Witnessing to a Jehovahs Witness

John Gill · #1 (**permalink**) 09-24-2007, 12:06 PM

There is a man at my work who is a Jehovahs witness. We talk a lot and have many moral principles in common.
I recently asked him for literature about the JW, esspecially concerning Jesus Christ not being God.
I am in the process of refuting his literature and digging up all the passages in the Bible that state that Christ is God.

In particular I'm wondering if Isaiah 66 could be used. We know it is Jesus speaking because in vs 2 He says "for all these things hath mine hand made,..." JWs agree that Jesus created all things but the term "Lord" has nothing to do with God for them. They want to see the word "God" as proof and they want it to be in the King James version. If you go down to verse 9 at the end it says: "...saith thy God".
Is this refering to Jesus? Or another part of the Godhead? Or is it inconclusive? Please give me help on this. If it is inconclusive I will not be using it.

Ps. I'm using a book called "Jesus is both God and Man" by stuart olyott. If anyone has any other books or advice it would be much appreciated! By the way his name is Sam if anyone is so inclined to say a prayer for him.

Thanks in advance!

Dieter Schneider · #2 (**permalink**) 09-24-2007, 02:05 PM

I like a booklet by Heinze, which can be read here

A close relation of mine is involved with the Watchtower Society. Please e-mail me if you have any particular questions.
Meanwhile you ought to familiarize yourself with Arianism.

toddpedlar · #3 (**permalink**) 09-24-2007, 03:42 PM

Have you gone to Hebrews 1 with him? The gymnastics they have had to go through with that chapter (in producing their heretical non-translation of the bible, the 'New World Blasphemation', as I like to call it) in order for it not to teach the divinity of Christ is appalling. (But I gather hitting them with the Greek is not something you're looking to do). If he's willing to use the King James, then his position is sunk.

javajedi · #4 (**permalink**) 09-24-2007, 09:45 PM

You are on the right track by dealing with key theology - like Jesus is God.
Other topics, like false prophecies, etc, can be a waste of time.

I am reminded of an old ('80s) contemporary Christian song by the group Daniel Amos, "Jesus is Jehovah to me".

John 8 "I AM" passage:

58 "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

The Jews understood very well Jesus' claim to be God.

John Gill · #5 (**permalink**) 09-25-2007, 01:31 PM

Thank you for those suggestions. The booklet looks very helpful and I'll have to add those passages to my list of verses.

reformedman · #6 (**permalink**) 09-25-2007, 01:54 PM

I'd like to say that related to your original post; it is precarious to try to say that Jesus did this while the Father did that, and the Spirit's job was the other. Sometimes in defense of our faith with jw's, people will accidentally go too far by answering heretically in that there are divisions in God or departments.

Just a side note with verbalizing while speaking with them; I have found that it is better to refer to God as Jehovah--therefore, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is Jehovah. Not that [the Father is Jehovah and Jesus is God], although it is fact, but it implies by language that one is something that the other is not.

jaybird0827 · #7 (**permalink**) 09-25-2007, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reformedman

I'd like to say that related to your original post; it is precarious to try to say that Jesus did this while the Father did that, and the Spirit's job was the other. Sometimes in defense of our faith with jw's, people will accidentally go too far by answering heretically in that there are divisions in God or departments.

Just a side note with verbalizing while speaking with them; I have found that it is better to refer to God as Jehovah--therefore, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is Jehovah. Not that [the Father is Jehovah and Jesus is God], although it is fact, but it implies by language that one is something that the other is not.

I sat under at least one pastor who expressed concern about what he called "tri-theism" in the modern church. Economic relationships in the Trinity tend to get muddled with "There are three Persons ... the same in substance, equal in power and glory." Have you ever noticed how often God is addressed as "You and your son" in public prayers? Small wonder people like JW's charge us with polytheism.

jaybird0827 · #8 (**permalink**) 09-25-2007, 04:43 PM

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." -- Isaiah 42:8

compared to

"I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was." -- John 17:4-5

If Jesus were not Jehovah, what business would he have had praying such a prayer. Note also that this is a petition that would be granted. The prayer was in accordance with God's will, as were all of Christ's earthly prayers.

I used this in confronting a doorbelling JW pair. One of them said, "I'm going to have to think about that." Next time they were in our neighborhood they skipped our house. So they continued in their error; but the hope is that your friend will be more open to that.

John Gill · #9 (**permalink**) 09-26-2007, 06:11 PM

Good points.
And I love the way you connected the 2 passages in Isaiah, that is profound!
And I admit to not comprehending the Three in One.
It would seem, (and correct me if I'm in error)
that the One has

different wills(the will of the father, the will of the son)
different separate functions(mainly thinking of salvation)
and can be doing different things within Himself and apart from Himself(Christ being on earth and praying to the Father)

Trully mind boggling.
I do tend to think of God as 3 seperate persons.

I need to do some more reading on the trinity.
I'm sure I have some of Edwards' writings here somewhere...