Revival in China?

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Andrew Myers
Husband of Jessica, Father of Jackson, Katie and Samuel
Member, Presbyterian Reformed Church of Northern Virginia
Warrenton, VA USA
Editor, The Matthew Poole Project

"Let your Morning Thoughts, and your last Evening Thoughts, be what shall become of you to all Eternity." -- Matthew Poole

Does anyone know what kind of theology these "house" churches embrace?

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The Piper will lead us to reason...

Rick Larson
Hope Christian and Missionary Alliance Church
Apple Valley, MN.

Thanks for the article, Andrew. I was just talking to a friend yesterday about the status of communism in China and what role the church would play in the fall of communism. Great timing!

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Seth Stark
Member, Communion Presbyterian Church (ARP), Irvine, CA
Biola University, Graduate Student, M.A. - Science and Religion
Seth's Blog

Lots are rather charismatic although don't let the associations with that word put you off instantly. They are in particular not like many modern charismatic churches in the west because they are 1) pushed to actually think about what they believe due to persecution 2) due to a 'do or die' attitude (can't think of a better way of explaining it) they are certainly not dripped with the apathy and many other practicle problems the modern church happens. There are also some reasonably Calvinist churches (They at least hold similar views to the DoG).

Due to 1000% growth in some areas over a number of decades there is also a problem of having people with much Biblical knowledge. Many pastors are trained more by beatings, jail and harsh punishment that actual Biblical knowledge - Bibles are just hard to find.

You could almost understand the 'charismatic' movement there (charismatic mostly only in the way they think of gifts) because they have no other way of revelation when Bibles and Bible knowledge is so rare. From the Chinese I know they at least use it more Biblicaly than all charismatics I know (ie. they actually test things, pray in groups etc...)

I also know that many Christians over there pray for the Communist party to remain because the persecution keeps the Church strong. The last thing we want is an apathetic church of a 100 million with no sound knowledge of scripture.

I am not the biggest authority on the matter though.

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Fraser,
Trinity Reformed Baptist Church
Hamilton, New Zealand.

I was hoping you would post fraser. (r u on messeger anymore?)

Blade

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Nathan Olaf Brandal
First Baptist Church of Kirkland

"Man is nothing: he hath a free will to go to hell, but none to go to heaven, till God worketh in him to will and to do his good pleasure"
GEORGE WHITEFIELD TO JOHN WESLEY

My Blog

Though I agree with a lot of what you say, Fraser, I believe that the "charismatic movement" there owes more to the influx of unsound Western missionaries and their teachings since the 1980s than anything else.

Other than the small minority of house churches built on reformed teachings, I would say that the most solid house churches are those with roots going back at least several decades and connected with the old preachers who received the most persecution in previous years. Though the printed Bible was especially scarce in those days, many of these men had it well written on their hearts, and they had a hold of the true gospel.

All of the tongue-speaking and other such teachings came in with the charismatic Westerners in the 1980s, and unfortunately these are the teachings which are spreading most rapidly. A great many of them are also Arminian in the most heretical sense, speaking almost nothing about true repentance and surrender to Christ, but emphasising instead the benefits and fulfillment people can get from believing in God, always trying to persuade people by any means to pray the "decisional prayer" so they will be guaranteed salvation. It can be easy indeed to get people to "accept" this message, since it avoids the cross and has no cost.

False and heretical teachings spread rapidly indeed among those who have never come to saving faith in the true gospel in the first place.

You are right that there is a tremendous need for sound, godly and Biblically knowledgable pastors in this land.

I know that the Lord is indeed doing great works in this land, but we must pray fervently for purification and reformation.

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Jie-Huli
Metropolitan Tabernacle Church
London, England

Hudson Taylor would be grateful.

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R. Martin Snyder
1689er
Harmony Baptist Church (Member)
PuritanCovenanter MSN Blog
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"Our object should not be to have scripture on our side but to be on the side of scripture; and however dear any sentiment may have become by being long entertained, so soon as it is seen to be contrary to the Bible, we must be prepared to abandon it without hesitation."
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Jie-Huli, thank you for sharing that. You obviously are a lot more familiar than me with the subject. My knowledge is mostly second hand from Chinese themselves.

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Fraser,
Trinity Reformed Baptist Church
Hamilton, New Zealand.

There is a man whose work is still bearing good fruit across the land, even after all the years and all that has happened within those years.

"But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty." Matthew 13:23

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Jie-Huli
Metropolitan Tabernacle Church
London, England

I have heard a bit about Hudson Taylor but I have never delved too deep (you know what it is like when everyone talks of them and you don't want to go to basics). Was he Reformed?

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Fraser,
Trinity Reformed Baptist Church
Hamilton, New Zealand.

Yes, he was reformed and Calvinistic, just as other great missionaries of those times such as Adoniram Judson and William Carey.

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Jie-Huli
Metropolitan Tabernacle Church
London, England

I assumed he wasn't as I only heard of him at first among charismatic friends :P Nice to know these things.

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Fraser,
Trinity Reformed Baptist Church
Hamilton, New Zealand.

Yes, he is one of those men of God whom all kinds of people praise flippantly without really knowing or caring to learn what he really stood for . . . they would often rather just remake his memory in their own image.

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Jie-Huli
Metropolitan Tabernacle Church
London, England

Americans roughed up in China, Cops reportedly mistreat U.S. Christians during raid on house church, August 9, 2005

Arrest First, Ask Questions Later, August 24, 2005

[Edited on 9-7-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]

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Andrew Myers
Husband of Jessica, Father of Jackson, Katie and Samuel
Member, Presbyterian Reformed Church of Northern Virginia
Warrenton, VA USA
Editor, The Matthew Poole Project

"Let your Morning Thoughts, and your last Evening Thoughts, be what shall become of you to all Eternity." -- Matthew Poole

Thats like what percentage of China?

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Rev. Andrew J. Barnes
Husband of Dena
Pastor of Tchula Presbyterian Church

I haven't posted anything in a while (seminary...need I say more) but I saw this and I just wanted to comment that, to my knowledge, that Mrs. Ren Daoyun, 60, and Miss Gu Junqing, 38, are still in prison. Please be in prayer for those imprisoned as though you were in chains with them. And pray for the church in china - Christ is faithful, and He is building His church there and caring for His people faithfully, just as He has promised - still, they need your prayers more than ever.


And consider going over to help - and for those of you in seminary to serve the most precious thing on this earth - Christ's precious flock, for whom He died - study hard.

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If the turning of a straw would save my soul I would not move it, oh! no, I would not be a traitor to Jesus, I would not take His work out of His hands. - Martin Luther

Daniel L Cohee
Under the care of Evangel Presbytery,
Member, Decatur Presbyterian Church (PCA)
MDiv student, WTS Dallas

Hudson Taylor calvinistic ????? He was a great missionary and inspiration, but as far i know he was not reformed but a methodist background.

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* Ralph Wilms (7-10-1974)
* Church : Christengemeente Roermond (The Netherlands)
* Credobaptist who hold towards Covenant Theology
* Husband of Reena & father of Naomie and Gideon
* 1729 Goat Yard Declaration of Faith
* 1646 & 1689 Baptist Confession of faith
* 1595 The Lambeth Articles
* 1618-1619 The Canons of Dordt

He was technically non-denominational with his mission organization. But he was Calvinistic in his doctrine.

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Patrick
OPC
MDiv, RTS Jackson.

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.

100 million? Really? That's almost 10% of the population.

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Patrick
OPC
MDiv, RTS Jackson.

"He does well, that discourses of Christ; but he does infinitely better, that by experimental knowledge, feeds and lives on Christ." Thomas Brooks.

It is impossible to say for certain how many members the house churches have . . . 100 million is on the high end of the estimates. Unfortunately, the number of Biblical Christians is probably much lower than that. These high estimates almost always include Catholic churches, and a lot of other churches that I would say do not possess the true Gospel. Of course there are also a good many churches very faithful to the Lord in the face of great resistance. Keep China in your prayers.

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Jie-Huli
Metropolitan Tabernacle Church
London, England

I met with Bob Fu of ChinaAid a few days ago and found out that the two final prisoners (Ren Daoyun and Gu Junqing) from my group have been released! Ren Daoyun however, had been quite badly tortured. Thank you for your prayers for them. I do so appreciate it!

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If the turning of a straw would save my soul I would not move it, oh! no, I would not be a traitor to Jesus, I would not take His work out of His hands. - Martin Luther

Daniel L Cohee
Under the care of Evangel Presbytery,
Member, Decatur Presbyterian Church (PCA)
MDiv student, WTS Dallas

Can anyone tell us how the Church in China is doing these days, in a general way, or with respect to particular needs/prayer requests?

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Andrew Myers
Husband of Jessica, Father of Jackson, Katie and Samuel
Member, Presbyterian Reformed Church of Northern Virginia
Warrenton, VA USA
Editor, The Matthew Poole Project

"Let your Morning Thoughts, and your last Evening Thoughts, be what shall become of you to all Eternity." -- Matthew Poole

Well, I just came back from China in July and I can say that I was majorly impressed by the size of the Chinese church. Although I was in Hong Kong for most of my trip there (HK is not Communist), I did take a week long trip to Shanghai and had the privilege of meeting some undercover missionaries and people involved in smuggling Bibles into the underground church. So from my experience, I would agree with most of the posts in this thread. It seemed to me that most Chinese evangelicals would be continuationalist, however, as said before they are very responsible in the way that they use the gifts. So one thing to pray for is that they wouldn't be influenced by the 'less responsible' side of the Charismatic movement and that they would be firmly rooted in the truth of God's word.

Another thing to pray for is that pastors would be better equipped for teaching their congregations. One thing that some missionaries in China told our group (our ages ranged from 15-30 years old) was that most of us had more knowledge of scripture that 90% of the pastors in China. In fact, the majority of this particular missionary's duties was to travel to house churches in the mainland and train up pastors. So there is a strong need for good leadership in the Church.

God is definitely raising up His church in China in this century and I think that we should all be praying for this nation.

[Edited on 9-4-2006 by Shaffer]

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Brady Shaffer
Currently looking for a church
St. Paul, MN

"Whom have I in heaven but You? And there is none upon earth that I desire besides You."
Psalm 73:25

I certainly agree with the statement above.

Last time I investigated or read anything about this and listened to the arguements here was a generally break down in numbers.

At the time there was roughly 20 million 'official' Christians who go to Free Self Churches.

The House Church movements claimed about 100 to 120 million followers but some foreigners I was talking to at the time of reliable standing said this was generally assumed to be lower, around 60 to 80 million or slightly less.

It is always hard because people could go to both the Free Self Churches and the house churches but not always.

Catholics were, as far as I understood from my conversation, not included in this as the Chinese words are different. From my understanding of Chinese what is often translated 'Christian' is actually 'jidujiao' which is closer to protestantism. I have forgotten the word for Catholicism. I asked at the time if the figures included Catholicism and they said no.