I just picked up Leithart's latest book "Solomon Amongst the Postmoderns" and was shocked to see an endorsement from him on the back.

That is all...

__________________
Travis Graham | Member | Christ The King (PCA) | Houston, TX

"The world will bow,
and knees will be broken,
for those who don't know how"
- Woven Hand

Not everything Leithart writes is a defense/presentation of the FV. For instance, if Leithart writes an article that defends the trinity, do we necessarily dismiss it for FV reasons?


I am not saying all of this as a defense of Leithart. I have my issues with him but let's not ignore good scholarship.

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

I do not know about the propriety of Horton endorsing Leithart's book. However, I know that he certainly is incredibly strong on the Christian being assured of his standing in Christ, which cannot be said of FV teaching...in a sense.

__________________
Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Well, just to let you know, I completely agree. I have always said that we should not discount everything that the FV proponents write, especially in regards to issues that do not fall within the sphere of the overall controversy. Personally I am huge fan of his writing style!

__________________
Travis Graham | Member | Christ The King (PCA) | Houston, TX

"The world will bow,
and knees will be broken,
for those who don't know how"
- Woven Hand

Is the book any good?

__________________
Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

I've actually listened to the lectures which make up the book. they are very, very academic. He steps inside the postmodernists shoes and implodes his worldview.

__________________
J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Are those lectures online anywhere?

__________________
Josiah
member, Third Avenue Baptist Church
Louisville, KY

http://www.carver319.com
______________________________________________
tolle lege, tolle lege

Not for free. AAPC"s website used to link to where you can purchase them. AUBURN AVENUE MEDIA :: MP3 CENTER Scroll down halfway. But to catch the "gist" of it, go to their video Podcast, In Media Res (it will open in Itunes) and find Leithart.
AUBURN AVENUE MEDIA :: PODCASTS

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Right.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

Horton is also a very mature theologian who is not given to reactionaryisms. Anyway, Leithart has read and interacted with some very hard and academic work on postmodernisms. How many people on this board are ready to critique John Milbank? I can assure you, it is not that easy. So when someone comes along and is able to do that we should be grateful (at least for the moment).

__________________
J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Yes, its a pity there was not more stuff like this.

__________________
Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

James Arminius has a really great article on the Trinity in his works. Every good Christian shoudl read it!

Not.

Well, actually, he does have good things to say on the Trinity. So shoudl we read him?

We want to remember that it would safer to read Calvin on the doctrine of the Trinity instead of Arminius, even though Arminius has good things to say about the Trinity.

Do we need to read Arminius on the Trinity? Not really. Actually, not at all. I'd opt for reading those who are theologically well rounded. Who knows how much or how little one is influenced by underlying subtelties of those who are not well-rounded theologically?

Like: "Wow, I just read an awesome artilce by Arminius on the Trinity. I guess he is not all bad. I wonder what else he has written that was good. Maybe I'll go check all his works out of the public library and read through them!"

When the devil invades the church, he does so by mixing truth and error. He never walks in with a pitchfork and forked tongue guising a red suit.

In other words, is there anyone out there that is better to read than endorsing Leithart on Postmodernism that does an equally well job even though he may say some good things? Then that begs the question as to make one wonder why one would want to endorse someone who is basically theologically off on matters of salvation, election, justification, historical theology, and a host of other theological paradigms.

There are far too many other theologically sound books and authors to read than dabbling on the edge between good and error.

__________________
C. Matthew McMahon, Ph.D.
John 5:39, "...search the Scriptures..."

Portal Site - Dr. C. Matthew McMahon.com
www.apuritansmind.com and www.puritanpublications.com
Scholar in Residence at Christ Presbyterian Church, Professor at WTS for Puritan History & Theology.

Life Maxim: Everyone seems normal until you get to know them.
Like Card Magic? Check out: www.cardconjurer.com

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

So, was Dr Horton wrong to endorse a Leithart book for the second time (since he had prevously endorsed Leithart's book on the Lord's Supper)?

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

The problem is that FVers like Doug Wilson and Peter Leithart have been given free reign due to the cloister Calvinism that prevails among most orthodox Reformed thinkers.

__________________
Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

Was JI PAcker wrong to endorse ECT?

Yes, Dr. Horton has better things to do, and we all have better books to read on both Postmodernism and the Lord's Supper.

__________________
C. Matthew McMahon, Ph.D.
John 5:39, "...search the Scriptures..."

Portal Site - Dr. C. Matthew McMahon.com
www.apuritansmind.com and www.puritanpublications.com
Scholar in Residence at Christ Presbyterian Church, Professor at WTS for Puritan History & Theology.

Life Maxim: Everyone seems normal until you get to know them.
Like Card Magic? Check out: www.cardconjurer.com

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

That begs the question. Perhaps there are other books that we should read on PM, but you can't determine that with your a priori judgments. Why turn down a .44 magnum just because it has a lot of recoil?

Leithart's book Against Christianity was a tour de force against post-liberal theologians Lindbeck and Milbank (men whom the larger scholarly world take seriously). They are not easy reads and even worse, Milbank's challenges to evangelicalism and calvinism, while I think wrong-headed, are not easily dismissed.

EDIT: I say this as someone who probably won't read Leithart's book due to time and money constraints.

__________________
J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

I need to clarify something. My statement earlier was about Dr. Horton, NOT Leithart. L's 9 responses (or however many there were-can't recall at the moment) were just terrible. My point concerning Horton was that I don't think he comes close to being Pro FV, particularly given his teachings on Law/Gospel and Assurance.

I was an Arminian.

I read Jacob Arminius.

I knew Jacob Arminius.

And let me tell you, Peter Leithart is no Jacob Arminius!

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

All joking aside...

At what point are we in danger of slipping into some form of Steeliteism?

If we are to banish the works of ministers ("in good standing") are we really that far from the Steelite (false) doctrine of " occasional hearing"?

__________________
Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

I would not want to recommend that infants in the faith read certain heretical books. But as believers mature in the faith I would think it's important to read books from other perspectives. This is so we can interact with different perspectives faithfully.

Don Carson has noticed that the PhD students who turned to liberalism, were those that had read from only one perspective in their undergraduate years.

As I mark undergraduate essays I want the student to have read other positions with which they don't agree. I want them to faithfully represent these other positions, and not knock down straw men.

It raises the issue of when a group of Christians become a cult. No one tradition has everything right. If all we do is read books from one perspective we retain the blinkers of that perspective (i.e. we retain a certain blindness). The only way to have our blinkers removed is if we read other perspectives. If we can't read the works of people with whom we don't agree that's moving in the direction of a cult. How can we ascertain if we do or don't agree with them? If truth is on our side what is there to fear?

We don't fight error by banning books. We do so by exposing error cogently.

If Leithart's attack on postmodernism is a good one why not recommend it?

Every blessing.

__________________
Marty

"There is nothing so necessary to draw us to repentance as good thoughts of God." (Thomas Manton)

Perhaps we should declare Horton a heretic as well? Pronouncing anathemas is a favorite pastime among us Reformed folk, so we ought to be able to have a little fun with it, right? How 'bout a lecture series entitled "Horton Hears a Hooretic"?