God requires a diligent use of Christ's ordinances in order to be saved.

MOSES · #1 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 11:41 AM

Do the FV folks teach that "covenant faithfullness" is required of us by God in order to be saved?

Would a diligent use of Christ's ordinances be considered "covenant faithfullness"?

I am trying to determine what the FV's difference is from the WLC's teaching that God does require a diligent use of Christ's ordinances in order to be saved.

The Westminster Larger Cathechism asks what God requires of man in order to be saved, i.e., to escape the wrath and curse of God.
It says:

That we may escape the wrath and curse of God due to us by reason of the transgression of the law, he requireth of us repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ, and the diligent use of the outward means whereby Christ communicates to us the benefits of his mediation.
(answer to question 153)

Again, 3 things are required to escape the wrath and curse of God, i.e., to be saved.

- Repentance
- Faith in Christ
- A diligent use of the outward means

Note: the outward means are all Christ's ordinances, and ecspecially the word, sacraments, and prayer.

Again. Can this diligent use of the outward means be exactly what the FV means by "covenant faithfullness"?

Does anyone have a problem with the teaching that a DILIGENT use of Christ's ordinances is necessary to escape the wrath and curse of God, i.e., be saved?

Thanks in advance for your interaction on this topic.

wsw201 · #2 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Do the FV folks teach that "covenant faithfullness" is required of us by God in order to be saved?

Its not quite that simple. It also depends upon which FV'er your are considering. Their not all that monolithic. But in general covenant faithfulness to some extent is essential.

Quote:

Would a diligent use of Christ's ordinances be considered "covenant faithfullness"?

It would be part of it. Basically as long as you are not under discipline you would be considered "covenantly faithful".

Quote:

The Westminster Larger Cathechism asks what God requires of man in order to be saved, i.e., to escape the wrath and curse of God.
It says:

That we may escape the wrath and curse of God due to us by reason of the transgression of the law, he requireth of us repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ, and the diligent use of the outward means whereby Christ communicates to us the benefits of his mediation.
(answer to question 153)

Again, 3 things are required to escape the wrath and curse of God, i.e., to be saved.

- Repentance
- Faith in Christ
- A diligent use of the outward means

Note: the outward means are all Christ's ordinances, and ecspecially the word, sacraments, and prayer.

Again. Can this diligent use of the outward means be exactly what the FV means by "covenant faithfullness"?

Does anyone have a problem with the teaching that a DILIGENT use of Christ's ordinances is necessary to escape the wrath and curse of God, i.e., be saved?

Well can someone be saved without being baptized or partaking of the Lord's Supper? Yes they can because these are not "saving" ordinances. It is through the ministry of the Word that we are saved. the sacraments and prayer are for bolstering ones faith. Consider Chapter 14 of the WCF on Saving Faith:

I. The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls, is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts, and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word, by which also, and by the administration of the sacraments, and prayer, it is increased and strengthened.

Semper Fidelis · #3 (**permalink**) 06-06-2008, 11:59 PM

Shawn,

Before you start new threads about the FV, it might be nice if you actually took the time to understand what was stated in other threads.

Do you really need me to re-type everything about the difference between those that are really united to Christ by faith due to the grace of election? Faithfulness is not something that we maintain in order to maintain a union with Christ that can be broken by Covenant, faithfulness is a fruit of a renewed heart that has been justified by faith alone. The heart of the justified will be faithful and will persevere and must/will avail themselves of the means of grace toward that end all the days of their life.

If you cannot figure out the difference between those two notions after I keep typing them then I don't know why it's so hard to understand.

Let me ask you something plainly:

1. Do you think you are united to Christ because you are baptized but you might lose that union with Him if you do not remain faithful to Him?

or

2. Do you believe that you are united to Christ by faith and that baptism and the Lord's Supper confirm that to you and strengthen you in it toward His service?