What does Wilson believe concerning worldview?

He is here in Jackson and I want to know if I want to go hear him tomorrow.

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Rev. Andrew J. Barnes
Husband of Dena
Father of Oliver
Master of Bruce
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

What can I say, I like blogs!

Can you be more specific?

I imagine he would be in large agreement with Hoffecker's books on worldview. Creator-creature distinction, creation ex nihilo, supremacy of Scripture, etc.

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

I don't know. So no, I just know he is speaking in town and want to know if I should go hear him or not.

Would he say anything that would be good or controversial?

Why would you not go hear him?

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James Helbert, Wytheville, VA
Providence Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCUS
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I dont know if I really want to go sit and hear someone speak on worldview on a Friday night, especially if it is Doug Wilson who I personally believe to be heterodox.

I spent a Friday evening listening to N. T. Wright. I'm glad that I went. It was a "horse's mouth" experience. (If that makes sense.)

It does, but worldview is so much more boring.

If it was, you know, Baptism, Covenant Theology, etc. I'd be there in a heartbeat.

Worldview, boring? I guess it's a matter of taste. I'd go regardless - he's likely to be quite good on the subject I think.

Todd

ps - I gather he's not speaking at First Pres.

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Todd K. Pedlar
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He is speaking at the old sanctuary of a baptist church hosted by a CREC church in town.

I'd go hear him.

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Rev. Lane Keister
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But you are best friends with him Lane...

Well, then, knock me off the Puritan Board!

Worldview is exciting. It provides a launching pad to angle at many different loci in theology and experience. So what on what he says elsewhere? This is likely to be good. Personally, I would go hear someone like John Milbank speak even though I really, really disagree with him on some parts.

If I had the authority I would...

I personally, dont believe we should be friends with such people.

Did you go hear him?

No but I heard some stuff from my friend who went. I had to stay home with my wife.

Romans922;

No offense intended here, but you 'had' to stay home with your wife or you 'had the pleasure of staying home with your wife instead"???

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Bobbi Clark
Covenant Member
Pinewood Pres. (PCA) Middleburg

When I kept Silent, My bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. Psalm 32:3

Well, I said what I said. 'I had to' because I had to as my duty and a rule of my house that my wife and I set...is what I particularly was referencing (That we have a date night every friday).

However, it was a pleasure being with her, but that wasn't what I was referencing because I was talking about a reason why I stayed home not what I did while I was at home. If you want me to go into further specifics about my home life, I will have to refrain since it is a private matter.

Romans922;

I wasn't meaning any offense, and I'm sorry if it came across that way, please forgive me for that.

I didn't think you did at all.

I saw Dena's post before she deleted it! Krogers and a movie sounds better than DW.

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So is Doug wilson considered apostate? Heretic? What? I don't have a very good understanding of the NPP and its seriousness.

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Andrew DeShazo
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Technically speaking, he is not NPP. And words like "apostate" and "heretic" have been used beyond all usefulness in this debate.

I figured as much. Will a comparison help?

Does:

Doug Wilson = Joel Osteen

Doug Wilson = Bishop Spong

Doug Wilson = Billy Graham

Basically, is he WAAAY out there or is he just a bit different?

He is out of accord with the Westminster Standards!

No...Wilson has read his bible at least once.

Doug Wilson is a theonomic, inerrantist, patriarchalist, 6 day creationist, etc. Not quite Spong material.

No...Wilson's views on the objectivity of the covenant cancel that one out.

Just a bit different. Some have said he is way out on the standards. Perhaps. But that is not the most devastating rebuttal one can make. It's more like this: his theology of the covenant strains some of his claims on calvinism. In other words, his covenant theology appears to be at odds with his calvinism.

Interesting. I've never thought of it in precisely this way before. Thanks for this perspective (no pun or joke of any sort intended).

I felt it important to mention the calvinism aspect because his blog has a whole section defending the high doctrines of TULIP. He also wrote a very fine conversational (e.g., dialogue) presentation of Calvinism. That is what makes the FV thing so peculiar: does he take away with one hand (FV) what he offers with the other (Calvinism)?

I think this is a much more mature way of dealing with the topic. Had we done it in this fashion, and not with H-bombs, the FV never would have gained the popularity (I am against it, fwiw). When you call someone a heretic and evil person, they tend to dig in the trenches.

From what I understand, he's absolutely brilliant. The same with N.T. Wright. My brother in law is reading a book of his, not related to NPP or FV, and says the guy is heads and shoulders above most. He's a bona fide geemus.

on both counts. This is precisely what makes their "bad stuff" so dangerous. It is easy to get swept away by someone's brilliance and not watch where they are leading you. IMO.

I wouldn't call Doug Wilson a genius. He's not a dunce but his intellect does not dazzle.

I think his appeal is his folksiness as much as anything. I used to like reading him but I read another book recently and I just got tired of all the pithy "zingers". He tends to speak somewhat in aphorisms and that probably makes him seem profound to many people.

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PCA, Northern VA
Student, New Geneva Theological Seminary

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I wasn't aware that those three represented the three "colors of theology" and that all others were simply variations of the three like RGB are with a CRT.

One way to characterize him would be like that Sesame Street skit "One of these kids is doing his own thing...."

You may notice that I'm not the kind of guy to throw around that term and many of the notables don't actually use those terms either. I do think, however, that, for all his complaining about tone, Wilson is chief among sinners with his so-called "serrated edge". If you want real vitriol then try visiting an FV-friendly joint for a period of time to see the kind of emotion that gets going when you start pointing out the obvious fact that FV is un-Confessional.

It would be interesting to me, though, if FV had been condemned in a more "civil" fashion what kind of proponents it would have. The fact is that, because it is such a pariah in the Reformed mainstream, that it tends to attract the militant. It actually speaks to the kind of people that flock to it when all the major NAPARC bodies are one-by-one condemning it. The folks left supporting it are all those that really know better - the truly converted that are smart enough to see that the rest of the Reformed Church has apostasized and only they are left to keep it together in their Confederation of micro-Churches.

I was thinking recently about how hard-core Doug Wilson is against public schools and had even read his book about how he thought Christian parents ought to create a school to insulate their kids from all the evil forces out there that would destroy the reformed worldview they were seeking to instill in their kids.

In the process, the advocate himself might have made sure his kids (and the kids in his Church) got a worldview but, in the end, it wasn't reformed. In the end, these kids are getting the Federal Vision as their inheritance.

I connect these things perhaps a bit differently than some but I actually think the basic issue that has always characterized DW's works and characterizes the FV movement is a "smarter than thou" undercurrent. There is a dangerous sanctimonious attitude that I think can cause any movement that starts out well to devolve because the attitude itself is the fruit of a heart that is not bent ulimately by the Gospel of grace but intellectual pride.

He reminds me of an independent fundy who tried on the Presbyterian Doctor's gown. And now he thinks he is something he isn't. Reformed.

He has some weird views on the Covenant of Works and Grace. He believes in one main Covenant instead of the bi-covenantal view of Works and Grace.

Here is what Doctor R. Scott Clark wrote concerning this kind of thinking when I asked him about Wilkins view on this matter.

* my clarification

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I wasn't attempting to give all of the colors of theology. However, two are blatant heretics, and the other is an Arminian evangelical. Obviously, one is closer to orthodoxy than the others.

Zenas,

I wasn't trying to be overly critical. Just a note that it was an interesting way to characterize him among the variants that could characterize him.

That statement is spot on. Read John Otis' book Danger in the Camp: An Analysis and Refutation of the Heresies of the Federal Vision for more. It is amazing that these men still claim to be Reformed; at best they are Arminian, at worst they are nearly Roman Catholics.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

When I first heard it described to me, I was wondering how Roman Catholic Sacramentalism had snuck into orthodox Protestantism.

Regardless of where you stand on the issue, read John Willamson Nevin on it. That is probably how Wilson would answer the question.

So were Spurgeon, J.C. Ryle and Martyn Lloyd-Jones. So are D.A. Carson, Tom Nettles, Russell Moore, Al Mohler, James White and Gene Edward Veith to name a few. Surely you aren't saying that you won't go see anyone who can't subscribe to the Westminster Standards.

(Of course I understand the difference between those who don't try to say they are Reformed and the FV et. al. who do desire to be recognized as Reformed)

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Christian
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