...

__________________
Richard
CofE
UK

Two of my friends who like the FV wound up going Anglican, as the FV fits nicely within its doctrinal parameters.

To be honest, however, considering all the problems the CoE has within its ranks, the FV is fairly low on list. Might even be an improvement for some theologians in it, which is an unnerving thought.

__________________
Anne Ivy
Christ Chapel Bible Church
Fort Worth, Texas

Married to Don, mother of six, grandmother to an ever-increasing brood.

The Ivy Vine (my blog)

The highlighted bit is damnable heresy. Just because they say they do not believe in merit does not mean that they do not believe in merit. This is clearly implying that good works are of the essence of faith - not the fruit of faith. On this basis, we are ultimately saved by our works of covenantal obedience, and not by the imputation of Christ's active obedience.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

Anything which teaches damnable heresy - under the pretext of being Reformed - is most certainly a grave danger. At least you definitely know the Liberals are not orthodox. These guys are more slippery.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

You know, the FV really hasn't caught on in Baptist circles that I can tell. Maybe I'm just not looking in the "right" areas. Obviously it's a Presbyterian thing but I'm sure it has legs and is only a time before it makes it's way to some Reformed Baptist Churches. Does anyone know whether that's already happened?

__________________
Bill Brown
Elder
Grace Baptist Church
Anne Arundel County, Maryland

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

The FV may be "slippery" but it leads to error rather than necessarily being error in itself. Most of the confusion comes from a refusal of the FV to debate on confessional terms, not due to actual heresy itself.

I would agree with Gryphonette that if the C of E went FV it would be a move in the right direction. The majority of the C of E do not even believe in biblical authority.

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Mike
London City Presbyterian Church
London
England

"Surely, we wish to be orthodox, but we must first learn what real orthodoxy is. Surely, we wish to be progressive, but we must first have a basis to progress from."

Given FV's major emphasis on paedobaptism and covenant theology, it is doubtful you will see many FVers in Baptist churches. Despite the boogeymen erected on Reformed blogs, it really is only a tiny subset of the Reformed church.

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Confused, but still believe the Bible, many seem to be.

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HaigLaw, ruling elder
Grace PCA, Shreveport, LA
http://www.xanga.com/HaigLaw

So you feel it's an entirely different gospel, then?

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HaigLaw, ruling elder
Grace PCA, Shreveport, LA
http://www.xanga.com/HaigLaw

You might see former baptists go from credo immediately to FV...but I don't think there's much chance of it spilling into Baptist circles.

One of my best friends went from baptist to paedo...based partly on discussions I had with him...but mostly from the writings of FV (James Jordan especially)...and now he's Roman Catholic.

__________________
Craig French
Married and father of a beautiful daughter.
Member of Christ The Word, PCA
Toledo, OH

MY BLOG

Yeah, paedobaptism would be a big step for any baptist.

__________________

HaigLaw, ruling elder
Grace PCA, Shreveport, LA
http://www.xanga.com/HaigLaw

Are his initals "J.B."

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

I think you need to clarify what you mean by stating that the FV is a "boogeyman".

It is certainly more than a "fear" that men and women in NAPARC congregations have been led astray by the error, not the least of which were personal friends of mine.

If, by the statement you only intend to note that it is relatively small group of people then that is generally accurate but it still doesn't qualify as a boogeyman when the error still infests and harms real life people in Reformed Churches that have taken great pains to investigate and condemn the error.

__________________
Rich
Northern VA
OPC

WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to build and promote your web site.
SoliDeoGloria.com - A Community for Reformed Thought and Discussion

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

If there are genuine dangers then I would not want to deny them. However, I have seen some people list FV as the number one threat to Christian faith today.

__________________
J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Well, we shouldn't be party to being extreme in either direction. Just because it is an overstatement to state that it is the biggest threat to Christianity does not imply the only alternative is that it is merely a "boogeyman".

__________________
Rich
Northern VA
OPC

WebsiteMaven - Web Hosting Reviews, Guides, and Advice to build and promote your web site.
SoliDeoGloria.com - A Community for Reformed Thought and Discussion

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Yep.

__________________
Craig French
Married and father of a beautiful daughter.
Member of Christ The Word, PCA
Toledo, OH

MY BLOG

In some denominations or churches, the FV is simply not a problem, but there might be a significant attack on the veracity of Scripture, or the divinity of Christ, or His physical resurrection, or the nature of the atonement ("cosmic child abuse"?).

If a denomination's been quite sound but an error like the FV comes sidling in, then by all means, go after it with gusto. Whup it good before it can take root.

But were I in the ECUSA I wouldn't be especially concerned about the FV....I'd worry about that lunatic woman running the show, and her clear rejection of Christ as the sole means of salvation.

Battle the tiger actually in YOUR cage, not the tiger in the cage three over.

__________________
Anne Ivy
Christ Chapel Bible Church
Fort Worth, Texas

Married to Don, mother of six, grandmother to an ever-increasing brood.

The Ivy Vine (my blog)

And the "YOUR" isn't Rich or anyone in particular. The whole thing was meant as a general reflection.

Rereading it, I fear it comes across as directed at Rich, and it's not.

__________________
Anne Ivy
Christ Chapel Bible Church
Fort Worth, Texas

Married to Don, mother of six, grandmother to an ever-increasing brood.

The Ivy Vine (my blog)

The problem is that the "boogeyman" is running loose in our "tiny subset", which makes it a big deal.

__________________
~Wayne Wylie~
Member, Mid Cities Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Ruling Elder - Inactive
http://www.mcopc.org
Bedford, TX

Job 28:28 - And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

If one believes that view of justification, then they believe another gospel.

__________________
Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

I read their writings and see your point. Otoh, I have friends in their camp who I think don't get it the way it's taught, and probably are true believers. So I exercise charity.

Sorta like I view Dispensationalism as heresy, but I was in dispensational churches my first 8 years as a believer, 1969-77, before I discovered the Reformed Faith and the PCA, and it was just all over my head. Once I "got it," I quickly left it. I believe there are sincere believers still in it, who still don't get it, but believe what the Holy Spirit has put in their hearts, rather than what C.I. Scofield's heretical footnotes try to teach them.

It's just another example of the wheat and the tares, growing side by side until the final reaping -- imho.

__________________

HaigLaw, ruling elder
Grace PCA, Shreveport, LA
http://www.xanga.com/HaigLaw