Does anybody have any knowledge on this issue? What are the arguments for and against? Is it within the confessional bounds?

__________________
Grace and Peace in Christ,

Brett Rader
Member
Redeemer Presbyterian(PCA)
Austin, TX

You mean simply whether or not an infant can have faith?

Luke 1:15 on John the Baptist: "For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink. He will also be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother's womb."

I suppose that means he was regenerate in the womb, and thus explains why he jumped when hearing Mary's voice (cf. 1:39ff.) In infant can conceivably have faith, but it will, of course, be the faith of an infant.

__________________
Casey Bessette
Westminster OPC • West Suburbs of Chicago • My Blog: Paradise Regained

"It is part of the calling of the ekklesia to learn to know the love of Christ that surpasses all knowledge and also to make known within the world of science 'the manifold wisdom of God' in order that the final end of theology, as of all things, may be that the name of the Lord is glorified. Theology and dogmatics, too, exist for the Lord's sake." — Herman Bavinck, Reformed Dogmatics, vol. 1, p. 46

Infants can have faith. John the Baptist lept at the voice of the Lord while he was yet in his mother's womb. Faith is supernatural! We cannot understand all of God's ways. I think it is to the glory of God to redeem those

Faith is of the Spirit and does not require outward confession of faith and repentance, or an intellectual assent to the Gospel idea. I don't think there is a Gospel of by grace through youth however or an age of accountability.

John MacArthur wrote a book called

Safe in the Arms of God

Safe in the Arms of God
Amazon (Thumbnails)

for the bereaved who have lost infants or young children before or after birth.

__________________
Ryan
1689 London Baptist Confession

I figured someone would think of that John the Baptist reference. You read my mind Casey.

I'm not asking if an infant can be elect, but if they can posess a real saving faith.

I was told I should read:

by Rich Lusk.

Has anybody read this book? I know some of the thoughts here about the author, but what about this specific book?

So, how would you define this faith?

These may be of help.

Theodore Beza, "œIt cannot be the case that those who have been sanctified by birth and have been separated from the children of unbelievers, do not have the seed or germ of faith."� (Confessio Chrsitanae Fidei, Book 4, Page 48

Francis Turretin, "œThe orthodox occupy the middle ground between Anabaptism and the Lutherans. They deny actual faith to infants against the Lutherans and maintain a seminal or radical and habitual faith is to be ascribed to them against the Anabaptists. Here it is to be remarked before all things: that we do not speak of the infants of any parents whomsoever (even of infidels and heathen), but only of believers, or Christians and the covenanted. (Institutes of Elenctic Theology, Volume 2, Page 583.)

Italian Reformer Dr. Jerome Zanchius (Professor of Old Testament at Strassburg) "The precondition of receiving baptism, is that the baptizees have been gifted with the Spirit of faith...."� Jerome Zanchius: Theological Works on External Worship IV c. 440. Cited in Kramer's op. cit. pp. 277f.

Caspar vander Heyden

"Seed rests for a time in the earth, and takes root before one sees from its fruit that it has germinated.... The root of understanding and of reason has been poured into all children, as soon as they receive life.... God has planted a seed and a root of regeneration in the children of the covenant.... In time, the fruits of the Spirit germinate from it. For he who has been baptized with Christ in His death, also grows from Him, like a tender shoot on a vine....
Caspar vander Heyden, Short and Clear Proofs of Holy Baptism, (Moderator of the great Dutch Reformed Synods of Emden in 1571 and Dordrecht in 1574)

Polyander
"We do, with the Scripture, pre-require faith and repentance in all that are to be baptized, at least according to the judgment of charity.... And that -- also in infants that are within the covenant, in whom...we affirm that there is the seed and Spirit of faith and repentance." Polyander and Others: Synopsis of Purer Theology, 1581, Disp. 44c & 47 v. 9. Cited in H. Heppe's Reformed Dogmatics, Baker, 1950 rep., p. 609.

Francis Junius
Junius stated, "faith in its first action...is required.... For it is inseparable from the person covenanted or to be baptized.... It is an error to maintain absolutely that children cannot believe. For they have the beginning of possessing faith, because they possess the Spirit of faith (Spiritum fidei)...."� Francis Junius' Theological Theses on Paedobaptism, page 139.

Lucas Trelcatius Senior (1587) (Professor of Reformed Theology at Leyden) "œinfants have the seed of faith" -- 'fidem habent infantes in sementi.'"¦"the child of believing parents is sanctified, although not producing the fruits of conversion." Junius: op. cit. II c. 287, and his Nature and Grace, pp. 83ff (as cited in Warfield's Two Stud. p. 203). Cf. too his On Paedobaptism 7 & 26.

William Bucanus (1609)
"œIt is not to be denied that the seed even of faith is poured into elect infants."

R. Puppius's Proof of Infant Baptism (1611).
As Calvinists, "our first position against the Lutherans who teach that baptism produces an active faith, is that tiny little children do not have an active faith...."Our second position, against the Anabaptists, is that the tiny little children are implanted with a seed of faith from which the later act of faith is born." In actual fact, however, "infants of believers have some seed of faith. At a more mature age, it goes forth to act. It accedes outwardly by human initiation, but inwardly by the Holy Spirit -- with a greater effect."

Andre Rivetus (French Reformed theologian, 1581) Professor at Leyden in 1620. Covenant children have "the beginnings of possessing...the seed of faith.... For as the Kingdom of heaven belongs to them, so too does the Spirit of faith (Matthew 19:14)....
A. Rivetus: Disputes 13, para. 13, p. 306; Synopsis of Purer Theology, III p. 305a, in Summa cont. tract.

Dr. William Ames
"Regeneration is a part of the promises, and applies to the children of the believers in a special way.... People are baptized because they are regarded as children of God, and not so that they should begin to become sons. Otherwise, there would be no reason not to baptize the children of unbelievers as well as children of believers."
William Ames: Bellarmine Unnerved, II:1 p. 337.

Dr. Voetius (Professor of Theology, Utrecht)
"Covenant Infants, "are entitled to baptism: not because they are 'regarded' as members of the covenant, but because as a rule they actually already 'possess' the first grace. And for this reason, and this reason alone, it (the Formula) reads 'that our children...have been sanctified in Christ, and therefore ought to be baptized.'"

"From the seed (e semine)..., the actual dispositions and habits are sustained by the ingrafted operation of the Holy Spirit in His Own time.... Just like a seed, the abilities and possession of faith make their appearances by fresh acts of the Holy Spirit in their own time." All born in the covenant, who die before coming to an age of discretion, are believed to partake of heavenly salvation
Voetius, Dutch Reformed Baptismal Formula of 1581, 238), as cited in A. Kuyper Sr.'s The Work of the Holy Spirit, ET, Eerdmans, Grand Rapids, 1941, p. 300. 239) G. Voetius: Theological Disputations (Biblical Preface IV pp. 254f). Cited in Kuyper's E Voto III pp. 57f. 240) Ib. II p. 417.

Dr. Richard Sibbes
"Infants that die in their infancy...are within the covenant.... They have the seed of believing, the Spirit of God, in them.... If when they come to years, they answer not the covenant of grace and the answer of a good conscience..., all is frustrate....we leave infants to the mercy of God." Richard Sibbes: Works, Banner of Truth, Edinburgh, 1983 ed., VI pp. 22f, & VII pp. 486f.

Dr. Stephen Marshall (Westminster Divine)
"œEver since God gathered a...select number out of the world to be His kingdom..., He would have the infants of all who are taken into covenant with Him to be accounted His -- to belong to Him...and not to the devils.... "Being only passive in them all..., of this first grace is the sacrament of baptism properly a seal.... Who ever will deny that infants are capable of these things, as well as grown men "“ must deny that any infants dying in their infancy are saved by Christ."
Stephen Marshall: A Sermon on the Baptizing of Infants, Coates, Bowtell, London, 1644, pp. 14, 25f, 32, 26f, 39, 41f, 45f & 51f.

Rev. Samuel Rutherford
"Who they are, who are to be baptized -- it is presumed they give some professed consent to the call.... What ground is there to exclude sucking children? For...there is no Name under heaven by which men may be saved, but by the Name of Jesus...."Since Christ prayed for infants and blessed them -- which is a praying for them -- He must own them as 'blessed' in Christ in Whom all the nations of the earth are blessed.... It is false that the promise is made only to the aged... It is made to their children.... For the way of their believing -- we leave it to the Lord."
Samuel Rutherford, The Covenant of Life Opened, Anderson, Edinburgh, 1655, I, chs. 13-14, pp. 72-91f; cf. too his Triumphof Faith (in his Sermons VIII).315) Id., cited in Coleborn's op. cit. pp. 21f.

Dr. Thomas Manton
"Of those children, dying in infancy, I assert that they have...the seed of faith...in the covenant.... It must be so.... Socinians...count the faith of infants a thing so impossible, that they say it is a greater dotage than the dream of a man in a fever....So those expressions of trusting God from the mother's womb. David speaks it of his own person, as a type of Christ. Psalm 22:9, 'Thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts'.... Job saith, chapter 31:18, 'from my youth, he was brought up with me as with a father; and I have guided her, from my mother's womb' -- meaning, he had a...disposition of pity put into him at his nativity. So also -- why may not a principle of faith be put into us in the womb, if God will work it?" "What is the faith which children have?... They have the seed of faith or some principle of grace conveyed into their souls by the hidden operation of the Spirit of God, which gives them an interest in Christ and so a right to His merit for their salvation...."� Thomas Manton: Complete Works, Maranatha, Worthington Pa, rep. ed., n.d. (ca. 1975), XIV pp. 81-89 & 205.

Dutch Calvinist Cornelius Poudroyen
Believers' children "have the Holy Spirit and the redemption from sin -- just as the adults do." "First Corinthians 7:14 -- 'Otherwise your children would be unclean; but now, they are holy.'" "œ"¦one cannot be holy, without the Holy Spirit.... Children have faith."

"The root and seed of faith, from which the Holy Spirit ignites and inflames their spiritual zeal when they increase in years.... They have the Spirit of Christ.... Wherever the Spirit of Christ is, there too is faith -- whether an active faith, as in adults; or whether the root and origin of faith, as in small children."
Wendelin of Heidelberg (1656, German Reformed theologian)
Christian System of Theology.
Collation of Christian Doctrine from the Calvinists and the Lutherans

"œThe 'possessed faith' which we attribute to infants, we truly call -- either 'the root' or 'the seed' of faith."
M.F. Wendelin: Christian System of Theology, Cassel, 1656. Cited in Kuyper's On the Sacraments p. 142 (in his Dog. Dict. IV). Also Wendelin's Collation of Christian Doctrine from the Calvinists and the Lutherans, Cassel, 1660, p. 352. See in Heppe's op. cit. pp. 624 & 714.

Dr. Herman Witsius
"There can hardly be any doubt that the statement regarding the regeneration of the children before baptism, according to the judgment of love, is the accepted view of the Dutch Church. In her Baptismal Formula, this question is put to parents who offer their children in baptism: 'Do you acknowledge that they are sanctified in Christ, and should be baptized as members of His congregation?' "Now this strengthens the views of those who place the initial regeneration of elect covenant children before baptism. So, I acknowledge I submit to this."

Dr. Francis Turretin
Covenant "children are just as much to be baptized as adults"¦the faith of covenant infants...consists of an initial action in them." That infant faith is "in root, not in fruit." It is characterized "by an internal action of the Spirit, not by an external demonstration in works."
Francis Turretin: Theological Elencthics p. 427.

Dr. Peter á Mastricht (Professor of Theology at Utrecht)
Children of the covenant should be baptized "because they partake of the benefits of the covenant of grace, of regeneration, and of the forgiveness of sin.... We are ordered in Holy Scripture to baptize as many as have received the Holy Spirit.... According to that Holy Scripture "“ Luke 1:15 & Jeremiah 1:5 -- tiny children receive the Holy Spirit."
Peter Van Mastricht: Theoretical-Practical Theology, Amsterdam, 1725, III p. 617. Cited in Kuyper's E Voto III p. 58.

There's more, but that should get you going.

__________________
C. Matthew McMahon, Ph.D.
John 5:39, "...search the Scriptures..."

Dr. C. Matthew McMahon.com, www.apuritansmind.com and www.puritanpublications.com
Member - Christ Presbyterian Church, Professor at WTS for Puritan History & Theology.

Suggested Tag: "I'm not user friendly."

Life Maxim: Everyone seems normal until you get to know them.
Like Card Magic? Check out: www.cardconjurer.com
Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

The only real reference to any type of infant faith that I have heard of is from Turretin and that is "seed" faith. Matt has talked about this in other threads. You may want to do a search.

IMHO, to subscribe "faith" or saving faith to an infant, is more than a bit speculative.

__________________
~Wayne Wylie~
Member, Mid Cities Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Ruling Elder - Inactive
http://www.mcopc.org
Bedford, TX

Job 28:28 - And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

I do not have it front of me right now, but essentially Lusk says that children born in the church have no need of conversion.

I believe that this is unbiblical and unconfessional. Apparently the PCA presbytery that Lusk attempt to transfer into thought so too.

__________________
Fredrick T. Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
Christ Church Blog

"The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

Yeah, I wouldn't agree with that at all. THanks Fred.

Very helpful Matthew. You are a great resource.

Well, we don't have to change the definition.

Q. 86. What is faith in Jesus Christ? A. Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving grace, whereby we receive and rest upon him alone for salvation, as he is offered to us in the gospel.

The faith of a child is as the Shorter describes it . . . but again, it is the faith of a child. This may sound a bit off mark, but consider this illustration: an infant knows his mother and trusts her and rests in her arms even before he can pronounce her name. Of course, this child must continue to manifest dependence as he grows for it to be a genuine trust.

What's the difference? All those given are called to regeneration... none will fall away.

What are the implications for this? Does this mean that someone who undergoes a true conversion later in life will need to be rebaptized? I don't understand...

I was an atheist and still of the elect. So there is a distinction between regeneration, election, and belief.

An elect infant that dies in infancy may be rightly presumed to be regenerate... I do not however believe that the Holy Spirit's application of regeneration necessarily comes at birth by any means. God works in his perfect timing. I think it varies.

There is relevant material here.

rsc

__________________
R. Scott Clark, D.Phil
Professor of Church History and Historical Theology

"For Christ, His Gospel, and His Church"
Associate Pastor
Oceanside URC
The Heidelblog

Read John Murray's Redemption Accomplished and Applied-- That's my view of the ordo salutis. I'm not rolling election and regeneration together.

Is he kidding? That is abdolutely rediculous, and a far cry from anything the historic church has taught.

I would tentatively agree.

I am not sure i am comfortable with the idea that infants need have a 'lower standard' of faith than adults.

Is there anything problematic with simply saying that infants cannot have faith (since their minds cannot comprehend enough) but not withstanding they are saved by the application of the legal merits of Christ's death as well as the holy spirit's power in regeneration?

__________________
Mark
Independent baptist
Singapore

I think whenever this issue comes up there is always a desire on the part of some to trace a line from election to the faith of that infant and describe that line as if it can be seen in reality.

The thing I appreciate about the quotes that Dr. McMahon and Dr. Clark present are that they describe what we know from the Covenant promises of God and not what we may guess about with our best speculative glasses on.

Remember, when Paul, or other Apostles, enter into discussions regarding election it is to give assurance that salvation rests with God. They never prescribe how that election will always work out in time and space. They don't prescribe regeneration as only occuring after some age of intellectual maturity nor do they ever prescribe that faith cannot grow to maturity.

I don't know the point at which I can measure a child and say that the person has sufficient notitia, assensus, and fiducia before, by my infallible judgement, I proclaim that the little person now has saving faith. I'm not so naive to presume that a child who parrots their parents with a Jesus Loves Me song is elect and ought to receive the Lord's Supper but then neither will I presume that the child is a child of the Devil until they memorize the Westminster Shorter Catechism and can PROVE, by intellectual defense, that they possess faith. In both cases what I lack is infallible knowledge from the point of that child's birth until his death as an old man. I can no more detect his regeneration with a scientific instrument than with my hearing when he calls on the Name of the Lord as an adult.

So in the end, I'm left with the wisdom of what was quoted. I don't want to fall off the cliff of some who presume too much of their children being in Covenant and I don't want to presume no status at all as those do who wait on their "scientific instruments" to prove to them that faith is resident.

I believe the nature of the Covenant is that we trust God's promises and rely on His Grace to raise our children. A child may or may not be regenerate in the womb or as a toddler or as a young boy or as a teenager or as a young adult. I'm not commanded to raise my children on the basis of guessing their status, but as my children brought by Grace into a Covenant household. I'm commanded to train them from the moment of their birth to call on the name of the Lord.

I do not wait until they express adult faith to teach them to pray words of adoration, confession, thanksgiving, and supplication. I teach them the grammar of faith so that when they are older they can synthesize it and embrace it with an adult mind. If a child is regenerate in the womb, as was John the Baptist, then he will display childlike adoration, confession, thanksgiving, and supplication. If he is unregenerate he will display the same qualities and I will not be able to guage a difference.

In the end, I am left with obeying God's commands as a parent, relying on His grace to obey, and resting in His Providence. To peer any further as to "...when is Johnny regenerate?" is pure speculation.

[Edited on 2-7-2006 by SemperFideles]

__________________
Rich
Northern VA
PCA

WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to build and promote your web site.
SoliDeoGloria.com - A Community for Reformed Thought and Discussion

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

The Following appeared in Reformed Baptist Theological Review.
The author is Michael Renihan