This is pathetic; you can't make this stuff up. Praying for you Bob.
And So It Begins << Green Bagginses; link broken now; page taken down.
Attack from Moscow « Reformed Musings

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Chris Coldwell, Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Member
• Naphtali Press: Presbyterian & Reformed Books
• The Confessional Presbyterian Journal
• The Blue Banner Archive

The Regulative Principle: Samuel Miller gives a succinct statement of this principle when he writes that since the Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference.”

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I smell a Tort!

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The man who is disposed to think of his sin as a great calamity, rather than as a heinous crime, is not likely either to reverence God or to respect His law. - John Kennedy, 1873
Meg
Blog
Member, Intown Presbyterian Church,PCA, Portland, OR

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NaphtaliPress;



May God give us all wisdom and discernment in all of this...may He use it to grow us to be more like Him...

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Bobbi Clark
Covenant Member
Pinewood Pres. (PCA) Middleburg

When I kept Silent, My bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. Psalm 32:3

Doug Wilson's Credena Agenda site was one of the ones from which I learned quite a bit about the doctrines of sovereign grace, after having been blindsided by a sermon on predestination at Christ Chapel.

I've got Reformed Marriage, Federal Husband, Fruit of Her Hands, and a couple of other books by him and his wife.

His ability to debate atheists is matchless. I've learned so much reading him over the years.

So it's painful to watch him implode in the way he is. Gives me a sense of deja vu, AAMOF, taking me back to the days of Watergate. I wasn't any big fan of Nixon, but still, lots of good people were adamant supporters of his and I couldn't believe he'd be so stupidly arrogant (arrogantly stupid?) as to pull the stunts of which he was being accused.

Turned out, of course, that he had become exactly that stupid and arrogant. Many of his fervent fans, who'd worked for years to get him into the White House, were shattered by the Watergate revelations.

ISTM Wilson's mirroring Nixon, with a similarly unpleasant end looming up in front of him.

Not that he'd be capable of seeing it coming. Nixon sure couldn't.

I daresay I'm going to be alone in my belief that rather than publicizing Wilson & Co. unchristian, uncharitable, unwise bletherings, it'd be most prudent and God-honoring to simply ignore them.

First, because we mimic our Savior most closely when we suffer as He did.....in silence, making no attempt to return fire.

Second, because if we'd step back and look at the situation logically, Wilson's doing a dandy job of self-destructing. He doesn't need our help. He's insulted the entire hierarchy of the PCA, and that denomination's judicial system. He's hardly on good terms with the OPC. Thinking about it, I'm wondering if there's a single Reformed denomination with which he's currently getting along, outside of his own CREC.

He's no longer published in TableTalk or any other Reformed literary vehicle, is he?

His church and college are unable to get along with the community in which they reside. From what I can tell, Wilson's ministry is enormously dependent upon the internet, especially now that he's positioned himself to take on all comers.

His New Saint Andrews' College, once one cuts through the verbiage about how they've limited the number of students they accept, is a tiny, podunk college that can't manage to scrape together more than 170 f/t and p/t students, and at that they have to rely upon the internet, since it's a cinch they don't get many students from their natural market, i.e. Idaho. Instead NSA has to draw from 32 states and a handful of foreign countries to be able to cobble together 170 students. When one's enrollment is that minuscule, drawing from so many states and nations is actually not a positive. Of course, NSA isn't going to point that out, and I don't blame them. Were I a part of a college that had to scramble for students, I would try my best to put a shiny gloss on it too.
My point is that he's doing a fine job of marginalizing himself by first alienating the community in which he lives, and now alienating a large part of the nation's Reformed world. Increasingly he's reminding me of those strange new converts to Eastern/Western/Russian Orthodoxy, who do not actually live in an area that has an Orthodox church. They discovered it via the internet, learned about it from the internet, and the only Orthodox people they know are those on the internet.

John MacArthur and R.C. Sproul have been significant forces in the Reformed world, as I understand it, for decades. They have never been dependent upon the internet for their respective ministries' existence, and were the internet to suddenly crash for the long-term, they'd keep right on being significant forces. I don't see the same being true for Wilson. Were the internet to crash and burn, there he'd be, stuck in a town that dislikes him, dependent upon pricey postage to communicate with his supporters, and finding it hard to garner new ones.

I think he'd drop off the radar startlingly fast.

If people would quit promoting and advertising him by spreading word of his misdeeds via the internet, he'll probably drop off the radar anyway, though not so rapidly. He's alienated his geographical market. He's busily alienating his Reformed market by attacking every Reformed denomination save his own. He's not being invited to participate in nearly as many conferences, etc. as he once was.

Gentlemen, I assure you, if y'all will ignore him and his minions, stop visiting their websites and blogs, and generally act as if they aren't there, before too long they most likely won't be there.

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Anne Ivy
Christ Chapel Bible Church
Fort Worth, Texas

Married to Don, mother of six, grandmother to an ever-increasing brood.

The Ivy Vine (my blog)

Gryphonette;

With all respect, they can't do that as long as he is a TE of the PCA, as Pastors and TE's of the PCA, they are doing what they are being called to do...hold him to account for what he is teaching the flock of which they are also a part.

I know the elders of my church are watching this fairly closely...my pastor and I have spoken about the issue, and he mentioned if the issue is not addressed he's not sure he can remain a PCA pastor...and knowing most of the churches in our area are not reformed...I'd have a very difficult time locating another church home...so it is not a matter of ignoring the issues and he will go away...it hasn't gone away yet, simply because it has been ignored for many many years...

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Bobbi Clark
Covenant Member
Pinewood Pres. (PCA) Middleburg

When I kept Silent, My bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. Psalm 32:3

It is easy to do, but I think you are confusing Wilson with Wilkins; the PCA cannot ignore the latter. The former it may very well be prudent to try to ignore. It is not unique to our time that such a choice needs making; do you ignore a contentious element that may self destruct or do you defend yourself and the truth. Tough call.

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Chris Coldwell, Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Member
• Naphtali Press: Presbyterian & Reformed Books
• The Confessional Presbyterian Journal
• The Blue Banner Archive

The Regulative Principle: Samuel Miller gives a succinct statement of this principle when he writes that since the Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference.”

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions? Joining PB's Politics & Government Forum

Anne:

I am sympathetic to your point about ignoring Wilson. That would be easier to do, however, if his negative influence wasn't showing up in virtually every nook and cranny of the Reformed world. In fact I never thought that FV would make its home in my former denomination but I was naive. It can happen anywhere; anywhere young men and women are stirred up by charismatic leaders who are larger than life but who don't really have any true godliness or concern for the sheep.

However, as someone who has dealt with his followers and supporters (though never directly with the man himself) I can say that most of what you say there looks to be as accurate a prediction as stating that the sun will rise tomorrow.

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Rev. Daniel Kok
Pastor of Grace Reformed Church (URCNA)
Leduc, Alberta CANADA
Church Blog

"there is no creature, either in heaven or on earth, who loves us more than Jesus Christ"
Belgic Confession, Article 26

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Wilson's a TE of the PCA?

When'd that happen?

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Anne Ivy
Christ Chapel Bible Church
Fort Worth, Texas

Married to Don, mother of six, grandmother to an ever-increasing brood.

The Ivy Vine (my blog)

Even creeping into a mothering board with several Reformed women. Or into areas where women come together because of views on the home or shared interests such as books and tapes from Vision Forum. Yeah, not fully avoidable.

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JC
URCNA
PA, but homesick for SC

"Who says you can't go back, been all around the world and as a matter of fact. There's only one place left I want to go, who says you can't go home" Bon Jovi

No Wilkins is a TE in the PCA; Wilson is not. Chris was simply correcting the mix-up in post #5.

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Rev. Daniel Kok
Pastor of Grace Reformed Church (URCNA)
Leduc, Alberta CANADA
Church Blog

"there is no creature, either in heaven or on earth, who loves us more than Jesus Christ"
Belgic Confession, Article 26

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Aside from most accurately and faithfully mimicking Christ when we ignore jabs and stabs from self-professed enemies (BTW....and I know this is going to be hard for y'all to believe, such an embodiment of sweetness and light as I am....I've suffered such jabs and stabs myself on more than one occasion over the years; refusing to reply or even go look to see the crud written about me wasn't easy, but hey - it worked; by refusing to engage I didn't add fuel to the fire, allowing the kerfluffles to wither and die), replying in kind provides Wilson & Co. with opportunities to wrap the mantle of martyrhood around themselves, and if there's one thing at which they're skilled it's capitalizing on such opportunities.

For those on the fence, or those who aren't already emotionally shackled to Wilson, if he keeps attacking and attacking and attacking without himself ever being attacked, eventually the gilt will rub off and the truth laid bare.

I didn't actually expect all you gentlemen to immediately heed my sound advice, though. ;^)

Guys tend to be such fierce types!

Figured it wouldn't do any harm to have someone suggest an alternate method of dealing with the lies and calumnies being hacked up by Wilson & Co. than that of going on the offensive.

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Anne Ivy
Christ Chapel Bible Church
Fort Worth, Texas

Married to Don, mother of six, grandmother to an ever-increasing brood.

The Ivy Vine (my blog)

That is an interesting point; though I doubt we, or they, have the self-restraint required to do that.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

While I don't claim to know much about the ins and outs of the debate in the PCA (though I did watch the discussion in the General Assembly), would it not just be esaier for everyone in Steve Wilkins joined the CREC?

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

Well, he'd be much more honest if he did that, than if he tries to stick it out (but it's so nice to be able to claim martyrship!)

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://semperubi.rtrc.net

"Many men, after a long conversion, see more of the workings of sin in their hearts than ever they did before or at their first conversion. Now, such men have not an increase of sin, but an increase of illumination and light" (Christopher Love)


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Good point; men like to be made martyrs for their hobby-horses - just look at Servetus.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

The one thing self-promoters cannot bear is to be ignored. Attacks and such are welcomed, for they provide a bully pulpit () for them, and provide support for their claims of martyrhood.

Giving them increased opportunities for "Pity poor us, look how we're maligned and mistreated!" is a mistake, ISTM.

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Anne Ivy
Christ Chapel Bible Church
Fort Worth, Texas

Married to Don, mother of six, grandmother to an ever-increasing brood.

The Ivy Vine (my blog)

Excellent point sister - much wisdom in these thoughts there is.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

NaphtaliPress;

Thank you for the correction...

Well, apparently it's been going on for some 20+ years now and it's apparently gotten worse not better, I remember when I was stationed in Mtn. Home, Id., back in '82 part of the in-briefing we got on base was for women and blacks not to go to up into Moscow, because of the bigotry up in the area..

I was a new Christian back then, knew Christ about a year at the time, and had I not listened to the very wise Pastor on base at the time I would have gone up that way, only because it is such a beautiful area of the country...so even ignoring him hasn't caused him to go away...

So should we continue to ignore it, when things have only gotten worse??

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Bobbi Clark
Covenant Member
Pinewood Pres. (PCA) Middleburg

When I kept Silent, My bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. Psalm 32:3

What has been going on for 20+ years?

CT

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Hermonta Godwin
Christ The King PCA
Raleigh, NC