See the top rated post in this thread. Click here

Results 1 to 7 of 7

Thread: Ordo Salutis and 4 pointers

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,093

    Ordo Salutis and 4 pointers

    In school one of the things I have noticed is that everyone at DTS laughs (not literally) at the idea that regeneration preceeds faith. These same profs then claim to be four pointers.

    So it seems to me that although they claim to be quasi-Calvinists, they have a different understanding of "I" than we do.

    Is this common with 4 pointers?
    B

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10,502
    What's common is a misunderstanding of how the "five points," that is the doctrines of grace, are logically and necessarily biblically dependent on one another and related to one another.

    Often, it begins with not understanding the "T" total depravity- that the fall comprehensively affected every aspect of man's being, mind, will, emotions, body such that man has the moral inability to seek God in a saving way.

    Therefore, only a change of the constituent nature of a human being, a miracle done first by God causes a person to be free to savingly believe.

    "What is Reformed Theology?" by RC Sproul might be helpful as it reviews this in detail.
    http://www.ligonier.org/store/what-i...ogy-paperback/

    Note also at the bottom of the resources page, a book No Longer a 3 Point Calvinist. I have not read that book, but it might be helpful along the same lines.
    [SIZE="2"]Scott
    PCA
    North Carolina[/SIZE]

    [I]Post Tenebras Lux;[/I] [SIZE="2"][I] "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4[/I][/SIZE]
    1 member(s) found this post helpful.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post
    In school one of the things I have noticed is that everyone at DTS laughs (not literally) at the idea that regeneration preceeds faith. These same profs then claim to be four pointers.

    So it seems to me that although they claim to be quasi-Calvinists, they have a different understanding of "I" than we do.

    Is this common with 4 pointers?
    Boliver, when you mention they are 4 pointers I would imagine that meant the L in some form of Amyraldism, that is often the case with 4 pointers, Richard Baxter is a famous example.
    César Proença

    there is no will nor running by which we can prepare the way for our salvation, it is wholly of the Divine Mercy Jean Calvin Institutes II . V. 17

    Reformed Churches in The Netherlands (liberated) http://www.gkv.nl/main.asp?intTreeviewID=954

    Igreja Reformada em Massamá Portugal http://www.igrejareformada.pt

    Church Creek Presbyterian, PCA, Charleston, SC. Visiting member http://www.church-creek.org

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,093
    Yes, they reject "L," but it also seems that they redefine the other letters as well.
    B

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post
    Yes, they reject "L," but it also seems that they redefine the other letters as well.
    I see. I guess, as it is often the case, it ends up being an entirely different flower
    César Proença

    there is no will nor running by which we can prepare the way for our salvation, it is wholly of the Divine Mercy Jean Calvin Institutes II . V. 17

    Reformed Churches in The Netherlands (liberated) http://www.gkv.nl/main.asp?intTreeviewID=954

    Igreja Reformada em Massamá Portugal http://www.igrejareformada.pt

    Church Creek Presbyterian, PCA, Charleston, SC. Visiting member http://www.church-creek.org

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,093
    Quote Originally Posted by discipulo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post
    Yes, they reject "L," but it also seems that they redefine the other letters as well.
    I see. I guess, as it is often the case, it ends up being an entirely different flower
    Reminds me of a black widow rose. It is called a rose, but it is not that pretty and smells horrible.
    B
    2 member(s) found this post helpful.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    10,502
    Quote Originally Posted by Chaplainintraining View Post
    Yes, they reject "L," but it also seems that they redefine the other letters as well.
    Often, but not always, it is difficulty with the "U" and "L" based on not understanding the "T," and not having the systematic theology of the doctrines of grace. That's why it is so incredibly powerful when one understands, really understands that God is indeed sovereign.
    [SIZE="2"]Scott
    PCA
    North Carolina[/SIZE]

    [I]Post Tenebras Lux;[/I] [SIZE="2"][I] "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4[/I][/SIZE]
    1 member(s) found this post helpful.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
About us
The PuritanBoard exists to promote robust discussion of theology in a Confessionally Reformed context. The modern trend of short statements of faith belies the many places where the Scriptures teach with great clarity. Though our respective Reformed confessions sometimes disagree, we believe that Churches have been given the gifts of teachers and elders to lead to the unity of the faith and the result of that unity is a Confessional Church confessing together: "This is what the Scriptures teach." The Confessions are secondary to the authority of Scripture itself but they arise out of Scripture as a standard exposition of the Word of God.