No Country for Old Men

Semper Fidelis · #1 (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 10:04 PM

I watched that last night. It was like watching the Book of Ecclesiastes regarding life under the sun and I wonder if the author had that book in mind when he wrote it.. Has anyone seen it?

Theoretical · #2 (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semper Fidelis

I watched that last night. It was like watching the Book of Ecclesiastes regarding life under the sun and I wonder if the author had that book in mind when he wrote it.. Has anyone seen it?

Wow, that's a really interesting take on it that I hadn't considered, but having seen it, I have to agree. That horrible sense of emptiness and futility at the end really does have an Ecclesiastes flavor to it.

JasonGoodwin · #3 (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theoretical

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semper Fidelis

I watched that last night. It was like watching the Book of Ecclesiastes regarding life under the sun and I wonder if the author had that book in mind when he wrote it.. Has anyone seen it?

Wow, that's a really interesting take on it that I hadn't considered, but having seen it, I have to agree. That horrible sense of emptiness and futility at the end really does have an Ecclesiastes flavor to it.

I heard that this particular flick was extremely violent.

Not much of a movie watcher. Too busy with the books and the Net itself.

panta dokimazete · #4 (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JasonGoodwin

I heard that this particular flick was extremely violent.

Me too - is it? And what would be the rationale to warrant watching it? Genuinely curious...

joshua · #5 (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 11:27 PM

I hated it. A movie with no justice. yuck.

JasonGoodwin · #6 (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshua

I hated it. A movie with no justice. yuck.

A comment like yours gives credence to why Michael Medved calls the entertainment industry Hollyweird, and with plenty of good reason.

C. Matthew McMahon · #7 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 12:11 AM

**CHIME IN***

I did see it.

It wasn't about justice.

It wasn't about crime, perse.

It wasn't about a killer, perse.

It was about how there is no real country for old men.

What does that MEAN? You'll have to watch it again.

The movie was about, ALL about, the sherriff.

Personally, because I "got it" in that way, I thought it was thought provoking. (Bar the violence.)

***CHIME OUT***

theologae · #8 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. Matthew McMahon

The movie was about, ALL about, the sherriff.

Agreed. I really enjoyed this movie.
As a side note, this film was shot in my home state with my current city of residence (Albuquerque) standing in for El Paso.

larryjf · #9 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 12:48 AM

Sailing to Byzantium (Yeats)
That is no country for old men. The young
In one another's arms, birds in the trees
- Those dying generations - at their song,
The salmon-falls, the mackerel-crowded seas,
Fish, flesh, or fowl, commend all summer long
Whatever is begotten, born, and dies.
Caught in that sensual music all neglect
Monuments of unageing intellect.

An aged man is but a paltry thing,
A tattered coat upon a stick, unless
Soul clap its hands and sing, and louder sing
For every tatter in its mortal dress,
Nor is there singing school but studying
Monuments of its own magnificence;
And therefore I have sailed the seas and come
To the holy city of Byzantium.

O sages standing in God's holy fire
As in the gold mosaic of a wall,
Come from the holy fire, perne in a gyre,
And be the singing-masters of my soul.
Consume my heart away; sick with desire
And fastened to a dying animal
It knows not what it is; and gather me
Into the artifice of eternity.

Once out of nature I shall never take
My bodily form from any natural thing,
But such a form as Grecian goldsmiths make
Of hammered gold and gold enamelling
To keep a drowsy Emperor awake;
Or set upon a golden bough to sing
To lords and ladies of Byzantium
Of what is past, or passing, or to come.

Semper Fidelis · #10 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. Matthew McMahon

**CHIME IN***

I did see it.

It wasn't about justice.

It wasn't about crime, perse.

It wasn't about a killer, perse.

It was about how there is no real country for old men.

What does that MEAN? You'll have to watch it again.

The movie was about, ALL about, the sherriff.

Personally, because I "got it" in that way, I thought it was thought provoking. (Bar the violence.)

***CHIME OUT***

I got that part Matthew but it still seemed like life under the sun to me.

Poimen · #11 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theologae

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. Matthew McMahon

The movie was about, ALL about, the sherriff.

Agreed. I really enjoyed this movie.

Thomas2007 · #12 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 01:28 AM

My wife and I watched a few days ago, I really didn't enjoy it that much - but I did, along with Dr. McMahon find the references to the Sheriff and the despair that the old social foundations of truth and justice were crumbled to be disconcerting. I didn't think at all about Ecclesiastes. But, overall, it's two hours I'd like to have back as I didn't really find it entertaining - just a sad commentary on unbridled wickedness.

danmpem · #13 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semper Fidelis

I watched that last night. It was like watching the Book of Ecclesiastes regarding life under the sun and I wonder if the author had that book in mind when he wrote it.. Has anyone seen it?

That was exactly what I thought when I read the book, and I definitely got the idea that Cormac McCarthy had Ecclesiastes in mind.

danmpem · #14 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 02:37 AM

As someone who really liked the book, and then reaaally liked the movie, I find it interesting that the criticism the movie is receiving here is for the very reasons I liked it so much (and this is not an attack on anyone's opinion, just my own thoughts):
- There was no justice in the film. Personally, I like stories when the bad guy gets away, or the hero dies in the end. It's a lot more like real life from our perspective while here on Earth.
- There is something to be said about the fact that the film "was not entertaining." I think that maybe that was the point.

Semper Fidelis · #15 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danmpem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semper Fidelis

I watched that last night. It was like watching the Book of Ecclesiastes regarding life under the sun and I wonder if the author had that book in mind when he wrote it.. Has anyone seen it?

That was exactly what I thought when I read the book, and I definitely got the idea that Cormac McCarthy had Ecclesiastes in mind.

You always seemed like a smart lad to me.

joshua · #16 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 03:12 AM

I, too, "got" the movie; I didn't think it was *about* justice. I just didn't *like* it for that reason. One reason I like some action movies (particularly Eastwood's westerns) are due to the wicked "gettin' theirs" in the end. I know, I know...how shallow and predictable. What can I say? I'm easy.

ColdSilverMoon · #17 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 09:44 AM

I loved this movie, though like Josh I kept waiting for that "twist" at the end to get justice. I have thought about it a lot, and I got the Ecclesiastes vibe as well, but moreso how little we actually control in life. Chagur on the one hand seems to be able to find and kill people at will - almost like he has their lives in the palm of his hand. But the ending (I won't spoil it for those who haven't seen), demonstrates how little control he ultimately has in life.

To me it goes along with the sheriff's story at the end about shooting the cows. The rancher killed thousands of cows without a problem, but then randomly when he has to shoot one the bullet bounces back and hits him. On the one hand he had the lives of those cows in his power, but a fluke, random act showed how little he was actually in control.

Very interesting movie....

Kevin · #18 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 10:25 AM

I haven't had time to watch the movie yet, but I did read the book last weekend.

It is all about futility of life. The sheriff finds at the end of his life he is just the same in the core of his self (his character) as he was when he was young. The role of his wife as the normative character in the novel is very interesting to me. She "knows" him yet still loves him. She knows that he is not the hero that all of the voters see, yet she loves him anyway.

She is an interesting contrast with the other female/wife. She knows the worst yet still loves him. Contrasted with the other character who knows nothing yet thinks the worst.

BTW, is the hitman satan?

matthew11v25 · #19 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 10:41 AM

The acting was superb. I loved the scene with Tommy Lee Jones outside the Hotel room and the ending monologue.

It did remind me of Ecclesiastes. I am not sure why but chapter 12 came to mind:

Ecc 12:1 Remember also your Creator in the days of your youth, before the evil days come and the years draw near of which you will say, "I have no pleasure in them";
Ecc 12:2 before the sun and the light and the moon and the stars are darkened and the clouds return after the rain,
Ecc 12:3 in the day when the keepers of the house tremble, and the strong men are bent, and the grinders cease because they are few, and those who look through the windows are dimmed,
Ecc 12:4 and the doors on the street are shut--when the sound of the grinding is low, and one rises up at the sound of a bird, and all the daughters of song are brought low--
Ecc 12:5 they are afraid also of what is high, and terrors are in the way; the almond tree blossoms, the grasshopper drags itself along, and desire fails, because man is going to his eternal home, and the mourners go about the streets--
Ecc 12:6 before the silver cord is snapped, or the golden bowl is broken, or the pitcher is shattered at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern,
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.
Ecc 12:8 Vanity of vanities, says the Preacher; all is vanity.

Scott · #20 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 02:40 PM

I heard that this is a post-modern western. Is that description accurate?

Would the movie comply with the Hayes Production Code, which was the code that governed movies until the 1960s? Here is an excerpt:

Quote:

A Code to Govern the Making of Talking, Synchronized and Silent Motion Pictures. Formulated and formally adopted by The Association of Motion Picture Producers, Inc. and The Motion Picture Producers and Distributors of America, Inc. in March 1930.

Motion picture producers recognize the high trust and confidence which have been placed in them by the people of the world and which have made motion pictures a universal form of entertainment.

They recognize their responsibility to the public because of this trust and because entertainment and art are important influences in the life of a nation.

Hence, though regarding motion pictures primarily as entertainment without any explicit purpose of teaching or propaganda, they know that the motion picture within its own field of entertainment may be directly responsible for spiritual or moral progress, for higher types of social life, and for much correct thinking.

. . .

General Principles

1. No picture shall be produced that will lower the moral standards of those who see it. Hence the sympathy of the audience should never be thrown to the side of crime, wrongdoing, evil or sin.

2. Correct standards of life, subject only to the requirements of drama and entertainment, shall be presented.

3. Law, natural or human, shall not be ridiculed, nor shall sympathy be created for its violation.

Particular Applications

I. Crimes Against the Law
These shall never be presented in such a way as to throw sympathy with the crime as against law and justice or to inspire others with a desire for imitation.

sastark · #21 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott

I heard that this is a post-modern western. Is that description accurate?

Would the movie comply with the Hayes Production Code, which was the code that governed movies until the 1960s? Here is an excerpt:

Quote:

A Code to Govern the Making of Talking, Synchronized and Silent Motion Pictures. Formulated and formally adopted by The Association of Motion Picture Producers, Inc. and The Motion Picture Producers and Distributors of America, Inc. in March 1930.

Motion picture producers recognize the high trust and confidence which have been placed in them by the people of the world and which have made motion pictures a universal form of entertainment.

They recognize their responsibility to the public because of this trust and because entertainment and art are important influences in the life of a nation.

Hence, though regarding motion pictures primarily as entertainment without any explicit purpose of teaching or propaganda, they know that the motion picture within its own field of entertainment may be directly responsible for spiritual or moral progress, for higher types of social life, and for much correct thinking.

. . .

General Principles

1. No picture shall be produced that will lower the moral standards of those who see it. Hence the sympathy of the audience should never be thrown to the side of crime, wrongdoing, evil or sin.

2. Correct standards of life, subject only to the requirements of drama and entertainment, shall be presented.

3. Law, natural or human, shall not be ridiculed, nor shall sympathy be created for its violation.

Particular Applications

I. Crimes Against the Law
These shall never be presented in such a way as to throw sympathy with the crime as against law and justice or to inspire others with a desire for imitation.

Well, I certainly felt no sympathy for the Chugar (the villain), but I too was disappointed by the lack of justice at the end of the movie. As has already been stated (and I won't give anything away), it was demonstrated that Chugar was not in control as he thought he was, but I was still unsatisfied when the credits rolled.