Are Reformed Baptist churches doing well at planting churches? After gathering data from 73 respondents who pastor churches that adhere to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, church-planter Matt Troupe concludes that Reformed Baptists “are not aggressively planting new congregations and that organizational structures are not functioning effectively to promote church planting.” In light of his findings, Matt suggests four areas of policy change that would promote further reformation among our churches in this vital area of kingdom extension.

Reformed Baptists Not Doing a Good Job of Planting Churches

Your servant

__________________
Bob Gonzales Jr., Dean
Reformed Baptist Seminary
Easley, South Carolina

"Persons need not and ought not to set any bounds to their spiritual and gracious appetites." Jonathan Edwards

I'm curious why you would apply a collective assessment to what is essentially an independent responsibility according to Baptist ecclesiology. It seems you ought to wonder why each individual, autonomous Church is not planting other Churches.

__________________
Rich
PCA, Northern VA
Student, New Geneva Theological Seminary

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Do you think that many times RB churches put more energy into homeschooling, which leads to an inward focus rather than an outward focus. If the family has any backround with fundamentalism they might also let seperation turn into isolation.
I like anything that speaks about reaching out to the lost.Many of the RB churches are still small. Many of the members are not so much neglecting evangelism as they are seeking to work on their own sanctification.
If you come from a church backround with a lack of confessional teaching it takes time {and alot of reading and prayer} to reform from some of these wrong ideas to a more biblical view of life. Not all of this is bad,in fact it is needful. The key it seems is to be reminded that we need to keep an outward focus as well;
I have enjoyed and been challenged by these messages in particular this past year;
SermonAudio.com - The Church's Need of an Outward Focus

106 The Church's Need of an Outward Focus
Michael Crawford • 60 min.
Immanuel Baptist Church Play! |

SUN 09/25/2005

91 Christian Relevence
Michael Crawford • 62 min.
Free Grace Church Reformed 100+ Play! |

SUN 07/30/2006
Special Meeting

The Believers Call to Stand in the Gap
Michael Crawford • 46 min.
Immanuel Baptist Church 100+ Play! |

These sermons are well worth the time to listen too,especially for us who enjoy reading and studying. They go hand in hand with the concern of the OP.
Let me know what you think. I believe Pastor Crawford is right on the pulse of the issue overall.

__________________
Anthony D'Arienzo
Sunday School Teacher
Hope Reformed Baptist Church:
Medford, N.Y.

Hi Rich. Good question. Most of the 1689 churches I associate with believe as firmly in the interdependence of local churches as they do the independence of local churches. Accordingly, we reject the notion that any one local church can successfully carry out the work of the Great Commission in isolation from other true churches of Christ. We believe, rather, that the work of church planting and missions is not a solo but a cooperative effort.

I make the following comments based on experience: Because of the focus on the autonomy of the local church (which as a presbyterian I could affirm rightly defined) in foreign missions they see it as the responsibility as the native church plant to continue the work not the responsibility of the sending group or church. Here in Québec Raymond Perron has devoted his time to working planting CONFESSIONAL Reformed baptist churches in Québec. Now many baptists realize the hardship in that and make a clear decision that its better pragmatically to work with broader groups (SBC, other baptist associations, ect...) and they can still hold to their reformed solteriology and receive more financial support, prayer support, by working in mixed yet orthodox denominations. There are many baptists in québec who love ARBCA but why work with that when the SBC will support calvinists and the general baptist work has a longer history in the province?

__________________
J. P. Grigoletti II * Lay-man * Église Réformée du Québec
Québec, Québec Canada * Member: Église Reformée St. Marc
http://Grigoletti.blogspot.com - blog
<<There are three things necessary for thee to know, that thou, enjoying this comfort, mayest live and die happily: the first, how great your sins and miseries are; the second, how thou may be delivered from all thy sins and miseries; the third, how thou shall express thy gratitude to God for such deliverance.>>

OK, thanks.

I assume by "Reformed Baptist" you're restricting your consideration to those Churches that subscribe to the 1689 LBCF and would not include Sovereign Grace Ministries in your critique.

Hello Rich,
Dr.Bob will no doubt answer you but if I were asked this question I would say that the shared confession of faith leads to a view that although we are seperate autonomous churches, those who belong to ARBCA look to voluntarily co-operate with other like minded 1689 assemblies.
As I noted in my post many RB churches are small so just financially it becomes a consideration to train and equip missonaries and offer financial aid. The ARBCA website might speak to this.
Also it is true we each identify with our particular denomination, yet I also am supportive of any church who seeks to present the claims of Christ faithfully.
While we seek to fine tune our beliefs here on the PB and we present our differences if we were together in a public setting speaking to unsaved persons we would work together to address that persons need of salvation and the focus would be on that goal, not on any of the differences at least initially

I know that ARBCA has a dedicated church planting initiative among it's member churches. If I recall, last year they hosted a church planting round table at Grace Baptist Church in Carlisle, PA. One of the reasons there is a mutual interest with ARBCA (between my church and ARBCA) is that we are located equidistant from Washington and Baltimore; not quite in the city limits of either but definitely within driving distance.

Part of our long term goal is to plant another RB church in the area. The assistance of like-minded churches will prove invaluable.

__________________
Bill Brown
Elder
Reformed Baptist
Maryland

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Yes. The research church-planter Matt Troupe collated and assessed was based on data solicited from pastors of 1689 churches.

ARBCA is committed to planting churches and has many ongoing projects.

There seems to be a presupposition to this discussion that RB churches ought to plant churches rather than reform the ones that already exist. I am not sure I agree.

__________________


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J. P.,

Thanks for your helpful input. I see no reason why Reformed Baptists from different denominational associations (e.g., ARBCA and SBC) cannot work together cooperatively especially when there is sufficient agreement doctrinally and philosophically. Perhaps Rich could help us here, but I suspect that O.P.C. churches might, in some instances, work cooperatively with P.C.A. churches in certain kingdom endeavors.

Ken
As time permits I would like to hear a little bit more of your thoughts here, or perhaps in a new thread. If a person re-locates and does not find their denomination in the area, to what extent and what guidelines should be observed to help an assembly reform, without causing strife or division?

Ken,

I don't detect that presupposition in this discussion. It's certainly not a presupposition of Matt Troupe's research paper. The RB churches interviewed by Matt have been and continue to be committed to the reformation of churches that already exist. Some of us share the conviction, however, that church planting happens to be one of the areas of RB ecclesiology that needs further reformation. Of course, not all RB churches are at a stage of development to make the same level of contribution in this area. But many are at that stage. Their doctrine and worship are in order. But they're not growing. Nor are they multiplying new congregations. Matt's research and analysis suggest the need for reformation in the following areas:

(1) RB churches need to see the multiplication of new congregations as a core part of the purpose of their churches and associations.
(2) RB churches need to plant churches that are focused on making new disciples.
(3) RB churches need to target large cities in their church planting efforts.
(4) RB churches need to improve their cooperation in order to multiply worshipping congregations.

Hope this helps clarify.

Bob,

The challenges with inter-denomnational church planting stems partly from doctrinal differences. Many SBC-Founders churches are still very much dispensational. Some still hold on to fundamentalism (to varying degrees). Personally, I would have a difficult time sanctioning the planting of a church in cooperation with those whom I have deep doctrinal disagreements.

This does slightly touch on an issue I've been interested in lately: Does anybody know of any historical surveys or research into the history of "church planting"? I'll admit my ignorance on the subject, but I get the feeling that the "mission to church plant" has a stronger emphasis in the church today than it has in the past - though, as I said, I have little data to base that off of. Any help on this question? Survey's of church planting in general and/or in America?

__________________
Jacob
Sovereign Grace Ministries
Covenant Fellowship Church
WTS M.A.R. in Theology student
West Chester, PA

"Grace renews nature; glory perfects grace." ~ John Owen
"Grace tried is better than grace, and more than grace. It is glory in its infancy." ~ John Flavel
Blog - The Strasbourg Inn

As a P.S. to my last post...

What I mean by "cooperation" is an official church-sanctioned effort. Personally, I rejoice in seeing Calvinistic Baptist churches appear on the landscape. Of course, the OP was about Reformed Baptist Churches, not Calvinistic non-Reformed churches.

Jacob, you're question, while a good one, is best asked in a new thread. I'd be happy to start a new thread with your post if you like.

A second P.S.

I meant no offense to SBC-Founders churches. My point is that Founders churches come in all sizes and flavors. I do not want to close the door on cooperation with a Founders church that may be friendly or in keeping with the 1689 LBC.

Thanks for the direction Bill. I will do so - thanks!

Bill,

I agree there must be adequate agreement doctrinally and philosophically, as I noted in my post above. I am friends with a number of SBC pastors who fully subscribe to the 1689. So I'm not advocating cooperating with SBC churches across the board--only with those with whom we have sufficient agreement. Moreover, from my discussions with pastors in the SBC, the convention allows for a significant degree of local church autonomy. Accordingly, one may be a part of the SBC while retaining a distinctively Reformed identity and choosing to support SBC causes that reflect that identity.

-----Added 7/24/2009 at 11:28:38 EST-----

Jacob,

I'm not immediately aware of any research done in this area, and I agree with Bill that it probably deserves a thread of its own. I would venture, however, to suggest that the reason for a greater interest today in church planting may be that there are proportionately less established Reformed congregations in America today than in our country's Puritan era. If this is true, then young Reformed ministerial aspirants have the choice of assuming leadership roles in churches that are not Reformed or in the process of reformation. Or they need to think about planting Reformed churches from ground up. Neo-Calvinism seems to be focusing a lot on this latter approach, and I think more traditional Reformed churches are beginning to feel the need to do the same.

Well, we are trying to do our little part.

__________________
We shall not adjust our Bible to the age; but before we have done with it, by God's grace, we shall adjust the age to the Bible. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Lawrence Underwood, Jr.
Pastor - Providence Family Fellowship / Mobile, Alabama
1644/46 LBC
My Blog - Imprimis

Press on, brother!

Thanks for the post, brother.


Critical self-reflection is the first step in improvement.

We should never sit and be satisfied, but always be pressing forward and desiring more fruit.

__________________
Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

Is part of this due to a lack of qualified men to serve as pastors of these churches? I have heard both ways, some say that there are more men seeking the office than there are positions available, others say that it is the other way around.

__________________
John Lanier
Elder in Training
Reformed Baptist Church
Topeka, KS

I am skimming the paper now and will read it more deeply later, but....


Does it focus primarily on US church planting...it seems to. By church-planting we seem to be assuming US church-planting, and maybe this is part of the problem.



I have noticed that externally-focused churches, where the focus is on reaching far away also grows at home. I.e. if a church is missions minded for foreign fields, local growth is the natural result as well.


Local interests breed internally-focused churches.

-----Added 7/24/2009 at 01:41:52 EST-----

The writer speaks of the Great Commission, yet only focuses on discipling one nation. but as we reach out to the world, our backyards will also become healthier. Zeal for things abroad contributes to zeal for things near.

Perg,

I agree with the need to cultivate and maintain a global mindset. Nevertheless, as Troupe's research paper seems to indicate, Reformed Baptists have tended to focus on either reforming existing churches or supporting foreign missionaries. Whatever energies have been expended on planting churches here in the US have been largely confined to finding groups of believers who want a Reformed Baptist church and sending a man to pastor that core group and attempt to build a church. There has been less focus on ground-zero church planting in large metropolitan areas where there is no or little Reformed witness existing. The concern of some of us is that there can be more energy and financial resource expended trying to proselytize believers to the Reformed faith and less energy expended trying to win the unconverted to Christ--at least here in America.

When you write, "As we reach out to the world, our backyards will also become healthier," I'm inclined to agree in part. However, I've sometimes met many Christians and been in churches that seem to have quite a zeal for what's going on overseas but seemingly little zeal for the lost at home. I confess that I've been guilty of this at times. So I think it can also work the other way around--zeal for the lost in my backyard can foster and make more genuine my zeal for the lost in other parts of the world. Ideally, and I'm sure you'd agree, we should be zealous for both.

Thanks for your input and for taking time to read Matt's paper.

Speaking as a student at a massive secular research university in a large metropolitan area, I believe that a new Reformed Baptist congregation in the right hands on (even meeting in a small lecture hall at one of our old, liberal theological colleges) or a stone's throw from campus would do very well, very quickly. So many students here are hungry for robust Biblical preaching.

__________________
Nathan Tyler
Reformed Baptist
University of Toronto (Student: Hons. B.A. in Philosophy)
Ontario, Canada

1689'er

http://nathantyler.wordpress.com

Hopefully Matt's paper will result in positive effect.

__________________
Ben
Chaplain, US Army
Ft. Riley, KS
TE Ohio Valley Presbytery, PCA

That is a rather strong assertion and, depending upon if, and how, you might qualify it I may have to take exception to it Scripturally. Our church is not affiliated with ARBCA or any such body yet, under Christ we have been used of Him to
1. Train pastors
2. Plant a sister church
3. Do mission works on 5 continents
4. Give up one of our elders to train men in a foreign land

How then am I to understand your words?

__________________
Bob, elder, RBC Louisville. 1689 LBCF

"... Of such also, or of those who make a credible profession of being such, all those particular churches consist, which constitute our Lord's visible kingdom. ... Consequently, all the subjects of His government must have spiritual dispositions, , and yield spiritual obedience- obedience proceeding from an enlightened understanding, an awakened conscience, and a renewed heart."- Abraham Booth 1788

Yes, I agree on many points.

Are their foreign missions all that strong when compared to their home missions?

If the paper was replicated, but foreign missions was studied instead of home missions, how would the results differ in terms of number of missionaries per number of members of churches, percentage of income spent, number of fields engaged in, number of new churches planted overseas, and overall strategy to prioritize the darkest holes in the world?

-----Added 7/24/2009 at 04:54:51 EST-----

I bet you don't truly do mission work on 5 continents through the efforts of your local home church alone, in isolation from others. Almost all asian and overseas efforts are a cooperation between US sending churches and some local national church, or some group which processes visas for you. I am guessing that your local deacons are not processing visas on 5 continents.

Also, no missionary I know is SOLELY supported by one local home/sending church. In almost every case of Us missionaries being sent overseas, several churches come together to support a missionary and help the sending church send that one overseas.

-----Added 7/24/2009 at 04:58:05 EST-----

Yes, AMEN to that!

Do you know how this paper is being received generally?

Are people hearing about it, taking it to heart, and looking into its validity so that some "best practices" may be adopted and older practices/strategies/visions may be discarded? I.e., will this paper be enough to help push for change/improvement/further progress?

Hi Bob,

Good to hear from you. You may not remember me, but I visited and preached at your church many years ago when a ministerial student in the RBC of Grand Rapids.

I'm surprised that you're troubled at my words, which you highlighted above. Perhaps the best way I can explain the meaning of my words and understand your objection to my assertion is to ask you a series of questions, each related to the four ministry accomplishments of your local church.

(1) I know your church has trained pastors. I'm good friends with two of them, Stephen Gambill and James Williamson. And yet, if I'm not mistaken, your elders have used teaching materials and lectures produced by pastors of other RB churches. Isn't that true? Indeed, I would suspect that the men you trained were assigned reading in literature written by theologians outside your congregation, some of whom are not Reformed Baptists. If so, then you haven't trained pastors alone but in cooperation with other churches and the larger body of Christ.

(2) I'm aware of the fact that your church was instrumental in planting a sister church. I think you're referring to the work in Nashville. Did any other churches help fund this endeavor? Or did RBC of Louisville fund the effort alone? Did you receive any assistance from other churches, such as pulpit supply or even counsel? Did you ask other churches to join your congregation in praying for God's blessing on this church planting endeavor? Even if you did plant the work all by yourself, do you think your independent accomplishment should be the norm for every other local church? Especially smaller churches with less financial and human resources?

(3) I'm glad to hear that your church is doing mission work on 5 different continents. That's great! But what exactly does that mean? Are the missionaries doing this work all members of your church? Are all these mission works under the direct oversight of your church? Is your church completely financing all of these mission works? Are you the only local church praying for these specific works? Or are you cooperating with other churches in these mission works on 5 different continents? If you're doing it solo, I'm quite impressed. But once again, I'm not sure a purely independent posture--one that says, "We don't need or want help from anyone else"--is the biblical norm.

(4) Yes, you're giving up Pastor James Williamson to labor in Africa, providing national pastors with theological training. And Reformed Baptist Seminary, of which I'm the dean and which is a cooperative ministry of many RB churches is helping to provide your pastor with further theological training to prepare him for this task. Moreover, James is planning to pursue a doctorate through a paedo-baptist university. And, if I'm not mistaken, other Reformed Baptist churches I know will be supporting him with their finances and prayers.

So I fail to see why you take issue with what I said above. You may not be formally affiliated with an organized association of churches like ARBCA, but you are, whether you like it nor not, part of the larger visible body of Christ according to the Confession to which you subscribe and the NT to which you adhere. And I think I know your church well enough to characterize it as one which cooperates with other RB churches in fulfilling the Great Commission. RBC of Louisville is doing much good for the kingdom but not as a lone maverick.

Hope that clarifies the intention of my words.

Your servant,

I sure would hate to think we are the exception! I am so exceedingly thankful that God has blessed our church in this way!! Praying that this is just the beginning of many works to come! As for other RB churches (and for Presbys and other Christ-exalting churches as well), I pray that the Lord will keep them focused on the Gospel and will give them resources as they continue to fulfill the Great Commission through church planting.

-----Added 7/24/2009 at 06:13:49 EST-----

Amen to the OTHER Pastor Bob too Praise God for His grace towards His churches!

-----Added 7/24/2009 at 06:17:55 EST-----

And, as a side note, we've prayed for Matt Troupe in our prayer meetings. I am thankful that we have seasons of prayer devoted to the expansion of the Kingdom outside our own walls as well as inside!

__________________
MarieP
Reformed Baptist Church
Louisville, KY

"I am not worthy of the least of all the mercies and of all the truth which You have shown Your servant" (Gen. 32:10)

[quote=MarieP;660146]Marie,

I think Christ has accomplished much good through your church (RBC of Louisville), and this is no doubt partly due to the burden and vision He's imparted to your elders. I really admire their zeal and thank God for their example to other RB churches.

Dear Doctor Bob,
I will not be so tedious as to offer a full answer to each of your four questions but merely observe that if the implications of such questions were true of any pastor he would seem to be guilty of such amazing ignorance as to be unfit to care for the souls of Christ’s sheep.

It is in our rich Baptist tradition that we find such cooperation between churches that marks what the Lord will do, and indeed has done, through such poor and feeble congregations over the centuries. And this so often with such a spontaneity and ad hoc manner as to meet one urgent need after another.

And what can adequately be said of our debt to the published works of both Baptist and Paedobaptist scholars? I need not be reminded that the work of many hands over many centuries have blessedly come our way in this the twenty-first century.

But to put aside my humiliation and return to the point-- I am still trying to comprehend that bold statement of yours which seems to mark any particular church and its simple elders in a light of ignorance and presumption should they believe that Christ has authorized and equipped them to do all that He wills them to do relative to their commission. Again, you said that “we reject the notion that any one local church can successfully carry out the work of the Great Commission in isolation from other true churches of Christ”. May I put the question to you – Are there any fifteen or fifteen-hundred churches collectively and cooperatively that can carry out the work of the Great Commission?

Allow me to make it clear that just because our church cannot, as a point of conscience, join an association, denomination, or other such organization it does not follow that we despise the sincere efforts of our brethren who see the issue differently.

Your simple servant,

This is a tough one Ken. There are a whole lot of ex-pastors out there who held to the same mentality. Unfortunately, reforming a church can be akin to what happened in the Reformation. Just as the RCC attempted to eradicate those who stood for reformation, a resistant church will often turn on a pastor and tear him, his wife and children shreds before he realizes the damage done and scurries off with his tail between his legs, or breaks down and does something really stupid. I would propose that it's better to abandon these works and start something up with a solid doctrinal statement and well substantiated foundation that the church can build upon and that will stand the test of time. This can be done in a few years, rather than spending five to ten attempting to reform; which only sometimes works.

Much of the problem in American church planting efforts is that they are doomed to failure before they start because they are a group of disgruntled people who want to start something that they like. And, all too often, they have ideals that can never be met. With this in mind, church planting with full support should be the norm, with a full plan on how to go about it, accompanied by a short and long term plan. And, ideally, more than one family will go to the new plant in order to offer support from day one.

__________________
For the Glory of our King,
Joe Johnson
Slave of Christ, husband, father, Preacherboy at Cornerstone Community Church, Escanaba, MI. and TMS graduate. Personal website - SoundLife.org

I do not know, and I do not say, that a person cannot believe in Revelation and in evolution, too, for a man may believe that which is infinitely wise and also that which is only asinine. ~ CHS

There is a large church in our area that endeavored to reform a struggling, non-Calvinistic, evangelical church. This large church sent one of their church planters to spearhead this effort under the guise of offering organizational and church growth expertise. I'll skip all the sordid details, but suffice to say that the effort failed. Eventually the existing pastor of the struggling church started to question the agenda of the larger church. He surmised that the real reason behind their offer to help was to change the theological landscape of the church. The association was ended. From what I have heard this large church is now seeking to plant a church using the more traditional method of starting from the ground up.

Reforming existing churches is often a fools errand. I'm not saying it can't be done, but why try to undo years or decades of theological, pastoral, or organizational neglect? Unless the circumstances are extraordinary, I would rather see a new work begun; one that is not saddled with prior baggage or unrealistic expectations.

So many declining congregations are beset by corporate culture issues that make them not merely resistent, but absolutely opposed, to being changed. Statistics indicate that church plants grow more rapidly anyway. Sometimes planting a church where you rent from a desperate dying church can be a workable solution.

__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

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"...There has been less focus on ground-zero church planting in large metropolitan areas where there is no or little Reformed witness existing..." Dr. Bob

This is very much true here but in the village (country side) setups. There are village after village where there is no witness and no church in our area, North India.

Can I learn of any Reformed Baptist church in North India or West Nepal for prayer and fellowship?

__________________
<Raj>
Church Planting/Community devolepment

"God doesn't give law to crush us. His intention for us is abundant life. A society is only forced to live under man's oppressive laws when it refuses to live under God's." V. Mangalwadi in India: the grand experiment ( Pippa Rann Books UK)

Blog: www.milapindia.blogspot.com

Raj,

Good word. I tend to favor that strategy that focuses on the larger cities first. Once a church is established in the larger city, that church in turn can begin to send out laborers to plant churches in the smaller districts and villages surrounding the cities. But this is just a strategy and not a hard-fast rule. God sometimes works differently. If a man feels called to go to the smaller villages and plant churches, I wouldn't be unsupportive of his burden.

BTW, I have a very good friend who is presently in North India visiting churches and indigenous pastors with the view to doing missionary work there in the future.

The Bible clearly teaches 'Reformed' theology. Love edifies. Therefore, consistent expositional preaching and teaching by men who truly love their brothers and sisters inevitably reforms a church without the use of subterfuge. Just ask some of the many pastors and teachers on PB who have helped or are helping to reform churches as we speak. Ask Pastor Marshal who is being used to reform a UMC church! Ask Rich who, as a Presby, was used to help reform an SBC church in Okinawa! All they are doing is teaching and living what the Bible says with true love of the brethren.

The problem I have with planting churches in the US is their survival and growth necessitates stealing sheep from other shepherds. Perhaps I am a prude, but that isn't something to take lightly. Isn't the sanctity of church membership one of the tenets of Reformed theology? Shouldn't we encourage people to keep the covenants at the churches they already attend?

Shouldn't our church planting energy/resources be used to plant churches in areas where growth is done by conversion?