Is it the duty of all who hear the Gospel to believe savingly in Christ?




Also, before 1700, were there any who denied this?

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

Somebody correct me if i'm wrong but repentance seems to be a command given by God.

Acts 17:30 The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent, (ESV)

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Gevork Demirchyan
Calvary Bible Church (Burbank, CA)
Glendale, California

Yes, it always has been. Especially after this text

30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

I cannot think of a time where men were allowed to dis-obey their Creator.

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Anthony D'Arienzo
Sunday School Teacher
Hope Reformed Baptist Church:
Medford, N.Y.

We are commanded to obey God perfectly. Just because fallen man has no ability to do this does not change the command. That's why every time a lost person rejects the outward call of the gospel he falls deeper and deeper into covenantal curse with God. It's a savor of death unto death.

Romans 2:1-9, "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;"

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Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls
"But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10

"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton

O boy will I get into trouble but my answer is that it is not the duty of all who hear the gospel to savingly believe in Christ. I will now go and hide

I am not sure, were there any who taught it was?

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Richard
CofE
UK

AV1611: I asked the question because hyper-calvinists usually answer in the NO and deny "duty-faith"- just as you have.


What are the reasons for your answer? Biblical support? What are the implication for evangelism?

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

Because I find no evidence of the apostles calling upon their hearers to believe in Christ indiscriminately. As Gill notes in The Cause of God and Truth

...ministers, in exhorting men to believe in Christ, do not, and cannot consider them as elect or non elect, but as sinners, standing in need of Christ, and salvation by him; and that either as sensible, or as insensible of their state and condition; not as insensible of it; for I do not find that any such are exhorted to believe in Christ for salvation; but as sensible of it, as the jailer was, who trembling said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? When the apostle exhorted him, saying, Believe in the lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved (Acts 16:30, 31).

It means that the gospel is presented in a more God honouring way.

Augustus Toplady:

The joyful sound of what? Of that free grace which it is the business of God’s ministers to proclaim, saying, Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near (Isa. 57:19). That joyful sound which says, Ho, every one (without exception of time, or place, or person), Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters (Isa. 55:1) of life, joy, and salvation. But observe that even this is not a universal call. God forbid that I should be misunderstood by any who hear me this day. Do not imagine that I am hoisting the Arminian colors, and hanging out the false Arminian flag. No, by no means. I suppose there is hardly a more indefinite call, in all God’s Word, than that which I quoted last. But then, take notice, it is addressed only to those that thirst: i.e., to those who so far know the joyful sound as to wish for an experimental participation of the blessings it proclaims. It would be frivolous to call them to the waters who do not thirst. It would be ridiculous mockery, should we invite the dead to sit down at table, and lay a plate and knife and fork before them, and ask them why they will not eat? The plain fact is, they cannot eat nor drink. They must be made alive ere they can have so much as an appetite to either.

John Gill:

And this is the business that you, my Brother, should be constantly employed in, in instructing men that they are not to be saved by their own works, duties and services; that God saves and calls men, not according to their works, but according to his purpose and grace; that men are to expect the pardon of sin, not on the account of their repentance and humiliation, but through the blood of Christ, and according to the riches of God’s grace; that by the deeds of the law no flesh living can be justified in the sight of God but that a man is justified by faith in the righteousness of Christ, without the deeds of the law; that men are not saved by the best works of righteousness done by them, but by the abundant mercy and free grace of God, through Christ. You are to acquaint all that you are concerned with, that salvation is by Christ alone; that God has chosen and appointed him to be his salvation to the ends of the earth; and that he has appointed men to salvation alone by him; that he has sent him into the world to be the Saviour of them; this is the faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, you are to publish and proclaim, that Christ came into the world to save the chief of sinners; and that by his obedience, sufferings, and death, he is become the author of eternal salvation to them; and that there is salvation in him, and in no other; and that there is no other name given under heaven among men whereby they can be saved. Souls sensible of sin and danger, and who are crying out, What shall we do to be saved? you are to observe, and point out Christ the tree of life unto them; and say, as some of the cherubs did to one in such circumstances, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, Acts 16:31. Your work is to lead men, under a sense of sin and guilt, to the blood of Christ, shed for many for the remission of sin; and in his name you are to preach the forgiveness of it to them; you are to direct believers, under your care, to go by faith daily to Christ the mediator, and deal with the blood of sprinkling for the remission of their sins, and the cleansing of their souls; which sprinkled on them speaks peace and pardon, purges the conscience from dead works, and cleanses from all sin. You are to point out the righteousness of Christ, as the only justifying righteousness of men, by whose obedience only men are made righteous; the ministration of the gospel is a ministration of righteousness, even of the righteousness of Christ, which is revealed in it from faith to faith; and such should he your ministration. You are to acquaint men, that this righteousness is unto all, and upon all that believe; and that, such are justified from all things by it, from which they could not be justified by the law of Moses; and that the acceptance of men with God, is only in Christ the beloved. You are to observe to men the atoning sacrifice of the Son of God and to direct them, as one of the cherubs did, pointing to him, and saying, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world! John 1:29, to bid them view the sin-bearing and sin-atoning Saviour, and look to the Lamb in the midst of the throne as though he had been slain; by whose slain sacrifice sin is put away, and they perfected for ever that are sanctified. But more of this may be observed.

And later in the same sermon

And this, my Brother, is a principal part of your work, as one of the cherubs, to direct to Christ the mercy-seat, the channel of the grace and mercy of God to the souls of men; as God set forth Christ in his eternal purposes and decrees to be a propitiation, ιλαζηθιον, Romans 3:25, the same word the Greek interpreters use for the mercy-seat in Exodus 25, so you are to set him forth in your ministrations as the propitiation, propitiatory, and mercy-seat: let the mercy-seat be ever in view; keep in sight in all your ministrations the doctrine of atonement and satisfaction by the blood and sacrifice of Christ; let this be the pole-star by which you steer the course of your ministry; direct souls to the throne of grace, to the mercy-seat, to God in Christ, where they may hope to find grace and mercy to help them in time of need: and, for your encouragement, observe the situation of the cherubim, they were upon the mercy-seat, at the ends of it, being beaten out of the same mass of gold with that; denoting the nearness of ministers to Christ, their union to him, and dependence on him, and support by him, who holds the stars in his right hand: and also his presence with them; for between the cherubim, the shekinah, or glorious majesty of God, dwelt; and Christ has promised to be with his ministers unto the end of the world.

Hope this helps

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Richard
CofE
UK

We've covered this ground before - but this is an interesting twist.

What, Richard, is their duty? non-saving belief?

Perhaps before this discussion goes much further we ought to define "duty".

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://semperubi.rtrc.net

"Many men, after a long conversion, see more of the workings of sin in their hearts than ever they did before or at their first conversion. Now, such men have not an increase of sin, but an increase of illumination and light" (Christopher Love)


Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Their duty is to believe the testimony of God made known to them i.e. Jesus that is the Messiah. You will, I am sure, be aware of the many types of faith we find in Scripture and that the Puritans helpfully point out, such as an historical faith.

Those who have only an external revelation of Christ by the ministry of the word, are obliged to believe no more than that which is included in that revelation, that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah, who died and rose again, and is the Saviour of sinners, etc., but not that he died for them, or that he is their Saviour.

There is also the issue of saving faith and of what does it consist? Too many in the Reformed churches believe that saving faith is but a mere intellectual assent to the truth of the gospel, others would accept that saving faith is more than this but would remove any subjective element of saving faith.

John Gill helpfully explains:

"An assent unto Christ as a Saviour, enters into the true nature of faith; not a bare naked assent of the mind to the truth of the person and offices of Christ; that he is the Son of God, the Messiah, Prophet, Priest, and King, such as has been yielded to him by men destitute of true faith in him, as by Simon Magus and others, yea, by the devils themselves (Luke 4:34,41). "Of all the poison, says Dr. Owen, which at this day is diffused in the minds of men, corrupting them from the mystery of the gospel, there is no part that is more pernicious than this one perverse imagination, that to "believe in Christ" is nothing at all but to "believe the doctrine of the gospel!" which yet we grant is included therein.’... Such a proposition, that Christ is the Saviour of the chief of sinners, or that salvation is alone by him, is not presented merely under the notion of its being "true", and assented to as such, but under the notion of its being "good", a suitable, acceptable, and preferable good, and to be chosen as the good part was by Mary; as being both a "faithful saying" to be believed as true, and as "worthy of all acceptation", to be received and embraced as the chiefest good. Faith is an assent to Christ as a Saviour, not upon an human, but a divine testimony, upon the record which God has given of his Son, and of eternal life in him. Some of the Samaritans believed on Christ because of the saying of the woman; but others because of his own word, having heard him themselves, and knew that he was indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world: true faith, in sensible sinners, assents to Christ, and embraces him not merely as a Saviour of men in general; but as a special, suitable Saviour for them in particular: it proceeds upon Christ’s being revealed "in" them, as well as "to" them, by the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, in the knowledge of him as a Saviour that becomes them; it comes not merely through external teachings, by the hearing of the word from men; but having "heard and learned of the Father", such souls come to Christ, that is, believe in him (John 6:45), not the doctrine of him only, but in him himself."

"That faith by which a man is said to he justified, is not a mere assurance of the object, or a bare persuasion that there is a justifying righteousness in Christ; but that there is a justifying righteousness in Christ for him; and therefore he looks unto, leans, relies, and depends on, and pleads this righteousness for his justification: ... And what is short of this I cannot apprehend to be true faith in Christ, as the Lord our righteousness."

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Richard
CofE
UK

And if this is their duty (their only duty) what benefits to them are derived from doing what is their duty?

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://semperubi.rtrc.net

"Many men, after a long conversion, see more of the workings of sin in their hearts than ever they did before or at their first conversion. Now, such men have not an increase of sin, but an increase of illumination and light" (Christopher Love)


Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

By the way, you're setting up a strawman here. Nobody here agrees with the error that saving faith is mere assent to historical propositions. Let's deal with the present reality.

You say that all men everywhere are commanded only to historical faith as their duty. I ask, so what if
they do their duty? What if they do what you say is that which is required of them? Also, what of the command given by God upon every man, everywhere to repent? Is that not a duty required of all?

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://semperubi.rtrc.net

"Many men, after a long conversion, see more of the workings of sin in their hearts than ever they did before or at their first conversion. Now, such men have not an increase of sin, but an increase of illumination and light" (Christopher Love)


Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

TOdd: Haven't we coveredjustabout EVERY major topic on the PB before? Thanks for indulging me. I want to hear the full justification and how it all ties together from someone who believes this belief first hand. AV1611 seems to have thought this out at least moderately well.

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

AV1611:

Would you call yourself a hyper-calvinist?

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

1. The creatures are to obey their creator simply because of their creature status, i.e. they are to obey because they are being told to believe by their creator.
2. There can however be benefits albeit temporal. For example, if they mended their ways externally then there are great blessings say for example they were unmarried but now they amended their ways externally and got married there are great benefits to that. The same if before they were drunkards but gave up getting drunk after amending their lives externally. I am sure you can come up with other examples. And of course if the nation had repented in Acts 3 they would have avoided AD70 as John Gill explains well here saying

These Jews had crucified the Lord of glory, and for this sin were threatened with miserable destruction; the apostle therefore exhorts them to repent of it, and acknowledge Jesus to be the true Messiah; that so when wrath should come upon their nation to the uttermost, they might be delivered and saved from the general calamity; which, though these would be terrible times to the unbelieving Jews, yet would be times of refreshing to the people of God from troubles and persecutions.

I was simply raising the point that some in the Reformed camp have a view of faith that is close to Sandemenianism (if that is the correct spelling).

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Richard
CofE
UK

Nope. Let us not forget that John Owen went further than Calvin but would we call Owen a hyper-Calvinist? I think not. What argument would you put forward to say that all those who hear the gospel are obligated to believe in Christ savingly?

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Richard
CofE
UK

What else will save them from the wrath to come? Faith in Christ, saving faith, of course, is the only thing that can save them. Is this not properly put forth as an obligation upon all - i.e. if you would be saved, come to Christ? Why is this wrong to do? Why is it wrong to put this in terms of a requirement, or duty, that all men face? I'm really not sure of the cause of your objection, Richard.

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Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://semperubi.rtrc.net

"Many men, after a long conversion, see more of the workings of sin in their hearts than ever they did before or at their first conversion. Now, such men have not an increase of sin, but an increase of illumination and light" (Christopher Love)


Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Is it that you don't like the word "duty", Richard? If this is just semantics concerning the word "duty" let's get beyond that. What is the implication that you take issue with, if we say "everyone is obligated, or has the duty, to come to Christ in saving faith." What do you think that does to harm evangelism? And - how do you think evangelism is properly conducted in light of your statement that some subset of people (I take it you mean the non-elect) are NOT obligated to believe on Christ?

__________________
Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://semperubi.rtrc.net

"Many men, after a long conversion, see more of the workings of sin in their hearts than ever they did before or at their first conversion. Now, such men have not an increase of sin, but an increase of illumination and light" (Christopher Love)


Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

In Jn.8 Jesus said; 45And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

In verse 46,Jesus asked "why do you not believe me" as if it were required. in verse 47 he explains to them their depraved condition, like the goats in Jn 10;26
25Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me



Or, Mt.23:3737O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

or this, 2 pet2: 21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

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Anthony D'Arienzo
Sunday School Teacher
Hope Reformed Baptist Church:
Medford, N.Y.

None of which are relevant.

I will get back to you later Todd....off to uni now.

I would preach:

Come, ye sinners, poor and needy,
Weak and wounded, sick and sore;
Jesus ready stands to save you,
Full of pity, love and power.

I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O there are ten thousand charms.

Come, ye thirsty, come, and welcome,
God’s free bounty glorify;
True belief and true repentance,
Every grace that brings you nigh.

I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O there are ten thousand charms.

Come, ye weary, heavy laden,
Lost and ruined by the fall;
If you tarry till you’re better,
You will never come at all.

I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O there are ten thousand charms.


View Him prostrate in the garden;
On the ground your Maker lies.
On the bloody tree behold Him;
Sinner, will this not suffice?

I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O there are ten thousand charms.


Lo! th’incarnate God ascended,
Pleads the merit of His blood:
Venture on Him, venture wholly,
Let no other trust intrude.

I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O there are ten thousand charms.


Let not conscience make you linger,
Not of fitness fondly dream;
All the fitness He requireth
Is to feel your need of Him.

I will arise and go to Jesus,
He will embrace me in His arms;
In the arms of my dear Savior,
O there are ten thousand charms.

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Richard
CofE
UK

I do not see it as an obligation. Yes faith in Christ is the way of salvation however I do not see that in saying "If you would be saved, come to Christ?" implies faith is a duty. I would be happy to preach it.