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Federal Vision/New Perspectives Discussion of the various innovations regarding justification (New Perspective on Paul, Federal Vision, Shepherdism)

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2008, 10:15 PM
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An excellent thread. During the last several years I have noticed an increased attack on Sola Scriptura by the Catholic Church - I have been on other BBSs where the Catholics swoop in on discussions of Biblical authority. One of their biggest arguments includes listing former Reformed pastors and others who have "come home to Rome". It looks like their efforts have been paying off.

Interestingly one I know personally (Scott Hahn) was a theonomist before he switched to Catholicism. I always wondered if Scott's switch was a reaction to his theonomy.

I had suggested to our Sunday School leader last fall that we should have a class on Sola Sciptura. I think I will redouble my efforts
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Old 01-07-2008, 04:50 PM
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Scott Hahn apostatized to Rome not because of a reaction to his theonomy but because of the influence of the heretic, Norman Sheperd. Hahn was not well studied in doctrine and was infatuated with the Roman view of worship. He became disinchanted with much of the woship he saw in "Protestant" circles. He had no real knowledege of Roman theology, but liked the smells and the bells of Roman liturgy. I have heard Hahn's testimony of his defection to Rome and he reminds me of someone who is always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2008, 04:54 PM
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Are you new to PuritanBoard, Richard Elliott? It is nice to have you with us.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2008, 06:48 PM
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From the blog post:

Quote:
The FV movement was (and is) disparate. Some of the leaders lack formal theological education (e.g. Doug Wilson). Some have PhDs (e.g. Peter Leithart and Jeff Myers). Their original claim to be recovering historic Reformed Christianity is no longer tenable so now they generally claim to be discovering a “more biblical” form of Christianity, to be carrying on the work of Reformation. The claim to have discovered something new and interesting and to be more biblical, of course, attracts attention from, if I may be blunt, naive evangelicals who don’t know the Reformation or the history of Reformed theology and exegesis in the first place but who are perhaps attracted to the doctrine of predestination and disposed toward novelty already.
I see the same thing happening with Hyper-preterism. People come out of Dispensationalism and are attracted to DeMar and Gentry's preterism, but because of a disposition toward novelty and a disregard for the history of Reformed theology and exegesis follow preterism to extremes. It would not surpise me to see the hyper-preterist being attracted to FV.

Also from the blog:

Quote:
From the late 90s there was a spate of books and before them a list of blogs (several Federal Visionists were early adopters of the medium and that did much to advance their cause), websites, and discussion lists that propagated the FV widely across the web.
This is a big problem with many things. Many do not understand that anybody can post a blog. There is no authority required. There is no need for 'peer review'. I have a real problem with those shepherds who do not submit to any authority or confessional peers and go out of their way to propogate their message. Who are they trying to reach? Not their own sheep. They wouldn't need a blog for that. They are trying to reach people in my flock and yours. Notice they never say, "Ask your elders what they thinks about what you have just read." Easy access to information has its benefits and its dangers.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2008, 08:55 PM
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Are you new to PuritanBoard, Richard Elliott? It is nice to have you with us.
Yes, I am new. Thank you. I posted in the Introduce Yourself new memeber forum if you want details and need pictures for blackmail.

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I have heard Hahn's testimony of his defection to Rome and he reminds me of someone who is always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
I think you picked up a lot in that testimony. Last time I exchanged emails with him he was trying to convince me I would find Reformed truths in Catholic theology. I'm still waiting for his response to my criticism of the Council of Trent by comparing it to the Council of Orange.

I had two classes from him at McLean Presbyterian Chuch under the auspices of Dominion Theological Seminary (absorbed into another seminary I can't remember) back in the early 80's. He was coming from a theonomic point of view at that time.

By the way - we love Nova Scotia - catching the ferrey from Bar Harbor to Yarmouth and driving up to Cape Breton - beautiful!
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2008, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narnian View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Are you new to PuritanBoard, Richard Elliott? It is nice to have you with us.
Yes, I am new. Thank you. I posted in the Introduce Yourself new memeber forum if you want details and need pictures for blackmail.

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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
I have heard Hahn's testimony of his defection to Rome and he reminds me of someone who is always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
I think you picked up a lot in that testimony. Last time I exchanged emails with him he was trying to convince me I would find Reformed truths in Catholic theology. I'm still waiting for his response to my criticism of the Council of Trent by comparing it to the Council of Orange.

I had two classes from him at McLean Presbyterian Chuch under the auspices of Dominion Theological Seminary (absorbed into another seminary I can't remember) back in the early 80's. He was coming from a theonomic point of view at that time.

By the way - we love Nova Scotia - catching the ferrey from Bar Harbor to Yarmouth and driving up to Cape Breton - beautiful!
Hello, Richard. I would like to chat with you further about Scott Hahn. I was raised Roman Catholic and have a real desire to see Papists converted to Christ. I have listened to Scott Hahn on television and have followed his twist on covenant theology. I believe he calls it the familial covenant. Are you coming to Cape Breton anytime soon. Email me and let's chat.

Peace & Joy,
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2008, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Scott Hahn apostatized to Rome not because of a reaction to his theonomy but because of the influence of the heretic, Norman Sheperd. Hahn was not well studied in doctrine and was infatuated with the Roman view of worship. He became disinchanted with much of the woship he saw in "Protestant" circles. He had no real knowledege of Roman theology, but liked the smells and the bells of Roman liturgy. I have heard Hahn's testimony of his defection to Rome and he reminds me of someone who is always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Sola Dei Gloria put out a book on Justification By Faith, which is a compilation of article by Sproul, Beeke, etc. The last chapter is an open letter from John Gerstner to Scott Hahn. If you haven't read it, that chapter is worth the price of the book.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 01-09-2008, 06:11 PM
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Have any FV'ers taken an explicit exception to any of the "9-points" - or do they deny they teach anything to the contrary?
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 01-10-2008, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Hello, Richard. I would like to chat with you further about Scott Hahn. I was raised Roman Catholic and have a real desire to see Papists converted to Christ. I have listened to Scott Hahn on television and have followed his twist on covenant theology. I believe he calls it the familial covenant. Are you coming to Cape Breton anytime soon. Email me and let's chat.

Peace & Joy,
No plans in the near future (but you never know - I know my wife would like to in the next few years). I do have copies of my notes (poor handwriting) and most handouts I believe from the "Theology of the Family" class I took from him back in 1983. He used articles from "The Journal of Christian Reconstruction", as well as articles and books by Gary North, Rushdoony ("The Trustee Family & Economics") and Chilton Richard Baxter ("The Puritan Family") and several others. I could provide copies if desired.

I also have some of my notes and handouts from a "Creeds and Confessions" class I took around the same time.
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