Chinese Calvinism flourishes

Edward · #1 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 06:41 PM

Article from the Guardian (a leftist British newspaper) about the growth of Calvinism amoung University students

Chinese Calvinism flourishes | Andrew Brown | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Apologies if already posted; I'm still learning the search function here.

Berean · #2 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Calvinists despise pentecostalists. They shudder at unbridled emotion. If they are slain in the spirit, it is with a single, decorous thump: there's to be no rolling afterwards.

Interesting article. Thanks for posting it.

Ivan · #3 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 07:44 PM

Interesting quote from the article:

Quote:

And in China, the place where Calvinism is spreading fastest is the elite universities, fuelled by prodigies of learning and translation. Wang Xiaochao, a philosopher at one of the Beijing universities, has translated the two major works of St Augustine, the Confessions and the City of God, into Chinese directly from Latin. Gradually all the major works of the first centuries of the Christian tradition are being translated directly from the original languages into Chinese.

It will be interesting to see how this develops in China. Is God going to use this nation to bring the world to Christ? Will China be sending missionaries to the United States in 25-50 years?

This is a most interesting development. And what is the government saying about this? Are they unaware of what's happening? Do they care? I am intrigued.

-----Added 5/29/2009 at 07:44:14 EST-----

Ladies and Gentlemen, please read the whole article. This is fascinating!

jogri17 · #4 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 07:50 PM

ça j'adore! That, I love!

kvanlaan · #5 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 07:54 PM

I don't mean to try and outdo anyone, but here's a totally AWESOME site we used to print from and give to folks there. Talk about your Calvinist Renaissance!

China Christian Books

Ivan · #6 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvanlaan

I don't mean to try and outdo anyone, but here's a totally AWESOME site we used to print from and give to folks there. Talk about your Calvinist Renaissance!

China Christian Books

Outdo anyone? Are we in competition?

The more information the better! I'm a former reference librarian, brother.

May China come to Christ!!

Confessor · #7 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 08:12 PM

Sounds pretty leftist at some points, trying to impugn the movement by marking it as fanciful.

Quote:

Calvinism isn't a religion of subservience to any government. The great national myths of Calvinist cultures are all of wars against imperialist oppressors: the Dutch against the Spanish, the Scots against the English; the Americans against the British. So when the Chinese house churches first emerged from the rubble of the Cultural Revolution in the 80s and 90s "They began to search what theology will support and inform [them]. They read Luther and said, 'not him'. So they read Calvin, and they said 'him, because he has a theology of resistance.' Luther can't teach them or inform them how to deal with a government that is opposition."

And the comments are making me gag. Not that this should be surprising, though...

Ivan · #8 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confessor

Sounds pretty leftist at some points, trying to impugn the movement by marking it as fanciful.

Quote:

Calvinism isn't a religion of subservience to any government. The great national myths of Calvinist cultures are all of wars against imperialist oppressors: the Dutch against the Spanish, the Scots against the English; the Americans against the British. So when the Chinese house churches first emerged from the rubble of the Cultural Revolution in the 80s and 90s "They began to search what theology will support and inform [them]. They read Luther and said, 'not him'. So they read Calvin, and they said 'him, because he has a theology of resistance.' Luther can't teach them or inform them how to deal with a government that is opposition."

I don't see it. Leftist? I see the opposite.

Confessor · #9 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confessor

Sounds pretty leftist at some points, trying to impugn the movement by marking it as fanciful.

Quote:

Calvinism isn't a religion of subservience to any government. The great national myths of Calvinist cultures are all of wars against imperialist oppressors: the Dutch against the Spanish, the Scots against the English; the Americans against the British. So when the Chinese house churches first emerged from the rubble of the Cultural Revolution in the 80s and 90s "They began to search what theology will support and inform [them]. They read Luther and said, 'not him'. So they read Calvin, and they said 'him, because he has a theology of resistance.' Luther can't teach them or inform them how to deal with a government that is opposition."

I don't see it. Leftist? I see the opposite.

I don't mean to say that the actual motives for the Chinese are leftist; I mean that the article is trying to write off the movement as due purely to some wishful thinking. The article is saying that the Chinese are becoming Calvinistic not because of any grain of truth that might exist in Christianity, but because they want resistance.

kvanlaan · #10 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Outdo anyone? Are we in competition? The more information the better! I'm a former reference librarian, brother.

May China come to Christ!!

It is - but the Devil is one step behind. There is a sect called the Eastern Lightening that is devestating many house churches - they teach that Christ not only has come, but is a woman, and has come to TEDA, just down the road from where I lived in China!

Sorry, I made the comment because it was a great article, and I don't mean to try to steal any thunder.

Ivan · #11 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confessor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Confessor

Sounds pretty leftist at some points, trying to impugn the movement by marking it as fanciful.

I don't see it. Leftist? I see the opposite.

I don't mean to say that the actual motives for the Chinese are leftist; I mean that the article is trying to write off the movement as due purely to some wishful thinking. The article is saying that the Chinese are becoming Calvinistic not because of any grain of truth that might exist in Christianity, but because they want resistance.

Ah, yes. Thanks for the clarification. You're right. Of course this article comes from the Guardian in the UK. What can we expect?...nothing.

Seb · #12 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 08:43 PM

That's a very interesting and encouraging article.

I pray that our God will do great things in China that brings glory and His people to Himself.

I do think the article should have ended about 1/2 a page earlier than it did, it seems that the author has a bias against Calvin, and Christianity in general, that he really started to show on the second page close to the end.

Ivan · #13 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvanlaan

Quote:

Outdo anyone? Are we in competition? The more information the better! I'm a former reference librarian, brother.

May China come to Christ!!

It is - but the Devil is one step behind. There is a sect called the Eastern Lightening that is devestating many house churches - they teach that Christ not only has come, but is a woman, and has come to TEDA, just down the road from where I lived in China!

Sorry, I made the comment because it was a great article, and I don't mean to try to steal any thunder.

I am confident that God is stronger than the Devil and that His thunder will not be stolen.

kvanlaan · #14 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 09:24 PM

Yep, me too. And I've seen that again and again in China. When men count themselves blessed for their beatings and time in prison, as I have seen from Chinese pastors, you know that the Spirit is moving.

**Marrow Man** · #15 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 09:37 PM

If you read the next blog article, it seems that he is fascinated with Calvinism and has a great deal of respect with the effects of Calvinism upon western society. He does not care for the doctrine of reprobation, but that is hardly surprising. And he doesn't repeat the "Calvin had Servetus burned" myth.

The thing that bothered me was that his main source was the "Rev. May Tan." Somehow I don't think Calvin would have approved.

Ivan · #16 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marrow Man

The thing that bothered me was that his main source was the "Rev. May Tan." Somehow I don't think Calvin would have approved.

Indeed.

Puritan Sailor · #17 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 09:58 PM

Interesting article. More to pray for.

Those comments after the article though were extremely sad, so blind.... How they think that life under Calvinist influence is so awful, when under secular governments and causes over 100 million have died in the last century alone, just astounding to see their ignorance....

Ivan · #18 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puritan Sailor

Interesting article. More to pray for.

Those comments after the article though were extremely sad, so blind.... How they think that life under Calvinist influence is so awful, when under secular governments and causes over 100 million have died in the last century alone, just astounding to see their ignorance....

We should not be surprised.

YXU · #19 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan

Interesting quote from the article:

Quote:

And in China, the place where Calvinism is spreading fastest is the elite universities, fuelled by prodigies of learning and translation. Wang Xiaochao, a philosopher at one of the Beijing universities, has translated the two major works of St Augustine, the Confessions and the City of God, into Chinese directly from Latin. Gradually all the major works of the first centuries of the Christian tradition are being translated directly from the original languages into Chinese.

It will be interesting to see how this develops in China. Is God going to use this nation to bring the world to Christ? Will China be sending missionaries to the United States in 25-50 years?

This is a most interesting development. And what is the government saying about this? Are they unaware of what's happening? Do they care? I am intrigued.

-----Added 5/29/2009 at 07:44:14 EST-----

Ladies and Gentlemen, please read the whole article. This is fascinating!

In the 1950's, Augustine's Confession was translated once together with the Calvin's Institutes. The professor here mentioned is a secular professor, many of those works published by the government are translated by secular professors. Last year, my previous pastor went to Yanshan University (a big university in the suburb of the capital) and addressed several issues to these learnt men, however, it was not well received.

The true condition of the country is unkown even to us, because the vast west part of the country is almost like a mystery to our Chinese. However, I am very confident that the claim of revival in our country is not accurate, the actual condition is very worrying.

Regarding translation, Augustine's works were translated for the Classic major or Philosophy major students, and I have never heard about anything about other current translation project of the early fathers.

Romans 8 Verse 28 · #20 (**permalink**) 05-29-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward

Article from the Guardian (a leftist British newspaper) about the growth of Calvinism amoung University students

Chinese Calvinism flourishes | Andrew Brown | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

That was a very interesting article, I appreciate you posting it. May the Lord bless the Reformed faith to flourish there in China.

The comment section on the article is sad. For example, one person stated:

Quote:

Would this be the same Calvin who had people executed in Geneva for heresy?

Luther, Calvin, Cranmer - are there any Protestant heroes without blood on their hands?

I've heard the above nonsense or something similar many times, sadly.

Re4mdant · #21 (**permalink**) 05-30-2009, 03:43 AM

Good and interesting article thanks

kalawine · #22 (**permalink**) 05-30-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward

Article from the Guardian (a leftist British newspaper) about the growth of Calvinism amoung University students

Chinese Calvinism flourishes | Andrew Brown | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Apologies if already posted; I'm still learning the search function here.

This is so very exciting to me! For some time now I have been perched on my Amillennial fence looking over at the "greener grass" of the Postmillennial position (or at least Optimistic Amillennial – please, let's not debate that one here). This kind of news causes me to want to jump the fence! It is such an amazing coincidence (?) that just hours before I read this post I was contemplating a theory with my best friend (Seb) about the possibility of the Lord using China to spread a worldwide revival.

It wasn’t this news that caused us to begin thinking this way as we had no idea that this was going on in the Chinese universities. I was basing my suspicions on the fact that the members of the house Churches are willing to sacrifice life and limb for their faith and that (like ancient Rome) instead of putting out the revival fires it is spreading them. I had no idea that they were Calvinist! (Figures don’t it?)

Steve was telling me about the Chinese government being an outside pressure on our government not to bankrupt itself. We began to discuss the possibility of the Holy Spirit sweeping through China with a great revival that could replace the Communist regime with a Christian one. I’ve been reading for years of many financial experts that say that Asia is going to be the next great monetary Super Power within the next twenty years (probably 10 to 15 by now). Could you just imagine the young people in this new China being the people in power someday if or when (or perhaps after) China decides to “cash in” on what the US owes her?

Before now I would never have dreamed that I might rejoice in the possible “invasion” of our nation.

BTW Please don’t respond to this post by informing me that this is all speculation. I’m aware of that. I’m a big boy and I don’t claim to be a prophet. But I do believe the potential here is really serious. And world wide revival or not, this is exciting!