncoverted man who attends every week. We see the challenges on our time and attention on a weekly basis, but we see the glorious fruit of this kind of attention and ministry.
Lastly, if you have a broken home in your church, you should gather the men of the church together to earnestly pray and seek the mind of Christ as to how you can help to make up, by the grace of Christ, that which is lacking. It is not easy, but will reap a harvest unto eternal life!
Reformed Christian
Puritan Board Freshman
ReformedWretch
Puritan Board Doctor
By being "cool" I mean having the ability to "appeal" to teens. in my opinion you either have that ability, or you don't. I really don't know what it is.
Yes, we meet the basic needs FIRST. Spurgeon said once we have their hearts the rest of them will follow where ever we lead.
Backwoods Presbyterian
Puritanboard Amanuensis
Yes, WSC not WCF
(We should make them memorize the WCF too
)
JBaldwin
Puritan Board Post-Graduate
I have to agree with those who've said teens can handle what you throw at them theologically. When I was 9 years olds, my family began attending a church which, though fundamental Baptist, had a pastor who preached through the Bible expositorily and encouraged the youth pastor to follow up with what he was doing. My sister was in entering high school at the time and soaked it up like a sponge. By the time we were out of high school, we had sat through preaching that covered all of the New Testament and most of the Old Testament, and we had been encouraged to read through the Scriptures once a year.
Needless to say, I think it is terrible when teens are given a lot of fluff rather than good sound, Biblical teaching. My sister's teens were fed up by the time they reached high school and the youth pastor at their church was still giving them what they called "baby food". They were hungry for strong meat, and it wasn't available to them at the youth group, because they youth pastor was more interested in having a good time.
Needless to say, I think it is terrible when teens are given a lot of fluff rather than good sound, Biblical teaching. My sister's teens were fed up by the time they reached high school and the youth pastor at their church was still giving them what they called "baby food". They were hungry for strong meat, and it wasn't available to them at the youth group, because they youth pastor was more interested in having a good time.
ReformedWretch
Puritan Board Doctor
This is typically the problem with youth pastors, but it wouldn't have to be.
TheocraticMonarchist
Puritan Board Junior
Revival?
ChristianHedonist
Puritan Board Freshman
I'm not a teen any more (I'm 20) but as a teen growing up in the OPC I had a strong interest in learning "deeper," reformed theology. This was in part due to the influence of an excellent youth leader we had who taught us good theology. He is a seminary student and is working towards becoming a preacher. Our youth group had at least an hour or more of good teaching, and we didn't spend much time messing around and playing games. Also, a group of teen boys from 8th grade through high school have begun a young men's discipleship group with our youth leader and our pastor, and they have been reading Packer and Ryle. I think it is ridiculous to assume that teens aren't ready to gain an interest in reformed theology, as I know several at my church who love learning about it. The "teen" stage of life is an unfortunate product of our culture. Didn't John Owen and Jonathan Edwards both start their college education when they were 12?
Scott,
You bring up a great question and I will be glad to give you the perspective of a younger man who was saved in his teenage years. The church I first herd and believed the Gospel was a small country church out in the middle of nowhere. I started going there around the time I was 16 because I liked the preaching. They did not have any other young people my age. All they had was the Gospel and an old preacher who didn't mind telling people about their sin and their need to believe on Christ for their salvation.
Today, over 10 years later thats still what young people need to be saved, so forget all these 'new methods' promoted to get the young people into church all they need is the Gospel.
TheocraticMonarchist
Puritan Board Junior
How much do we grieve the Holy Spirit by trying to spruce up, water down, or add to the Gospel?
The gospel alone is sufficent for doing the work of God. I think style (traditional or contemporary) is irrelevent as long as it doesn't detract from the Word of God.
People, in trying 'help' God by altering or detracting from His Word may find themselves in this situation:
Hosea 4:6
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge.
Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also will reject you from being priest for Me;
Because you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children.
I do find the growth of interest in reformed theology encouraging though.
caddy
Puritan Board Senior
I went through my Journaling Bible, noted -- by the verses -- all of the Shorter Catechism in the margins that correspond to those verses. I think it would be nice to have a "colorized" Bible that has the some sort of parallel of all the Creeds / Catechism: WCF, HB, Canon's of Dort References, etc.
Christusregnat
Puritan Board Professor
Scott,
I know that this is a bit off topic, but my daughter started memorizing question one of the Shorter Catechism when she was about 17 months old, and Genesis 1:1 when she was about the same age.
Children often live up to the standard we expect of them. We need a reassessment of parenting, and then I think we'd get somewhere with our children (of whatever age).
Cheers,
Adam
I know that this is a bit off topic, but my daughter started memorizing question one of the Shorter Catechism when she was about 17 months old, and Genesis 1:1 when she was about the same age.
Children often live up to the standard we expect of them. We need a reassessment of parenting, and then I think we'd get somewhere with our children (of whatever age).
Cheers,
Adam
BaptisticFire2007
Puritan Board Freshman
I think a lot of young people are ready for the deeper truths of the Reformed faith. I think the problem lies with the parents who still think that teenagers just want to party and go out, and don't really need deep teaching from the Word. In actuality, more than ever, those teens who have grown up in church are desiring some theological heavylifting and will leave their church if they aren't getting it there. I know heaps of young, Black teenagers and "twenty-somethings" who are flocking out of Pentecostal churches in droves in favour of Reformed churches - including myself.
Like I said, the responsibility, In my humble opinion, rests with the parents for not setting a good example. If you don't desire the tough meat of the Word of God, why should your children do it as they grow up? Then again if their parents do not desire the Word seeing as their "man of God" isn't delivering it, then what are we to expect?
Like I said, the responsibility, In my humble opinion, rests with the parents for not setting a good example. If you don't desire the tough meat of the Word of God, why should your children do it as they grow up? Then again if their parents do not desire the Word seeing as their "man of God" isn't delivering it, then what are we to expect?
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rmdmphilosopher
Puritan Board Freshman
I was just reading J.S. Mill's Autobiography (not a good role model by any means), and I think the premise that it begins with is relevant to this discussion and probably true:
"... more than is commonly supposed may be taught, and well taught, in those early years which, in the common modes of what is called instruction, are little better than wasted..."
I know that being made to memorize many, many passages of scripture and the WSC was one of the best things that happened to me as a child...
"... more than is commonly supposed may be taught, and well taught, in those early years which, in the common modes of what is called instruction, are little better than wasted..."
I know that being made to memorize many, many passages of scripture and the WSC was one of the best things that happened to me as a child...
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