Closed Thread
Page 1 of 3
1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 92

Thread: So I finally started reading the Shack...

  1. #1
    rpavich's Avatar
    rpavich is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    284
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 116 Times in 73 Posts

    So I finally started reading the Shack...

    I recently started reading "The Shack."

    I was challenged by a pastor-friend of mine who said that I "wasn't qualified to comment on it's contents if I hadn't read it through."

    While I think that's flawed thinking, I got a copy used off of Amazon to read.

    Aside from being boring, it's loaded with cheap shots about religion, and seminary, "head knowledge" and such.

    I've just gotten to the part where Mack is in the shack talking with this blasphemous portrayal of God, and it's very tough wading through it...it's so..."icky" for lack of a better word.

    Why anyone thinks that this is good reading is beyond me...
    Last edited by rpavich; 07-06-2009 at 12:09 PM. Reason: bad spelling
    Robert
    Lay Person
    PCA
    West Virginia
    Go share your faith
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to rpavich For This Useful Post:

    gritsrus (07-06-2009)

  3. #2
    Backwoods Presbyterian's Avatar
    Backwoods Presbyterian is offline. Puritanboard Doctor
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sarver, PA
    Posts
    12,968
    Blog Entries
    2
    Thanks
    5,502
    Thanked 3,008 Times in 1,800 Posts
    I feel the same way about Dan Brown's writing (Angel & Demons, etc...). It is poor prose.
    Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, Licentiate, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
    Ruling Elder Fairmount ARP Church
    Pittsburgh, PA


    "I am as happy as perhaps creation can make me. I enjoy all the necessaries and most of the conveniences of life. I have a peaceful study as a refuge from the hurries and noise of the world around me, the venerable dead are waiting in my library to entertain me..." --Samuel Davies

    Deo Vindice
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  4. #3
    kvanlaan's Avatar
    kvanlaan is offline. Puritanboard Doctor
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    6,587
    Thanks
    2,071
    Thanked 1,810 Times in 990 Posts
    I was challenged by a pastor-friend of mine who said that I "wasn't qualified to comment on it's contents if I hadn't read it through."
    Been there. I read Tim Challies' reveiw but that wasn't enough for the guys I was talking to. I had to pollute my mind with this garbage to 'comment intelligently' (if that's not a huge contradiciton when speaking of 'The Shack').

    I finished it, and now think it is worse than I ever could have imagined.
    Kevin, husband of a truly angelic woman, and father to ten.
    Zion United Reformed Church of Sheffield
    Ontario, Canada
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  5. #4
    LawrenceU's Avatar
    LawrenceU is offline. Puritanboard Doctor
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Deep in the heart of Dixie - Mobile, Alabama
    Posts
    6,992
    Thanks
    984
    Thanked 3,362 Times in 1,701 Posts
    My condolences.
    We shall not adjust our Bible to the age; but before we have done with it, by God's grace, we shall adjust the age to the Bible. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

    Lawrence Underwood, Jr.
    Pastor - Providence Family Fellowship / Mobile, Alabama
    1644/46 LBC
    My Blog - Imprimis
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to LawrenceU For This Useful Post:

    Gloria (07-10-2009)

  7. #5
    Grillsy's Avatar
    Grillsy is offline. Puritanboard Junior
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Grayson, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,359
    Thanks
    755
    Thanked 231 Times in 135 Posts
    The Shack is very good in one sense. Great for kindling.
    Willie Grills
    Trinity Presbyterian Church
    OPC
    Huntington, WV
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Grillsy For This Useful Post:

    AThornquist (07-06-2009)

  9. #6
    Rangerus's Avatar
    Rangerus is offline. Puritanboard Junior
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cedar Park, TX
    Posts
    1,105
    Thanks
    346
    Thanked 192 Times in 134 Posts
    I was given the book by a friend of mine. she wanted my opinion on it. fortunately, thanks to faithful PB members I won't have to read the entire book.
    Rangerus
    Southern Baptist
    Austin, TX
    Teacher and Volunteer
    1689 LBCF & BF&M 2000
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  10. #7
    Caroline's Avatar
    Caroline is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Schenectady, NY
    Posts
    217
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 225 Times in 92 Posts
    My sister recommended 'The Shack' to me to help me understand why a lot of bad stuff happens to me. I haven't even tried to read it because I know my sister and she means well, but she has the discernment of a treeful of squirrels.

    But I once did try reading The Purpose Driven Life. I agree with the general assessment about popular God-books on this thread so far. It was boring and lacked internal logic. I couldn't read more than a few paragraphs at a time, and then I could actually feel brain-cells starting to die. I gave up after a couple of chapters, so it was a good thing I hadn't signed the Covenant to Stick With It For Forty Days.
    Caroline
    OPC
    Schenectady, NY
    Blog: The Unlikely Calvinist
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  11. #8
    Berean's Avatar
    Berean is offline. Puritanboard Doctor
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Monticello, IA
    Posts
    6,895
    Thanks
    3,704
    Thanked 1,146 Times in 912 Posts
    she has the discernment of a treeful of squirrels.
    I know people like that! Most are my relatives. Very well put, Caroline.
    Norm
    IA PCA

    "What fools are they who, for a drop of pleasure, drink a sea of wrath." -Thomas Watson
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Berean For This Useful Post:

    Ruby (07-07-2009)

  13. #9
    Marrow Man's Avatar
    Marrow Man is offline. Drunk with Powder
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    8,159
    Thanks
    3,232
    Thanked 2,892 Times in 1,435 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by rpavich View Post
    I was challenged by a pastor-friend of mine who said that I "wasn't qualified to comment on it's contents if I hadn't read it through."
    This is terrible logic. Is your pastor-friend critical of the Book of Mormon? The Koran? P*rn?
    Tim Phillips
    Pastor, Midlane Park Presbyterian Church (ARP)
    Louisville, KY
    Husband of Scottish Lass
    Father of Grace Cameron Phillips
    My Blog: Gairney Bridge
    My Facebook/My Avatar

    Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

    "Wherever the gospel is preached, it is as if God Himself came into the midst of us." ~ John Calvin
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  14. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Marrow Man For This Useful Post:

    Calvin'scuz (07-10-2009), ChariotsofFire (07-06-2009), Clay7926 (07-06-2009), Edward (07-06-2009), Gloria (07-10-2009)

  15. #10
    Archlute's Avatar
    Archlute is offline. Puritanboard Senior
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Sandy, Oregon
    Posts
    2,196
    Thanks
    476
    Thanked 978 Times in 443 Posts
    Don't tell me that comment came from your PCA pastor.
    Rev. Adam J. Myer
    Estacada Christian Church
    Sandy, Oregon
    ChBOLC

    Soli Deo Gloria
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  16. #11
    Caroline's Avatar
    Caroline is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Schenectady, NY
    Posts
    217
    Thanks
    42
    Thanked 225 Times in 92 Posts
    Ok, I'm just wondering if I'm nuts here (ok, yes, I know I am. lol. But I mean on this point particularly). One reason that I never picked up The Shack is because I just have a problem with the general idea of a fictional 'conversation with God' ... whatever 'God' might say. Doesn't it violate the 3rd commandment (and also possibly the second)?

    My thinking on it ... one can expound on what God says and try to explain it in other words if that is helpful (like preaching, for example). But whenever someone says, "God said ... *comma* ... *quotation marks* ..." then it becomes a prophecy. And if it is NOT something that God actually said, then it is a FALSE prophecy. And if it is a FALSE prophecy, then the person giving it is taking the name of the Lord in vain and committing a very serious sin (one punishable by death under the OT law, not that I'm advocating that we kill the author ... but just saying, it's not a little sin).

    Along this same line, I'm taken aback by the billboards that have the 'messages from God', even though I know they are meant to be cute and funny and make people think or whatever. It seems blasphemous to me. How dare anyone sign God's name to something He has not said? Do they not believe that He sees them? Don't they know what He says about those who speak words in His name that He has not spoken? (Deut. 18:20)

    I dunno ... am I overthinking this, ya'll?
    Caroline
    OPC
    Schenectady, NY
    Blog: The Unlikely Calvinist
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  17. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Caroline For This Useful Post:

    Classical Presbyterian (07-06-2009), Jake (07-06-2009), Josiah (07-06-2009), Kauffeld (07-06-2009), SueS (07-07-2009)

  18. #12
    Joshua's Avatar
    Joshua is offline. Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    23,936
    Blog Entries
    3
    Thanks
    3,364
    Thanked 1,793 Times in 1,021 Posts
    Just put the book down. Throw in firepit. Douse book with gasoline and light with a match.
    Josh
    CCRPC, RPCGA
    Board Rules -Signature Rules

    How absurd a tenet is this, which holdeth that there is some particular worship of God allowed, and not commanded? What new light is this which maketh all our divines to have been in the mist, who have acknowledged no worship of God, but that which God hath commanded? Who ever heard of commanded and allowed worship?
    - George Gillespie
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  19. #13
    Grillsy's Avatar
    Grillsy is offline. Puritanboard Junior
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Grayson, Kentucky
    Posts
    1,359
    Thanks
    755
    Thanked 231 Times in 135 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua View Post
    Just put the book down. Throw in firepit. Douse book with gasoline and light with a match.
    Use the light from the fire to read the Psalms.
    Willie Grills
    Trinity Presbyterian Church
    OPC
    Huntington, WV
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  20. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Grillsy For This Useful Post:

    Josiah (07-06-2009), Kauffeld (07-06-2009), kvanlaan (07-06-2009), Pilgrim72 (07-07-2009)

  21. #14
    Scynne's Avatar
    Scynne is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Abbotsford, B.C., Canadia
    Posts
    104
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 28 Times in 16 Posts
    Personally, I would rather be an 'unworthy critic' of the book than force myself to read and fill my mind with the breaking of the 2nd and 3rd Commandments. That's just me, do as your conscience allows, good sir.
    Dave
    Attendee Chilliwack Heritage Reformed
    Abbotsford, Canadia

    "God does not love us the way we are! God loves us so that we can become what He wants us to be." - George Grant
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to Scynne For This Useful Post:

    Classical Presbyterian (07-06-2009)

  23. #15
    Kauffeld's Avatar
    Kauffeld is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Moving to Grand Rapids
    Posts
    211
    Thanks
    130
    Thanked 66 Times in 33 Posts
    Can't recall who said it, but I remember hearing as a response to "don't knock it til you try it (or read it!)" - "have you ever been hit by a truck? How do you know you won't like it until you try it?"

    The scripture tells us to 'learn and live!' not 'live and learn' (Paul Washer)

    Psalm 119:37
    Turn my eyes from looking at worthless things;and give me life in your ways.

    Jeremiah 16:19
    O LORD, my strength and my stronghold, my refuge in the day of trouble, to you shall the nations come from the ends of the earth and say:"Our fathers have inherited nothing but lies, worthless things in which there is no profit.
    Josh
    100% subscription - WCF (original)
    Seeking membership in the FPCS
    Grand Rapids, MI

    "My business is to love others and not to seek that others shall love me" // "Redeeming the time, for the days are evil" Eph 5:16
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  24. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Kauffeld For This Useful Post:

    Augusta (07-07-2009), Classical Presbyterian (07-06-2009), Claudiu (07-06-2009), Quickened (07-09-2009), Semper Fidelis (07-07-2009), SRoper (07-07-2009)

  25. #16
    CNJ's Avatar
    CNJ
    CNJ is offline. Puritanboard Junior
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Plant City, Florida
    Posts
    1,559
    Blog Entries
    6
    Thanks
    1,121
    Thanked 348 Times in 202 Posts
    I wrote a paper on Young's The Shack, Donald Miller's Blue Like Jazz and Rob Bell's Velvet Elvis. I consider these emergent type narration.

    Concerning the book The Shack Tim Challes writes:

    The Shack says little about how God has communicated or will continue to communicate with us in Scripture. There are a couple of times that it mentions the Bible, but never does it point to Scripture as a real authority or as the sufficient Word of God.
    "The Shack" by William P. Young :: books, emergent, reviews, theology :: A Reformed, Christian Blog

    Not sound teaching. 2 Tim. 4:3 warns about this.
    Carol
    Plant City, Florida


    That I may gain Christ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
    Philippians 3:8,9

    http://www.gettingoffthenicenesstreadmill.com/
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  26. #17
    rpavich's Avatar
    rpavich is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    284
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 116 Times in 73 Posts
    Everyone,
    thanks for your insightful, funny, biblical, and useful comments.

    I expected nothing less than that from those who frequent this board.

    I have to clear something up though:

    Quote
    Don't tell me that comment came from your PCA pastor.
    No, this was my old "Assemblies of God" pastor...surprise!

    No wonder I left...


    And the other commenter is right...it's much worse than I imagined...
    Robert
    Lay Person
    PCA
    West Virginia
    Go share your faith
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to rpavich For This Useful Post:

    CNJ (07-06-2009)

  28. #18
    John Weathersby is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    72
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts
    I have a copy, stop reading now. I'm off the cuff here, but I believe page 96 (or close) has a conversation with "God",she (this is even hard to write) is consoling Mac and baking him a pie (arg..) she alludes to the pain of the atoning work on the cross and looks to the scars on her own wrists. See a problem, who was on the cross?

    I say, nuff said.

    Sorry for any errors. This was typed on a phone

    In Him for the Gospel
    John Weathersby
    Calvary Chapel
    New Mexico

    "For I decided to know nothing among you except
    Jesus Christ and him crucified (1 Cor 2:2)".
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  29. #19
    Backwoods Presbyterian's Avatar
    Backwoods Presbyterian is offline. Puritanboard Doctor
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Sarver, PA
    Posts
    12,968
    Blog Entries
    2
    Thanks
    5,502
    Thanked 3,008 Times in 1,800 Posts
    Which PCA church in Fairmont do you attend Robert?
    Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, Licentiate, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
    Ruling Elder Fairmount ARP Church
    Pittsburgh, PA


    "I am as happy as perhaps creation can make me. I enjoy all the necessaries and most of the conveniences of life. I have a peaceful study as a refuge from the hurries and noise of the world around me, the venerable dead are waiting in my library to entertain me..." --Samuel Davies

    Deo Vindice
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  30. #20
    Marrow Man's Avatar
    Marrow Man is offline. Drunk with Powder
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    8,159
    Thanks
    3,232
    Thanked 2,892 Times in 1,435 Posts
    Another problem with the book -- every member of the "Trinity" in the book is feminized (they are also purposefully de-Anglocized, which isn't necessarily a criticism, but perhaps it further betrays an agenda of sorts). The Father is the worst stereo-type of an African-American woman, the Holy Spirit is an female Asian gardener. True, "the Son" is a male Jewish carpenter, but early in the book the main character tells a story to his daughter about an Indian legend where an Indian princess sacrifices her life in order to save her tribe. Do the math on that one.
    Tim Phillips
    Pastor, Midlane Park Presbyterian Church (ARP)
    Louisville, KY
    Husband of Scottish Lass
    Father of Grace Cameron Phillips
    My Blog: Gairney Bridge
    My Facebook/My Avatar

    Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

    "Wherever the gospel is preached, it is as if God Himself came into the midst of us." ~ John Calvin
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  31. #21
    gritsrus's Avatar
    gritsrus is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    206
    Thanks
    132
    Thanked 20 Times in 14 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by rpavich View Post
    I recently started reading "The Shack."

    I was challenged by a pastor-friend of mine who said that I "wasn't qualified to comment on it's contents if I hadn't read it through."

    While I think that's flawed thinking, I got a copy used off of Amazon to read.

    Aside from being boring, it's loaded with cheap shots about religion, and seminary, "head knowledge" and such.

    I've just gotten to the part where Mack is in the shack talking with this blasphemous portrayal of God, and it's very tough wading through it...it's so..."icky" for lack of a better word.

    Why anyone thinks that this is good reading is beyond me...
    Yep, I agree. It boggles my mind. And I have heard the same thing, from different people about not being able to judge it without reading the whole book. I don't plan on buying it though.

    Several weeks ago before SS class , the teachers wife asked the few of us that were there if we had heard of it, I said yes it's heresy and told her about Dr. Mohler's and others reviews of it. She was still all excited over it and said she really liked it. That her husband (he's a retired Pastor) was going to read it next. He was sitting next to her. I need to remember to ask him if he's read it yet and what his thoughts are. If he enjoyed it, I don't know what I'll do or if I should talk to the Pastor about it.

    When I hear people say this helps them understand God better. I think what God?! It certainly has nothing to do with the God of the Bible. How can Christians not see that if beyond me. ugh It turns my stomach.
    Rachel
    Baptist Church, Central FL
    “A man’s free will cannot cure him even of a toothache, or of a sore finger and yet he madly thinks it is in its power to cure his soul! The greatest judgment which God Himself can, in the present life, inflict upon a man is to leave him in the hands of his own boasted free will.” - Augustus Toplady (1740-1778)

    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  32. #22
    Jake's Avatar
    Jake is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    320
    Thanks
    89
    Thanked 51 Times in 38 Posts
    My mom read it and said that she had heard complaints about God being portrayed as a female, but that she didn't see any real problems with it considering the person's circumstance. However, this was before I had even heard of it, and I just assumed this was a female messenger of God or something. I've read reviews now... I'm glad I didn't read it.
    Jake; Hold to Original WCF, member of SBC; Greater Atlanta, Georgia Area

    You cannot tell, beloved, if you have never tasted, how sweet is the peace which are the doctrines of grace will give to the soul; there is none like them...They are God's sweet lullaby, wherewith he singeth his children to sleep, even in storms. They are God's sheet anchors, which are cast out into the sea, to hold our little vessels fast in the midst of tempests. —Charles Spurgeon (The Form of Sound Words, sermon)
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  33. #23
    christiana is offline. Inactive User
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    The Woodlands, TX
    Posts
    1,634
    Thanks
    715
    Thanked 653 Times in 342 Posts
    When it comes to books and TV programs my thoughts are that we should consider the treasure within us, knowing that every thing that enters the mind either draws us closer to Him or waters down the purity of our belief. The Shack would definitely fall into the latter.
    Nancy L./ [url]www.foundersbaptist.org[/url]
    Spring, TX

    Your will, Lord Jesus Christ! Nothing more... nothing less... nothing else.
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  34. #24
    rpavich's Avatar
    rpavich is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    284
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 116 Times in 73 Posts
    And also, there is the perception that ALL books and resources have some issues, so you have to "pick out the good, while leaving the bad"....

    I ask...why wade through a dung pile on the hope that their MIGHT be a dime underneath...?
    Robert
    Lay Person
    PCA
    West Virginia
    Go share your faith
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  35. The Following User Says Thank You to rpavich For This Useful Post:

    christiana (07-06-2009)

  36. #25
    D. Paul's Avatar
    D. Paul is offline. Puritanboard Sophomore
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Mansfield, OH
    Posts
    859
    Thanks
    67
    Thanked 88 Times in 59 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua View Post
    Just put the book down. Throw in firepit. Douse book with gasoline and light with a match.
    I burned a Tommey Tenney book (Of God-Chasers "fame") this very evening. Seriously.
    Donald P. Grubb
    theol46@embarqmail.com

    Berean Baptist Church, Mansfield, OH
    Mansfield, OH

    John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing.
    The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  37. #26
    toddpedlar's Avatar
    toddpedlar is offline. Iron Dramatist
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Decorah, IA
    Posts
    6,718
    Thanks
    263
    Thanked 2,658 Times in 1,367 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by rpavich View Post
    And also, there is the perception that ALL books and resources have some issues, so you have to "pick out the good, while leaving the bad"....

    I ask...why wade through a dung pile on the hope that their MIGHT be a dime underneath...?
    The problem is that it's not merely wading through a dung pile looking for a dime underneath... it's EATING through a dung pile, hoping to find a chocolate chip under it all!
    Todd K. Pedlar
    member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
    My Blog: In Principio Deus
    Podcast I co-host: Covenant Radio

    "As God did not at first choose you because you were high, He will not now forsake you because you are low."
    John Flavel in Keeping the Heart

    Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Joining PB's Politics & Government Forum
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  38. The Following User Says Thank You to toddpedlar For This Useful Post:

    Sven (07-07-2009)

  39. #27
    dr_parsley's Avatar
    dr_parsley is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    439
    Thanks
    117
    Thanked 199 Times in 99 Posts
    On a positive note, after my father, who does not believe in God, read it he started reading the bible every day...

    I read that the author wrote it for his children before ever thinking about it being published. It doesn't contain an exposition of Reformed theology from God's perspective, but that's no surprise. It's not the bible and so has no authority; it's one man's contribution to make people think. I say thank God for it, despite its (absolutely inevitable) errors and pray that He uses it and pray that its errors don't cause serious problems.
    Paul
    No denomination, affiliated with FIEC
    "Deliver me from worldly dispositions, for I am born from above and destined for glory" - Valley of Vision
    "They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation" - Peter
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  40. #28
    John Weathersby is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    72
    Thanks
    9
    Thanked 16 Times in 12 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by dr_parsley View Post
    On a positive note, after my father, who does not believe in God, read it he started reading the bible every day...

    I read that the author wrote it for his children before ever thinking about it being published. It doesn't contain an exposition of Reformed theology from God's perspective, but that's no surprise. It's not the bible and so has no authority; it's one man's contribution to make people think. I say thank God for it, despite its (absolutely inevitable) errors and pray that He uses it and pray that its errors don't cause serious problems.
    Dr. Parsley,

    Praise God that your dad is reading the bible. However, and please know that I am not trying to be presumptuous or judgmental or anything negative, but the book should not be recommended based on your fathers experience.

    Similarly, if I had a friend saved at a Benny Hinn conference on demonology, I would not send my unsaved friends to see Benny Hinn. The unsaved respond to the Gospel when God calls them with his ‘effectual calling’.
    This may be your position, but I think, when talking about heresy in a positive light, it's important to reiterate that it's still heresy, effectively removing the positive light!

    In Him for the Gospel
    John Weathersby
    Calvary Chapel
    New Mexico

    "For I decided to know nothing among you except
    Jesus Christ and him crucified (1 Cor 2:2)".
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  41. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to John Weathersby For This Useful Post:

    dr_parsley (07-07-2009), MMasztal (08-14-2009), Sven (07-07-2009)

  42. #29
    dr_parsley's Avatar
    dr_parsley is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    439
    Thanks
    117
    Thanked 199 Times in 99 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by John Weathersby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dr_parsley View Post
    On a positive note, after my father, who does not believe in God, read it he started reading the bible every day...
    Dr. Parsley,

    Praise God that your dad is reading the bible. However, and please know that I am not trying to be presumptuous or judgmental or anything negative, but the book should not be recommended based on your fathers experience.
    I agree. I actually did give it to him because I had a strong feeling that it could be used by God for my Dad given where he was in his thinking. One step on the road, not the final one. But I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to just anyone without knowledge of where they are because it could be unhelpful.

    I see it a bit like any artwork. Some will derive spiritual benefit from looking at Rembrandt's "Prodigal Son", but some will latch on to the heresy that's hidden there to their detriment. In the end, it's just a work of man not intended for anyone to take authoritatively and I very much doubt that anyone would take it as an authority in any way; I think they would be stimulated to think and, as my Dad did, turn to the bible to find out more (and correct impressions gained from the book). Having said that, I do think younger people can be more impressionable and should probably steer well away from The Shack, as well as Rembrandt.
    Paul
    No denomination, affiliated with FIEC
    "Deliver me from worldly dispositions, for I am born from above and destined for glory" - Valley of Vision
    "They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation" - Peter
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  43. #30
    rpavich's Avatar
    rpavich is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    284
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 116 Times in 73 Posts
    I couldn't finish the book...this is what I replied to my pastor friend:

    -----------------------------------------
    Well, I tried to read the whole thing but I couldn't finish it; I had to stop at just over 2/3 of the way but that was plenty.

    I was right in my initial comments in the previous email; but now that I read it, I see that there were a lot more disturbing elements than what I had read in the reviews of Dr. Mohler, MacArthur, Piper, and Tim Challies...(they had only dealt with the "high points" for the most part.)

    Reading this book a complete waste of time; the tone was sickening. God the Father, Jesus, and the HS are portrayed in the most disrespectful way, I'm very surprised that any Christian would find it anything but revolting. It really seemed like it was written by an Atheist; not someone who is a Christian.

    The reviews that I had read (and quoted to you) were "spot on" and not taken out of context in the least, in fact, I'd say that they were being very charitable with the book; giving it the benefit of the doubt in many places.

    And while I understand that it is fiction; it's put across in a "matter of fact" way as "explaining spiritual things" and Christians are looking to this book to "shore up their understanding" of God. There is more than one quote in the front of the book that says exactly that. Just like the Davinci code...it's fiction that people take as fact.

    I have to repeat what I said in the beginning; what it teaches is not only heresy but it's in poor taste and offensive to me as one who loves God and how He has revealed Himself in His word.

    PS: Evidently I didn't have to buy it and slog through it to have credibility when I commented on it...the excerpts and reviews I read were sufficient and they were accurate.

    I'll ask the question I had asked of you at the beginning:

    "As Christians shouldn't we be defending the word of God and denouncing heresy like "the Shack" and not defending it?"


    bob
    Robert
    Lay Person
    PCA
    West Virginia
    Go share your faith
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  44. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to rpavich For This Useful Post:

    Classical Presbyterian (07-07-2009), gritsrus (07-07-2009), SueS (07-07-2009)

  45. #31
    Semper Fidelis's Avatar
    Semper Fidelis is offline. 2 Timothy 2:24-25
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Northern Virgnia
    Posts
    18,641
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    2,648
    Thanked 6,669 Times in 2,685 Posts
    Bob,

    The sad thing is that the idea of heresy simply does not register with many claiming the name Christian today. The Shack is not dangerous to them but anybody who would quench "Spirituality" for a sober look at comparing a religious experience to the Word of God. In other words, if you tell them it is heresy then they're more worried about you than the book because you let your head get in the way of your heart.

    This is a real challenge in today's ministry. Getting through to people who have cut their teeth on various shades of Charismatic experience is often very difficult because they've learned to inherently trust their heart and that what is inside of them is more authoritative than the Word of God that comes from outside of us to divide us, reprove us, and direct us.

    I labor gently with people but it takes a long time to establish a rapport with people to get them to trust you to teach them the Word. But, if you can get them to listen, the Word will do its Sovereign work in many and get them to see that it tells men that their hearts are not to be trusted.

    We're going to see much, much more of this. I believe we're in a time, again, where the Gnostics outnumber those who hold to Biblical orthodoxy. Even though our culture is hostile to Christianity, take a look at the direction modern psychology has gone in some corners that openly embraces this kind of spirituality. Even the 12 Step programs are government funded. The language of higher power is all around us and it's often not the case that people that are friendly to "spirituality" are friendly to the Word of God.
    Rich
    PCA, Northern VA
    Student, New Geneva Theological Seminary

    WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to build and promote your web site.
    SoliDeoGloria.com - A Community for Reformed Thought and Discussion

    Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  46. #32
    kvanlaan's Avatar
    kvanlaan is offline. Puritanboard Doctor
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    6,587
    Thanks
    2,071
    Thanked 1,810 Times in 990 Posts
    I was challenged by a pastor-friend of mine who said that I "wasn't qualified to comment on it's contents if I hadn't read it through."
    This is terrible logic. Is your pastor-friend critical of the Book of Mormon? The Koran? P*rn?
    I asked my two adversaries the same thing: Would I need to tuck $10 into the g-string of a stripper in order to know that it was no place for a Christian? NO! I know that there is no place for a Christian in a strip joint, and trying to tell me that I have to 'experience' it first to really understand it is simply nonsense and dragging me down knee-deep into the barn-yard effluent. And now that I've read The Shack and am pointing out the deep errors, all I hear from them is "Well, it's not the Bible, you know!"
    Kevin, husband of a truly angelic woman, and father to ten.
    Zion United Reformed Church of Sheffield
    Ontario, Canada
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  47. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to kvanlaan For This Useful Post:

    Classical Presbyterian (07-07-2009), dr_parsley (07-07-2009), gritsrus (07-07-2009)

  48. #33
    toddpedlar's Avatar
    toddpedlar is offline. Iron Dramatist
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Decorah, IA
    Posts
    6,718
    Thanks
    263
    Thanked 2,658 Times in 1,367 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by dr_parsley View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by John Weathersby View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by dr_parsley View Post
    On a positive note, after my father, who does not believe in God, read it he started reading the bible every day...
    Dr. Parsley,

    Praise God that your dad is reading the bible. However, and please know that I am not trying to be presumptuous or judgmental or anything negative, but the book should not be recommended based on your fathers experience.
    I agree. I actually did give it to him because I had a strong feeling that it could be used by God for my Dad given where he was in his thinking. One step on the road, not the final one. But I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to just anyone without knowledge of where they are because it could be unhelpful.

    I see it a bit like any artwork. Some will derive spiritual benefit from looking at Rembrandt's "Prodigal Son", but some will latch on to the heresy that's hidden there to their detriment. In the end, it's just a work of man not intended for anyone to take authoritatively and I very much doubt that anyone would take it as an authority in any way; I think they would be stimulated to think and, as my Dad did, turn to the bible to find out more (and correct impressions gained from the book). Having said that, I do think younger people can be more impressionable and should probably steer well away from The Shack, as well as Rembrandt.
    This is a side-note but can you tell me what the heresy is 'hidden in Rembrandt's Prodigal Son'? I've never heard of this problem in that painting...
    Todd K. Pedlar
    member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
    My Blog: In Principio Deus
    Podcast I co-host: Covenant Radio

    "As God did not at first choose you because you were high, He will not now forsake you because you are low."
    John Flavel in Keeping the Heart

    Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Joining PB's Politics & Government Forum
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  49. #34
    dr_parsley's Avatar
    dr_parsley is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    South Africa
    Posts
    439
    Thanks
    117
    Thanked 199 Times in 99 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by toddpedlar View Post
    This is a side-note but can you tell me what the heresy is 'hidden in Rembrandt's Prodigal Son'? I've never heard of this problem in that painting...
    Oh well now you've put me on the spot I might have to backtrack , but the Father has one man's hand and one woman's hand. Obviously Rembrandt is trying to make a point; whatever it is I don't think it's in the WCF. I'm not sure it's heresy, but from the fuss that people make about God being female in The Shack, I thought it would be in the same category.

    -----Added 7/7/2009 at 08:55:28 EST-----

    Quote Originally Posted by kvanlaan View Post
    I asked my two adversaries the same thing: Would I need to tuck $10 into the g-string of a stripper in order to know that it was no place for a Christian? NO! I know that there is no place for a Christian in a strip joint, and trying to tell me that I have to 'experience' it first to really understand it is simply nonsense and dragging me down knee-deep into the barn-yard effluent. And now that I've read The Shack and am pointing out the deep errors, all I hear from them is "Well, it's not the Bible, you know!"
    I totally sympathise with you and I'm really open to correction if I do not sufficiently often rebuke heresy, but the analogous situation would be if there were lots of professing Christians saying strip clubs were OK. Also, no-one is forcing you to criticise The Shack and, according to your "adversaries", I presume it would be OK for you to not read it and not criticise it.

    Because it's so prevalent, I find it difficult to instantly empathise with getting animated and upset about the error we see around us. We are living in the world, and the world has reverted to wilderness with wild lions prowling all around. I can't leave my house without a lion growling at me through the bushes. This is where we live and I wouldn't get excited if I see a lion cub playing with the chain on the gate. Teach everyone, always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have, but do this with gentleness and respect. I confess that as a student I was led to memorise 1 Peter and as a result, perhaps out of proportion, that particular verse has always since been a mainstay of my practice. YES do it! But do it with gentleness and respect.
    Paul
    No denomination, affiliated with FIEC
    "Deliver me from worldly dispositions, for I am born from above and destined for glory" - Valley of Vision
    "They think it strange that you do not plunge with them into the same flood of dissipation" - Peter
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  50. #35
    kvanlaan's Avatar
    kvanlaan is offline. Puritanboard Doctor
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    6,587
    Thanks
    2,071
    Thanked 1,810 Times in 990 Posts
    I totally sympathise with you and I'm really open to correction if I do not sufficiently often rebuke heresy, but the analogous situation would be if there were lots of professing Christians saying strip clubs were OK. Also, no-one is forcing you to criticise The Shack and, according to your "adversaries", I presume it would be OK for you to not read it and not criticise it.
    I think that's just the issue at hand: lots of professing Christians I know are saying that the Shack is OK when it is full of outright heresy. I think that's right on target with the analogy. I had a CRC pastor tell me that the hardest part for him was reading the first part of the book, the pre-Papa sections.

    Also, the reason I was supposed to read it is because these two (a previous CRC member who is now a freewill Baptist, and a CRC member) asked me what I thought of it - they wanted a discussion on it. I had read Tim Challies' review and gave the highlights of that, but they said that wasn't enough - I had to read it to comment.

    Also, we MUST criticize it (with scriptural backing and in love, mind you). We MUST teach our brothers who are lead astray that what they are doing is dangerous and leads down a heretical path. I remember hearing an atheist comment that he appreciated Christians prosteletizing, though he 'knew' there was no God. His comment was this: if you strongly believe there is a dump truck ready to run me down, though I believe it won't hit me or that there is actually no dump truck at all, how much do you have to hate me not to warn me about the dump truck? In fact, if you believe it strongly enough, you will bodily knock me out of the way at the last second. This is what we are called to do. Young presents a different gospel. What are we supposed to do with that? I think it is very clear in Scripture.

    Because it's so prevalent, I find it difficult to instantly empathise with getting animated and upset about the error we see around us. We are living in the world, and the world has reverted to wilderness with wild lions prowling all around. I can't leave my house without a lion growling at me through the bushes. This is where we live and I wouldn't get excited if I see a lion cub playing with the chain on the gate. Teach everyone, always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have, but do this with gentleness and respect. I confess that as a student I was led to memorise 1 Peter and as a result, perhaps out of proportion, that particular verse has always since been a mainstay of my practice. YES do it! But do it with gentleness and respect.
    The difference is that this rubbish is selling itself as Christianity. The world will act like the world - they're just pagans being pagans. But when you profess the name of Christ, you are held to a different standard altogether.
    Kevin, husband of a truly angelic woman, and father to ten.
    Zion United Reformed Church of Sheffield
    Ontario, Canada
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  51. #36
    Sven's Avatar
    Sven is offline. Puritanboard Sophomore
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Eagan, MN
    Posts
    725
    Thanks
    195
    Thanked 357 Times in 198 Posts
    Here's a little experiment for anyone who wants to read the Shack: Read the Shack and then read the Book of Job. Take note of what the Shack says abouthow God deals with those who are suffering, and then take note of what Job says about how God deals with those who are suffering.
    Steven J. Carr (Sven)
    http://beholdingthebeauty.blogspot.com/
    Eagan, MN
    PCA
    "Weak is the effort of my heart / And cold my warmest thought / But when I see thee as thou art / I'll praise thee as I ought."--John Newton
    Trophy Wife/Arm Candy: Crystal Ann Children: Steven Jr. and Hannah Grace
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  52. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Sven For This Useful Post:

    Backwoods Presbyterian (07-07-2009), Classical Presbyterian (07-07-2009), dr_parsley (07-07-2009), gritsrus (07-07-2009), jonmo (07-07-2009), kvanlaan (07-07-2009), Montanablue (07-09-2009), MrMerlin777 (07-07-2009)

  53. #37
    kvanlaan's Avatar
    kvanlaan is offline. Puritanboard Doctor
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    6,587
    Thanks
    2,071
    Thanked 1,810 Times in 990 Posts
    Wait, God won't make breakfast for me to cheer me up?
    Kevin, husband of a truly angelic woman, and father to ten.
    Zion United Reformed Church of Sheffield
    Ontario, Canada
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  54. #38
    rpavich's Avatar
    rpavich is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    West Virginia
    Posts
    284
    Thanks
    12
    Thanked 116 Times in 73 Posts
    Sven,
    No fair; you're comparing it to the bible!
    Robert
    Lay Person
    PCA
    West Virginia
    Go share your faith
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  55. #39
    Sven's Avatar
    Sven is offline. Puritanboard Sophomore
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Eagan, MN
    Posts
    725
    Thanks
    195
    Thanked 357 Times in 198 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by rpavich View Post
    Sven,
    No fair; you're comparing it to the bible!
    You wouldn't believe (or maybe you would) how many times I've heard Christians say, "Stop quoting the Bible."
    Steven J. Carr (Sven)
    http://beholdingthebeauty.blogspot.com/
    Eagan, MN
    PCA
    "Weak is the effort of my heart / And cold my warmest thought / But when I see thee as thou art / I'll praise thee as I ought."--John Newton
    Trophy Wife/Arm Candy: Crystal Ann Children: Steven Jr. and Hannah Grace
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

  56. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sven For This Useful Post:

    kvanlaan (07-07-2009), MrMerlin777 (07-07-2009)

  57. #40
    Classical Presbyterian's Avatar
    Classical Presbyterian is offline. Puritanboard Junior
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Butler, PA
    Posts
    1,187
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    852
    Thanked 311 Times in 153 Posts
    My former seminary (Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary of the PC(USA)) sells that book in the seminary bookstore!
    Rev. Toby L. Brown, pastor
    Jefferson Center Presbyterian Church--in, but not of, the PC(USA)
    Saxonburg, PA
    A Classical Presbyterian
    Proud member of The Westminster Fellowship

    "The happiness of the creature consists in rejoicing in God, by which God is also highly exalted." --Jonathan Edwards
    Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 3
1 2 3 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69