Way of the Master

larryjf · #1 (**permalink**) 12-28-2006, 09:49 AM

I am going to be starting a small group on Evangelism.

Any experience or thoughts on The Way of the Master? It has endorsements from folks like James Kennedy so i can't see it being too far out in left field.

Blueridge Believer · #2 (**permalink**) 12-28-2006, 10:17 AM

Phil Johnson has a link and a statement on Living waters/ Way of the Master
under his helpful theology listings.
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/bookmark/helpful.htm

LadyFlynt · #3 (**permalink**) 12-28-2006, 10:25 AM

Other than the sinners prayer type bit, they do have some good advice.

toddpedlar · #4 (**permalink**) 12-28-2006, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larryjf

I am going to be starting a small group on Evangelism.

Any experience or thoughts on The Way of the Master? It has endorsements from folks like James Kennedy so i can't see it being too far out in left field.

If the materials you'd use in presenting this method are those that are on their website (www.wayofthemaster.com) then you'll have a lot of "correcting" to do. That is, Kirk Cameron in every clip I've seen presents the Gospel as "God loves you and doesn't want you to go to Hell", etc. Granted, this method from what I know does involve repentance as part of the message...and I like *some* of the things that Cameron says are laudable, but every time he comes to the close of his presentation, he launches into completely Arminian theology of atonement. I also haven't poked around enough to know how much futurist eschatology plays a role, but I know that's the position that Kirk Cameron has publicly embraced...

The elements that are good in this are common to Evangelism Explosion, for instance. I don't know much about EE, but maybe that's better.

I know it's helpful to have prepared materials for teaching evangelism... it at least gives people a start for their own understanding of a method - but stuff like this is completely divorced from the teaching ministry of the church, and that's a concern for me. I'm c

Pilgrim · #5 (**permalink**) 12-28-2006, 11:21 AM

Ray Comfort's message for decades has been confronting people with the demands of the law and combatting easy believism. For years he was mainly known for a sermon and book entitled "Hell's Best Kept Secret." Comfort and Cameron are no doubt futurists since I think the Left Behind II movie is where they first worked together, after which Cameron partnered with Comfort's ministry.

One thing their activities are doing is exposing Charismatics and other evangelicals to more solid theology through their program on TBN (where John MacArthur once appeared!) and other outlets. I know a guy from a Word of Faith/Charismatic background who got into Way of the Master who is now getting into Calvinistic writers and is interested in Spurgeon, Jonathan Edwards, etc.

Herald · #6 (**permalink**) 12-28-2006, 11:29 AM

Anytime the gospel is systematized into a neat little package there is going to be compromises. The question is whether any compromises are acceptable. First, there is no question that God is greater than our failures. If we misrepresent or forget a salient truth of the gospel when reaching out to an unbeliever, the Holy Spirit's work will not be diminished. If God is working in an individual in order to bring them to faith in Christ, God's work will be done. Acknowledging this fact recognizes that God is completely sovereign. But this is not an excuse for compromising (imho). If a systematized gospel program is deficient in theology then it must changed or abandoned. This does not mean that the Way of the Master or Evangelism Explosion are devoid of merit. They aren't. But if I were to use their programs I would have to determine whether some "tweaking" was needed. For instance, any program that incorporates a standard sinners prayer would be changed if I had anything to say about it. Also, I couldn't tell a person that God loved them. How do I know that? I could tell them about the love of God but not that God loved them in their sinful condition.

P.S. Now...after all that I just said, my church has used BOTH the Way of the Master and Evangelism Explosion. E.E. is dormant right now because of lack of interest. W.O.T.M. was more of a DVD series than an actual program.

LadyFlynt · #7 (**permalink**) 12-28-2006, 12:18 PM

E.E. gags me...dealt with that for several years in a dispy church. Granted, Comfort and Cameron are also dispy, but I like their approach with the law.

Ivan · #8 (**permalink**) 12-28-2006, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyFlynt

E.E. gags me...

Just curious, why?

Herald · #9 (**permalink**) 12-28-2006, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LadyFlynt

E.E. gags me...dealt with that for several years in a dispy church. Granted, Comfort and Cameron are also dispy, but I like their approach with the law.

E.E. is not dispy. Dr. Kennedy is Presbyterian and certainly not a dispensationalist.

Scott Bushey · #10 (**permalink**) 12-28-2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaptistInCrisis

E.E. is not dispy. Dr. Kennedy is Presbyterian and certainly not a dispensationalist.

I agree; it is Arminian.

Sign here:____________________

C. Matthew McMahon · #11 (**permalink**) 12-28-2006, 08:29 PM

EE is VERY Arminian. This is one of Kennedy's great ecumenical compromises with the Gospel. Yes, he is PCA, but what does that mean nowadays? There are lots of PCA churches here, including Kennedy's. He has, mind you, ARMINIAN elders in his church. There are over 20 PCA churches here within a 100 miles radius, and they all have followed suit in South Florida as particularly BAD churches if you like Reformed Doctrine, or even mildly hold to the Regulative Principle. We went to a PCA church headed up by Rick Phillips (President of the Alliance for Confessing Evangelicals) for an entire year, to our disgust, and watched his compromise and failure to hold to the Regulative Principle every Sunday. Kennedy has lead the way in dealing with slipping on the slippery slope of "how many people do we need to keep in church to pay for this grand building we have?" Its everywhere here.

As for Way of the Master, Cameron and Comfort are your elevated brand of Arminian - they continually preach that "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for you life," but add in teaching people about the law which condemns them. So they have a bit of the condemning part right, but can't seem to get the Gospel right!

Herald · #12 (**permalink**) 12-28-2006, 09:20 PM

Scott/Matt - I was choosing my words carefully when I said that E.E. was not dispensational. As far as the Arminian charge...you're both spot on. Please read my post on systematizing the gospel message. Good intentions aside this is what both Comfort and Kennedy have done. This does not mean that their process is devoid of merit (as I have said previously). It does mean that their process needs changing.

I had a conversation with my pastor and fellow elder about this topic this afternoon. I asked him a question, "What role should the rank-in-file believer play in evangelism?" I attempted to answer my own question by saying, "I am fine if a person does not feel adequate to the task of sharing the gospel message with a person and they invite them to church to hear the preaching of the word of God." More and more I find myself leaning in this direction. Why? Because the average believer doesn't know how to share the gospel message. This is why processes like W.O.T.M. and E.E. have sprouted up. They are attempting to train the lay church in being able to evangelize. The problem is that we send out workers who are flawed in their theology. Can the Holy Spirit still work in spite of these flaws? Amen! Yes, He can (and does)! But that is no excuse for continuing to train people in the wrong way.

toddpedlar · #13 (**permalink**) 12-28-2006, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. Matthew McMahon

As for Way of the Master, Cameron and Comfort are your elevated brand of Arminian - they continually preach that "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for you life," but add in teaching people about the law which condemns them. So they have a bit of the condemning part right, but can't seem to get the Gospel right!

Which is very funny because on their website they have a commentary about how you can't say "God has a wonderful plan for your life" to people indiscriminately....

T

AV1611 · #14 (**permalink**) 12-29-2006, 09:48 AM

I have had first hand experience of this and can say that it is dreadful evangelism...it typifies the "God loves you and Christ died for you" evangelism of the Arminians.

3John2 · #15 (**permalink**) 12-29-2006, 12:48 PM

My church has used the videos from Way of the Master for evangelism. We are a Reformed church through & through. Pastor says it presents the gospel the way the Puritans used to. 90% law 10% grace. In other words let people know they DON'T measure up to the law & then show teach them about grace & about what HE has done for us. No altar call or nothing like that. I only saw one of the video's as I work when they show them. Anyways can't comment other than that.