Why has God been more gracious to some countries..

caddy · #1 (**permalink**) 12-08-2006, 06:54 PM

as opposed to otheres ?

How do you explain the geographical distribution of those God intends to save? Why does he choose not to save huge parts of the world (particularly Asia), and why was he completely unknown to millions of Americans until they were colonized (and exterminated) by the Europeans? I'm curious what your theory is on that.

I felt I need to make this its own thread.

Semper Fidelis · #2 (**permalink**) 12-08-2006, 06:58 PM

Deuteronomy 29:29 comes to mind...

caddy · #3 (**permalink**) 12-08-2006, 07:07 PM

I understand this Rich, but help me more with the development of this scripture and idea. Why do certain nations seem to enjoy more of God's concentrated blessings both in numbers and in prosperity. Again, I have my ideas, but just looking to hear some differing thoughts on this from others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

Deuteronomy 29:29 comes to mind...

ADKing · #4 (**permalink**) 12-08-2006, 07:11 PM

I understand the question. It is one that keeps us very humble is it not?! Ultimately I do not think we can answer this question anymore that we can give a basis for personal/individual election other than it is the mere good pleasure of his will! It is nothing in Jacob, nothing in the elect nor in nations that can give us a satisfactory answer.

I remember visiting sites in Ireland that were the remnants of societies and cultures that perished long before Jesus was even born. It is such a powerful sensation to realise that there were people who were born, lived and died without ever having heard the gospel. It makes me so much more thankful that I have heard it.

caddy · #5 (**permalink**) 12-08-2006, 07:43 PM

Amen Brother

Thank you for that...!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADKing

I understand the question. It is one that keeps us very humble is it not?! Ultimately I do not think we can answer this question anymore that we can give a basis for personal/individual election other than it is the mere good pleasure of his will! It is nothing in Jacob, nothing in the elect nor in nations that can give us a satisfactory answer.

I remember visiting sites in Ireland that were the remnants of societies and cultures that perished long before Jesus was even born. It is such a powerful sensation to realise that there were people who were born, lived and died without ever having heard the gospel. It makes me so much more thankful that I have heard it.

Semper Fidelis · #6 (**permalink**) 12-08-2006, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caddy

I understand this Rich, but help me more with the development of this scripture and idea. Why do certain nations seem to enjoy more of God's concentrated blessings both in numbers and in prosperity. Again, I have my ideas, but just looking to hear some differing thoughts on this from others.

I wasn't trying to be snide in my remark but any answer to the question would be speculation. The answer couldn't be because he likes culture A over culture B because culture A is more commendable.

Ultimately the decision of the move of the Gospel could never be due to some good foreseen in the recipients and I think any "guess" about why the Gospel advances in certain areas would be a bit impious.

gwine · #7 (**permalink**) 12-08-2006, 10:59 PM

Maybe what we see as God giving more grace to a nation is not really so. All the sins of all the people deserve eternal separation from God were it not for Christ, and perhaps in His thinking the grace He dispenses is so tiny compared to what the elect will someday receive that it is only our human scale that sees it so spread out. After all, there really is little difference between Hitler and Mother Teresa, so maybe there is little difference between God's favor towards America and His favor towards China in His eyes.

Just my musing at the keyboard.

Quote:

Deu 7:7 It was not because you were more in number than any other people that the LORD set his love on you and chose you, for you were the fewest of all peoples,
Deu 7:8 but it is because the LORD loves you and is keeping the oath that he swore to your fathers, that the LORD has brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Quote:

Rom 9:13 As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means!
Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

caddy · #8 (**permalink**) 12-08-2006, 11:33 PM

Thanks Rich

I did not for a second take your remark as being snide. I was just looking for a little more is all...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SemperFideles

I wasn't trying to be snide in my remark but any answer to the question would be speculation. The answer couldn't be because he likes culture A over culture B because culture A is more commendable.

Ultimately the decision of the move of the Gospel could never be due to some good foreseen in the recipients and I think any "guess" about why the Gospel advances in certain areas would be a bit impious.

caddy · #9 (**permalink**) 12-08-2006, 11:55 PM

Yes, and I have listened to messages of countries such as India, where some preachers, teachers have made mention where people venerate, worship animals...that God has in essence passed some sort of national judgement on them for worshipping a creature as opposed to worshipping the living God. While all this sounds "sound,"--for lack of a better term--is there any truth in this? What of countries like Asia ( China ) where so many of the people live under oppression. Is that God's judgement due to a Godless government, culture, ideology that has continuted to linger in those lands? I realize that there is a truer / deeper following due to that persecution, just as there was in the times shortly after Christ up until Constantine. God always gives grace in times of deep persecution and the church is strengthened during anytime of deep persecution. Unbelievers--I would imagine--come out of the church voluntarily--tares that they are--to save themselves. Anyhow, these are the types of things I have heard over the years. I just don't know what the answer is, but I am appreciating the comments so far.

Appreciate you all...

Quote:

Originally Posted by gwine

Maybe what we see as God giving more grace to a nation is not really so. All the sins of all the people deserve eternal separation from God were it not for Christ, and perhaps in His thinking the grace He dispenses is so tiny compared to what the elect will someday receive that it is only our human scale that sees it so spread out. After all, there really is little difference between Hitler and Mother Teresa, so maybe there is little difference between God's favor towards America and His favor towards China in His eyes.

Just my musing at the keyboard.

turmeric · #10 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 12:06 AM

Here's my 2 cents worth; let's say no one in that culture in Ireland was elect, they all died without Christ and are in hell. Now, in the United States the Gospel is preached fairly often, even atheists have a nodding acquaintance with it. So people die here who are not elect and go to hell. Who will receive the more stripes, the poor guy from a pre-Christian culture, or the post-Christian US know-it-all?
So it could be we're looking at this grace thing backward?

caddy · #11 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 12:08 AM

Excellent point!

Quote:

Originally Posted by turmeric

Here's my 2 cents worth; let's say no one in that culture in Ireland was elect, they all died without Christ and are in hell. Now, in the United States the Gospel is preached fairly often, even atheists have a nodding acquaintance with it. So people die here who are not elect and go to hell. Who will receive the more stripes, the poor guy from a pre-Christian culture, or the post-Christian US know-it-all?
So it could be we're looking at this grace thing backward?

JDWiseman · #12 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 03:28 PM

I would say that the question that you are asking, though somewhat different, is essentially the same as "Why would God choose one individual, and not another."

And ultimately, your question and that question have the exact same answer.

Augusta · #13 (**permalink**) 12-09-2006, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turmeric

Here's my 2 cents worth; let's say no one in that culture in Ireland was elect, they all died without Christ and are in hell. Now, in the United States the Gospel is preached fairly often, even atheists have a nodding acquaintance with it. So people die here who are not elect and go to hell. Who will receive the more stripes, the poor guy from a pre-Christian culture, or the post-Christian US know-it-all?
So it could be we're looking at this grace thing backward?

Exactly Meg, the verses I thought of were Matthew 11:20-24 where Jesus curses the impenitent cities where great works were done yet they did not repent.

Woe to the Impenitent Cities

20 Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent:
21 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
22 But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you.
23 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be[d] brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
24 But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you.”