Thread: So I finally started reading the Shack...

I recently started reading "The Shack."

I was challenged by a pastor-friend of mine who said that I "wasn't qualified to comment on it's contents if I hadn't read it through."

While I think that's flawed thinking, I got a copy used off of Amazon to read.

Aside from being boring, it's loaded with cheap shots about religion, and seminary, "head knowledge" and such.

I've just gotten to the part where Mack is in the shack talking with this blasphemous portrayal of God, and it's very tough wading through it...it's so..."icky" for lack of a better word.

Why anyone thinks that this is good reading is beyond me...

I feel the same way about Dan Brown's writing (Angel & Demons, etc...). It is poor prose.

I was challenged by a pastor-friend of mine who said that I "wasn't qualified to comment on it's contents if I hadn't read it through."

Been there. I read Tim Challies' reveiw but that wasn't enough for the guys I was talking to. I had to pollute my mind with this garbage to 'comment intelligently' (if that's not a huge contradiciton when speaking of 'The Shack').

I finished it, and now think it is worse than I ever could have imagined.

My condolences.

The Shack is very good in one sense. Great for kindling.

I was given the book by a friend of mine. she wanted my opinion on it. fortunately, thanks to faithful PB members I won't have to read the entire book.

My sister recommended 'The Shack' to me to help me understand why a lot of bad stuff happens to me. I haven't even tried to read it because I know my sister and she means well, but she has the discernment of a treeful of squirrels.

But I once did try reading The Purpose Driven Life. I agree with the general assessment about popular God-books on this thread so far. It was boring and lacked internal logic. I couldn't read more than a few paragraphs at a time, and then I could actually feel brain-cells starting to die. I gave up after a couple of chapters, so it was a good thing I hadn't signed the Covenant to Stick With It For Forty Days.

she has the discernment of a treeful of squirrels.

I know people like that! Most are my relatives. Very well put, Caroline.

Originally Posted by rpavich

I was challenged by a pastor-friend of mine who said that I "wasn't qualified to comment on it's contents if I hadn't read it through."

This is terrible logic. Is your pastor-friend critical of the Book of Mormon? The Koran? P*rn?

Don't tell me that comment came from your PCA pastor.

Ok, I'm just wondering if I'm nuts here (ok, yes, I know I am. lol. But I mean on this point particularly). One reason that I never picked up The Shack is because I just have a problem with the general idea of a fictional 'conversation with God' ... whatever 'God' might say. Doesn't it violate the 3rd commandment (and also possibly the second)?

My thinking on it ... one can expound on what God says and try to explain it in other words if that is helpful (like preaching, for example). But whenever someone says, "God said ... *comma* ... *quotation marks* ..." then it becomes a prophecy. And if it is NOT something that God actually said, then it is a FALSE prophecy. And if it is a FALSE prophecy, then the person giving it is taking the name of the Lord in vain and committing a very serious sin (one punishable by death under the OT law, not that I'm advocating that we kill the author ... but just saying, it's not a little sin).

Along this same line, I'm taken aback by the billboards that have the 'messages from God', even though I know they are meant to be cute and funny and make people think or whatever. It seems blasphemous to me. How dare anyone sign God's name to something He has not said? Do they not believe that He sees them? Don't they know what He says about those who speak words in His name that He has not spoken? (Deut. 18:20)

I dunno ... am I overthinking this, ya'll?

Just put the book down. Throw in firepit. Douse book with gasoline and light with a match.

Originally Posted by Joshua

Just put the book down. Throw in firepit. Douse book with gasoline and light with a match.

Use the light from the fire to read the Psalms.

Personally, I would rather be an 'unworthy critic' of the book than force myself to read and fill my mind with the breaking of the 2nd and 3rd Commandments. That's just me, do as your conscience allows, good sir.

Can't recall who said it, but I remember hearing as a response to "don't knock it til you try it (or read it!)" - "have you ever been hit by a truck? How do you know you won't like it until you try it?"

The scripture tells us to 'learn and live!' not 'live and learn' (Paul Washer)

Psalm 119:37
Turn my eyes from looking at worthless things;and give me life in your ways.

Jeremiah 16:19
O LORD, my strength and my stronghold, my refuge in the day of trouble, to you shall the nations come from the ends of the earth and say:"Our fathers have inherited nothing but lies, worthless things in which there is no profit.

I wrote a paper on Young's The Shack, Donald Miller's Blue Like Jazz and Rob Bell's Velvet Elvis. I consider these emergent type narration.

Concerning the book The Shack Tim Challes writes:

The Shack says little about how God has communicated or will continue to communicate with us in Scripture. There are a couple of times that it mentions the Bible, but never does it point to Scripture as a real authority or as the sufficient Word of God.
"The Shack" by William P. Young :: books, emergent, reviews, theology :: A Reformed, Christian Blog

Not sound teaching. 2 Tim. 4:3 warns about this.

Everyone,
thanks for your insightful, funny, biblical, and useful comments.

I expected nothing less than that from those who frequent this board.

I have to clear something up though:

Quote

Don't tell me that comment came from your PCA pastor.

No, this was my old "Assemblies of God" pastor...surprise!

No wonder I left...


And the other commenter is right...it's much worse than I imagined...

I have a copy, stop reading now. I'm off the cuff here, but I believe page 96 (or close) has a conversation with "God",she (this is even hard to write) is consoling Mac and baking him a pie (arg..) she alludes to the pain of the atoning work on the cross and looks to the scars on her own wrists. See a problem, who was on the cross?

I say, nuff said.

Sorry for any errors. This was typed on a phone

In Him for the Gospel

Which PCA church in Fairmont do you attend Robert?

Another problem with the book -- every member of the "Trinity" in the book is feminized (they are also purposefully de-Anglocized, which isn't necessarily a criticism, but perhaps it further betrays an agenda of sorts). The Father is the worst stereo-type of an African-American woman, the Holy Spirit is an female Asian gardener. True, "the Son" is a male Jewish carpenter, but early in the book the main character tells a story to his daughter about an Indian legend where an Indian princess sacrifices her life in order to save her tribe. Do the math on that one.

Originally Posted by rpavich

I recently started reading "The Shack."

I was challenged by a pastor-friend of mine who said that I "wasn't qualified to comment on it's contents if I hadn't read it through."

While I think that's flawed thinking, I got a copy used off of Amazon to read.

Aside from being boring, it's loaded with cheap shots about religion, and seminary, "head knowledge" and such.

I've just gotten to the part where Mack is in the shack talking with this blasphemous portrayal of God, and it's very tough wading through it...it's so..."icky" for lack of a better word.

Why anyone thinks that this is good reading is beyond me...

Yep, I agree. It boggles my mind. And I have heard the same thing, from different people about not being able to judge it without reading the whole book. I don't plan on buying it though.

Several weeks ago before SS class , the teachers wife asked the few of us that were there if we had heard of it, I said yes it's heresy and told her about Dr. Mohler's and others reviews of it. She was still all excited over it and said she really liked it. That her husband (he's a retired Pastor) was going to read it next. He was sitting next to her. I need to remember to ask him if he's read it yet and what his thoughts are. If he enjoyed it, I don't know what I'll do or if I should talk to the Pastor about it.

When I hear people say this helps them understand God better. I think what God?! It certainly has nothing to do with the God of the Bible. How can Christians not see that if beyond me. ugh It turns my stomach.

My mom read it and said that she had heard complaints about God being portrayed as a female, but that she didn't see any real problems with it considering the person's circumstance. However, this was before I had even heard of it, and I just assumed this was a female messenger of God or something. I've read reviews now... I'm glad I didn't read it.

When it comes to books and TV programs my thoughts are that we should consider the treasure within us, knowing that every thing that enters the mind either draws us closer to Him or waters down the purity of our belief. The Shack would definitely fall into the latter.

And also, there is the perception that ALL books and resources have some issues, so you have to "pick out the good, while leaving the bad"....

I ask...why wade through a dung pile on the hope that their MIGHT be a dime underneath...?

Originally Posted by Joshua

Just put the book down. Throw in firepit. Douse book with gasoline and light with a match.

I burned a Tommey Tenney book (Of God-Chasers "fame") this very evening. Seriously.

Originally Posted by rpavich

And also, there is the perception that ALL books and resources have some issues, so you have to "pick out the good, while leaving the bad"....

I ask...why wade through a dung pile on the hope that their MIGHT be a dime underneath...?

The problem is that it's not merely wading through a dung pile looking for a dime underneath... it's EATING through a dung pile, hoping to find a chocolate chip under it all!

On a positive note, after my father, who does not believe in God, read it he started reading the bible every day...

I read that the author wrote it for his children before ever thinking about it being published. It doesn't contain an exposition of Reformed theology from God's perspective, but that's no surprise. It's not the bible and so has no authority; it's one man's contribution to make people think. I say thank God for it, despite its (absolutely inevitable) errors and pray that He uses it and pray that its errors don't cause serious problems.

Originally Posted by dr_parsley

On a positive note, after my father, who does not believe in God, read it he started reading the bible every day...

I read that the author wrote it for his children before ever thinking about it being published. It doesn't contain an exposition of Reformed theology from God's perspective, but that's no surprise. It's not the bible and so has no authority; it's one man's contribution to make people think. I say thank God for it, despite its (absolutely inevitable) errors and pray that He uses it and pray that its errors don't cause serious problems.

Dr. Parsley,

Praise God that your dad is reading the bible. However, and please know that I am not trying to be presumptuous or judgmental or anything negative, but the book should not be recommended based on your fathers experience.

Similarly, if I had a friend saved at a Benny Hinn conference on demonology, I would not send my unsaved friends to see Benny Hinn. The unsaved respond to the Gospel when God calls them with his ‘effectual calling’.
This may be your position, but I think, when talking about heresy in a positive light, it's important to reiterate that it's still heresy, effectively removing the positive light!

In Him for the Gospel

Originally Posted by John Weathersby

Originally Posted by dr_parsley

On a positive note, after my father, who does not believe in God, read it he started reading the bible every day...

Dr. Parsley,

Praise God that your dad is reading the bible. However, and please know that I am not trying to be presumptuous or judgmental or anything negative, but the book should not be recommended based on your fathers experience.

I agree. I actually did give it to him because I had a strong feeling that it could be used by God for my Dad given where he was in his thinking. One step on the road, not the final one. But I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to just anyone without knowledge of where they are because it could be unhelpful.

I see it a bit like any artwork. Some will derive spiritual benefit from looking at Rembrandt's "Prodigal Son", but some will latch on to the heresy that's hidden there to their detriment. In the end, it's just a work of man not intended for anyone to take authoritatively and I very much doubt that anyone would take it as an authority in any way; I think they would be stimulated to think and, as my Dad did, turn to the bible to find out more (and correct impressions gained from the book). Having said that, I do think younger people can be more impressionable and should probably steer well away from The Shack, as well as Rembrandt.

I couldn't finish the book...this is what I replied to my pastor friend:

-----------------------------------------
Well, I tried to read the whole thing but I couldn't finish it; I had to stop at just over 2/3 of the way but that was plenty.

I was right in my initial comments in the previous email; but now that I read it, I see that there were a lot more disturbing elements than what I had read in the reviews of Dr. Mohler, MacArthur, Piper, and Tim Challies...(they had only dealt with the "high points" for the most part.)

Reading this book a complete waste of time; the tone was sickening. God the Father, Jesus, and the HS are portrayed in the most disrespectful way, I'm very surprised that any Christian would find it anything but revolting. It really seemed like it was written by an Atheist; not someone who is a Christian.

The reviews that I had read (and quoted to you) were "spot on" and not taken out of context in the least, in fact, I'd say that they were being very charitable with the book; giving it the benefit of the doubt in many places.

And while I understand that it is fiction; it's put across in a "matter of fact" way as "explaining spiritual things" and Christians are looking to this book to "shore up their understanding" of God. There is more than one quote in the front of the book that says exactly that. Just like the Davinci code...it's fiction that people take as fact.

I have to repeat what I said in the beginning; what it teaches is not only heresy but it's in poor taste and offensive to me as one who loves God and how He has revealed Himself in His word.

PS: Evidently I didn't have to buy it and slog through it to have credibility when I commented on it...the excerpts and reviews I read were sufficient and they were accurate.

I'll ask the question I had asked of you at the beginning:

"As Christians shouldn't we be defending the word of God and denouncing heresy like "the Shack" and not defending it?"


bob

Bob,

The sad thing is that the idea of heresy simply does not register with many claiming the name Christian today. The Shack is not dangerous to them but anybody who would quench "Spirituality" for a sober look at comparing a religious experience to the Word of God. In other words, if you tell them it is heresy then they're more worried about you than the book because you let your head get in the way of your heart.

This is a real challenge in today's ministry. Getting through to people who have cut their teeth on various shades of Charismatic experience is often very difficult because they've learned to inherently trust their heart and that what is inside of them is more authoritative than the Word of God that comes from outside of us to divide us, reprove us, and direct us.

I labor gently with people but it takes a long time to establish a rapport with people to get them to trust you to teach them the Word. But, if you can get them to listen, the Word will do its Sovereign work in many and get them to see that it tells men that their hearts are not to be trusted.

We're going to see much, much more of this. I believe we're in a time, again, where the Gnostics outnumber those who hold to Biblical orthodoxy. Even though our culture is hostile to Christianity, take a look at the direction modern psychology has gone in some corners that openly embraces this kind of spirituality. Even the 12 Step programs are government funded. The language of higher power is all around us and it's often not the case that people that are friendly to "spirituality" are friendly to the Word of God.

I was challenged by a pastor-friend of mine who said that I "wasn't qualified to comment on it's contents if I hadn't read it through."

This is terrible logic. Is your pastor-friend critical of the Book of Mormon? The Koran? P*rn?

I asked my two adversaries the same thing: Would I need to tuck $10 into the g-string of a stripper in order to know that it was no place for a Christian? NO! I know that there is no place for a Christian in a strip joint, and trying to tell me that I have to 'experience' it first to really understand it is simply nonsense and dragging me down knee-deep into the barn-yard effluent. And now that I've read The Shack and am pointing out the deep errors, all I hear from them is "Well, it's not the Bible, you know!"

Originally Posted by dr_parsley

Originally Posted by John Weathersby

Originally Posted by dr_parsley

On a positive note, after my father, who does not believe in God, read it he started reading the bible every day...

Dr. Parsley,

Praise God that your dad is reading the bible. However, and please know that I am not trying to be presumptuous or judgmental or anything negative, but the book should not be recommended based on your fathers experience.

I agree. I actually did give it to him because I had a strong feeling that it could be used by God for my Dad given where he was in his thinking. One step on the road, not the final one. But I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to just anyone without knowledge of where they are because it could be unhelpful.

I see it a bit like any artwork. Some will derive spiritual benefit from looking at Rembrandt's "Prodigal Son", but some will latch on to the heresy that's hidden there to their detriment. In the end, it's just a work of man not intended for anyone to take authoritatively and I very much doubt that anyone would take it as an authority in any way; I think they would be stimulated to think and, as my Dad did, turn to the bible to find out more (and correct impressions gained from the book). Having said that, I do think younger people can be more impressionable and should probably steer well away from The Shack, as well as Rembrandt.

This is a side-note but can you tell me what the heresy is 'hidden in Rembrandt's Prodigal Son'? I've never heard of this problem in that painting...

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

This is a side-note but can you tell me what the heresy is 'hidden in Rembrandt's Prodigal Son'? I've never heard of this problem in that painting...

Oh well now you've put me on the spot I might have to backtrack , but the Father has one man's hand and one woman's hand. Obviously Rembrandt is trying to make a point; whatever it is I don't think it's in the WCF. I'm not sure it's heresy, but from the fuss that people make about God being female in The Shack, I thought it would be in the same category.

-----Added 7/7/2009 at 08:55:28 EST-----

Originally Posted by kvanlaan

I asked my two adversaries the same thing: Would I need to tuck $10 into the g-string of a stripper in order to know that it was no place for a Christian? NO! I know that there is no place for a Christian in a strip joint, and trying to tell me that I have to 'experience' it first to really understand it is simply nonsense and dragging me down knee-deep into the barn-yard effluent. And now that I've read The Shack and am pointing out the deep errors, all I hear from them is "Well, it's not the Bible, you know!"

I totally sympathise with you and I'm really open to correction if I do not sufficiently often rebuke heresy, but the analogous situation would be if there were lots of professing Christians saying strip clubs were OK. Also, no-one is forcing you to criticise The Shack and, according to your "adversaries", I presume it would be OK for you to not read it and not criticise it.

Because it's so prevalent, I find it difficult to instantly empathise with getting animated and upset about the error we see around us. We are living in the world, and the world has reverted to wilderness with wild lions prowling all around. I can't leave my house without a lion growling at me through the bushes. This is where we live and I wouldn't get excited if I see a lion cub playing with the chain on the gate. Teach everyone, always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have, but do this with gentleness and respect. I confess that as a student I was led to memorise 1 Peter and as a result, perhaps out of proportion, that particular verse has always since been a mainstay of my practice. YES do it! But do it with gentleness and respect.

I totally sympathise with you and I'm really open to correction if I do not sufficiently often rebuke heresy, but the analogous situation would be if there were lots of professing Christians saying strip clubs were OK. Also, no-one is forcing you to criticise The Shack and, according to your "adversaries", I presume it would be OK for you to not read it and not criticise it.

I think that's just the issue at hand: lots of professing Christians I know are saying that the Shack is OK when it is full of outright heresy. I think that's right on target with the analogy. I had a CRC pastor tell me that the hardest part for him was reading the first part of the book, the pre-Papa sections.

Also, the reason I was supposed to read it is because these two (a previous CRC member who is now a freewill Baptist, and a CRC member) asked me what I thought of it - they wanted a discussion on it. I had read Tim Challies' review and gave the highlights of that, but they said that wasn't enough - I had to read it to comment.

Also, we MUST criticize it (with scriptural backing and in love, mind you). We MUST teach our brothers who are lead astray that what they are doing is dangerous and leads down a heretical path. I remember hearing an atheist comment that he appreciated Christians prosteletizing, though he 'knew' there was no God. His comment was this: if you strongly believe there is a dump truck ready to run me down, though I believe it won't hit me or that there is actually no dump truck at all, how much do you have to hate me not to warn me about the dump truck? In fact, if you believe it strongly enough, you will bodily knock me out of the way at the last second. This is what we are called to do. Young presents a different gospel. What are we supposed to do with that? I think it is very clear in Scripture.

Because it's so prevalent, I find it difficult to instantly empathise with getting animated and upset about the error we see around us. We are living in the world, and the world has reverted to wilderness with wild lions prowling all around. I can't leave my house without a lion growling at me through the bushes. This is where we live and I wouldn't get excited if I see a lion cub playing with the chain on the gate. Teach everyone, always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have, but do this with gentleness and respect. I confess that as a student I was led to memorise 1 Peter and as a result, perhaps out of proportion, that particular verse has always since been a mainstay of my practice. YES do it! But do it with gentleness and respect.

The difference is that this rubbish is selling itself as Christianity. The world will act like the world - they're just pagans being pagans. But when you profess the name of Christ, you are held to a different standard altogether.

Here's a little experiment for anyone who wants to read the Shack: Read the Shack and then read the Book of Job. Take note of what the Shack says abouthow God deals with those who are suffering, and then take note of what Job says about how God deals with those who are suffering.

Wait, God won't make breakfast for me to cheer me up?

Sven,
No fair; you're comparing it to the bible!

Originally Posted by rpavich

Sven,
No fair; you're comparing it to the bible!

You wouldn't believe (or maybe you would) how many times I've heard Christians say, "Stop quoting the Bible."

My former seminary (Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary of the PC(USA)) sells that book in the seminary bookstore!