Thread: Best and worst methods of witnessing in the US

What are the best and worst methods of witnessing/evangelism in the US, both inside and outside the church? If you're answer for inside the church is "preaching" what are the elements that would be included as helpful to unbelievers.

One of the worst I saw was in New York City on a busy holiday weekend. A group of conservative/fundamentalist church goers from upstate New York descended on the street near Macy's and proceeded to shout at everyone going by about how they were sinners and deserved God's wrath. One of the guy's was wearing a t-shirt depicting the Pope as the antichrist; otherwise everyone else was wearing plain, somber clothing and all the women had long hair and dresses.

As you might expect, your typical New Yorker doesn't take too kindly to be shouted at (about anything, let alone "religion"). I watched for a while and it was painful as both sides hurled verbal abuse at each other. Those witnessing clearly lacked both grace and love for those they were "witnessing" to and it sadly seemed like they were doing it so they could go back to their little town upstate and be self-satisfied in how they told those evil city dwellers about their sin.

I tried to speak quietly and respectfully to one of the leaders about their method and he basically told me where to go.

Needless to say, I would put Tim Keller's preaching at the other end of the scale in terms of best methods of witnessing to people in NYC. He has a humble spirit, patience with unbelievers' questions, and gets to the heart of many of the stumbling blocks people have to the gospel.

The worst form of evangelism: Church goers who are living in sin, drinking on the weekends, viewing **** on their computers, and cussing like sailors urging their co-workers to just say the sinner's prayer.

The whole "God yuvs you and has a speshel [sic] plan for your life" line.

Originally Posted by jonmo

One of the worst I saw was in New York City on a busy holiday weekend. A group of conservative/fundamentalist church goers from upstate New York descended on the street near Macy's and proceeded to shout at everyone going by about how they were sinners and deserved God's wrath. One of the guy's was wearing a t-shirt depicting the Pope as the antichrist; otherwise everyone else was wearing plain, somber clothing and all the women had long hair and dresses.

As you might expect, your typical New Yorker doesn't take too kindly to be shouted at (about anything, let alone "religion"). I watched for a while and it was painful as both sides hurled verbal abuse at each other. Those witnessing clearly lacked both grace and love for those they were "witnessing" to and it sadly seemed like they were doing it so they could go back to their little town upstate and be self-satisfied in how they told those evil city dwellers about their sin.

I tried to speak quietly and respectfully to one of the leaders about their method and he basically told me where to go.

Needless to say, I would put Tim Keller's preaching at the other end of the scale in terms of best methods of witnessing to people in NYC. He has a humble spirit, patience with unbelievers' questions, and gets to the heart of many of the stumbling blocks people have to the gospel.

Sure these werent Black Israelites? They preach in the streets of Newyork every week. Their black males, who teach salvation by works, and deny the deity of Jesus. You can "youtube" them.

Originally Posted by Knoxienne

The whole "God yuvs you and has a speshel [sic] plan for your life" line.

This. I can't stand this petty witnessing. There has to be a balance between being truly concerned for the lost, yet explaining how they are currently children of wrath.

Knock on a door, hand someone a tract, smile and leave

-----Added 6/30/2009 at 08:05:57 EST-----

Originally Posted by jonmo

One of the worst I saw was in New York City on a busy holiday weekend. A group of conservative/fundamentalist church goers from upstate New York descended on the street near Macy's and proceeded to shout at everyone going by about how they were sinners and deserved God's wrath. One of the guy's was wearing a t-shirt depicting the Pope as the antichrist; otherwise everyone else was wearing plain, somber clothing and all the women had long hair and dresses.

As you might expect, your typical New Yorker doesn't take too kindly to be shouted at (about anything, let alone "religion"). I watched for a while and it was painful as both sides hurled verbal abuse at each other. Those witnessing clearly lacked both grace and love for those they were "witnessing" to and it sadly seemed like they were doing it so they could go back to their little town upstate and be self-satisfied in how they told those evil city dwellers about their sin.

I tried to speak quietly and respectfully to one of the leaders about their method and he basically told me where to go.

Needless to say, I would put Tim Keller's preaching at the other end of the scale in terms of best methods of witnessing to people in NYC. He has a humble spirit, patience with unbelievers' questions, and gets to the heart of many of the stumbling blocks people have to the gospel.

Were they from Word of Life Bible Institute?

Anything that is a method. Can you imagine Jesus saying the same thing, or using the same "program" to the woman at the well and the money changers in the temple?

Originally Posted by KMK

The worst form of evangelism: Church goers who are living in sin, drinking on the weekends, viewing **** on their computers, and cussing like sailors urging their co-workers to just say the sinner's prayer.

If we drink all week long are we off the hook?

Worst? Oh, there are so many, it's hard to choose ...

Ok, well, there was this time that my mother lined us kids up on the sidewalk on a streetcorner downtown at night and had us sing Christian songs.

A car going by spun up some small pebbles with its wheels in our direction (accidentally, I'm sure--who could do that on purpose?) and my mother started shrieking, "They are stoning us like Stephen!"

Yeah, that was bad.

Among the worst methods is the psychological manipulation method, made famous in IFB. Here you manipulate emotions by scaring the dickens out of them by preaching about the torments of hell and then present Jesus, not as Creator, King, Lord, High Priest, Son of God, but rather as an insurance policy against such misfortune. First you appeal to their pride-driven sense of self-preservation, walk them quickly through the "Romans Road" and then press for a prayer, assuring them that by doing so they have "saved their soul" from eternal torment. Manipulation, misuse of Scripture, and Arminian decisionism all wrapped into one.

Originally Posted by Caroline

Worst? Oh, there are so many, it's hard to choose ...

Ok, well, there was this time that my mother lined us kids up on the sidewalk on a streetcorner downtown at night and had us sing Christian songs.

A car going by spun up some small pebbles with its wheels in our direction (accidentally, I'm sure--who could do that on purpose?) and my mother started shrieking, "They are stoning us like Stephen!"

Yeah, that was bad.

Oh my!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by KSon

Among the worst methods is the psychological manipulation method, made famous in IFB. Here you manipulate emotions by scaring the dickens out of them by preaching about the torments of hell and then present Jesus, not as Creator, King, Lord, High Priest, Son of God, but rather as an insurance policy against such misfortune. First you appeal to their pride-driven sense of self-preservation, walk them quickly through the "Romans Road" and then press for a prayer, assuring them that by doing so they have "saved their soul" from eternal torment. Manipulation, misuse of Scripture, and Arminian decisionism all wrapped into one.

This is so true. Appeals to self-preservation, making threats ... that's really a horrible way to do evangelism. This is one reason I love Reformed churches, by the way--because they end with a benediction. I'm all burned out on church services that end by telling you to ask yourself whether you are sure you are saved or whether you would go to hell if you died tonight. I have seen 'altar calls' that were just abusive in the way they reduced good, sincere believers to tears and filled them with doubts about their salvation. It might get people to the front to pray, but in the long run, I think it did much more harm than good.

It is so much more helpful to hear at the end, "May God bless you and keep you ... etc" or one of the other peaceful and encouraging blessings from God to His people.

No - it definitely wasn't the Black Israelites! The folks I mentioned were in many ways at the other end of the spectrum. I know the Black Israelites - they are always around Times Square - generally whipping up corn-fed tourists from Kansas.

The guys I am referring to were definitely all white and, judging by their comments on everyone else in the world, I doubt if they would be that excited about other races, either.

-----Added 7/1/2009 at 08:17:06 EST-----

Originally Posted by Rich Koster

Were they from Word of Life Bible Institute?

I don't remember for sure (it was about five years ago) but their website/location sort of fits the bill (although the folks on the website look "hipper" - but that's often the way with the web). Thanks.

I think one of the worst might be protesting the funerals of the military with signs that say, "God hates fags." With children holding up the signs with naughty stick figures.

Originally Posted by Pergamum

What are the best and worst methods of witnessing/evangelism in the US, both inside and outside the church? If you're answer for inside the church is "preaching" what are the elements that would be included as helpful to unbelievers.

I would argue that while there are times when an unbeliever might be in a church and hear the Word preached, the worship of God's people is NOT the place for trying to reach the lost. A worship service is where those that know God, are called to do the worshiping. That there is a possibility that an elect person that does not yet believe is there is tangential to worship. God is the one "watching" worship, the congregation are the ones "performing" worship, those that lead worship need to do everything in worship so that those that are doing the worship (the congregation) are doing so in a way that pleases God.

That there is a call to repentance as part of worship can be included, but the main thrust of every worship service ought to be the people of God praising and thanking God for his attributes, his acts, and all his blessings toward us.

The best method... I think is a one on one conversation where we spend as much time listening as talking. Begin to work in creation and how all things were created good, move to the fall/sin, and then Christ, while applying all of this practically so that it fits in with their life...

Originally Posted by Brian Withnell

Originally Posted by Pergamum

What are the best and worst methods of witnessing/evangelism in the US, both inside and outside the church? If you're answer for inside the church is "preaching" what are the elements that would be included as helpful to unbelievers.

I would argue that while there are times when an unbeliever might be in a church and hear the Word preached, the worship of God's people is NOT the place for trying to reach the lost. A worship service is where those that know God, are called to do the worshiping. That there is a possibility that an elect person that does not yet believe is there is tangential to worship. God is the one "watching" worship, the congregation are the ones "performing" worship, those that lead worship need to do everything in worship so that those that are doing the worship (the congregation) are doing so in a way that pleases God.

That there is a call to repentance as part of worship can be included, but the main thrust of every worship service ought to be the people of God praising and thanking God for his attributes, his acts, and all his blessings toward us.

Are you saying the Gospel should not be preached during worship services?

The "method" I use, if you can say it is a method, is just telling people that Jesus is a real person who really came to earth, really lived, really died, really rose from the dead, and has really ascended to the right hand of the Father. I didn't know that when I was an atheist. When I found out, it solidified my faith. God was already working in me to hope that the gospel was true and confirmed my hope when I learned that Jesus existed. When I ministered to international students in college, most of those students didn't know He existed. Some may have heard the "story" but it was often clouded in "testimonies" and other personal veils. Unbelievers need to hear the facts and the Good News (i.e. He has risen!). When the first missionaries went out they simply told the world that Jesus rose from the dead; He is the promised one. Opinions don't matter; Rhetoric doesn't matter; I don't matter; only Truth, only God matters. The Good News doesn't have to be complicated.

I have found testimonies to be a way for people to receive the Gospel with being repulsed due to preachiness. A personal testimony often glorified God, has good results, and is a very biblical way of witnessing to others.

Originally Posted by Pergamum

I have found testimonies to be a way for people to receive the Gospel with being repulsed due to preachiness. A personal testimony often glorified God, has good results, and is a very biblical way of witnessing to others.

I'm not so sure. Testimonies have been made popular, I believe, due to the influences of postmodernism on our culture, but the Bible never--to my knowledge--affirms testimonies as a means of communicating the gospel. A testimony is at bottom a story about me, but the gospel is the story about Jesus--and more than a story, it consists of the divine command to repent and believe, the explanation of God's character, and teaching on what sin is and its consequences.

Originally Posted by Der Pilger

Originally Posted by Pergamum

I have found testimonies to be a way for people to receive the Gospel with being repulsed due to preachiness. A personal testimony often glorified God, has good results, and is a very biblical way of witnessing to others.

I'm not so sure. Testimonies have been made popular, I believe, due to the influences of postmodernism on our culture, but the Bible never--to my knowledge--affirms testimonies as a means of communicating the gospel. A testimony is at bottom a story about me, but the gospel is the story about Jesus--and more than a story, it consists of the divine command to repent and believe, the explanation of God's character, and teaching on what sin is and its consequences.

Mark 5
1And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.

2And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,

3Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:

4Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.

5And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.

6But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

7And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

8For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

9And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.

10And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.

11Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.

12And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.

13And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

14And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.

15And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.

16And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine.

17And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts.

18And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.

19Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.

20And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.

Jesus commands personal testimonies!

Originally Posted by XBlackWaterX

Sure these werent Black Israelites? They preach in the streets of Newyork every week. Their black males, who teach salvation by works, and deny the deity of Jesus. You can "youtube" them.

The Black Israelites went against the KKK on Jerry Springer! LOL. (It's on Youtube, which is the only reason I know. Seriously! )

The worst witnessing I have seen has been done by groups like the Westborough Baptist "church." Megaphones, ignorant hate speech, signs with hate, youtube videos filled with hate and poor doctrine, websites filled with hate and poor teaching... all under the name of orthodox, calvinistic Christianity. UGH.
The best witnessing I have seen was done by my father. He brought a fifteen year old boy into our home when I was almost ten and mentored, discipled, and fathered him because he had a horribly broken home. Through my dad's love to this boy the Lord brought salvation to him. Then the boy died shortly thereafter, my dad performed his funeral, and others came to Christ through it, including this guy who I posted a prayer request for.

Originally Posted by Pergamum

Originally Posted by Der Pilger

Originally Posted by Pergamum

I have found testimonies to be a way for people to receive the Gospel with being repulsed due to preachiness. A personal testimony often glorified God, has good results, and is a very biblical way of witnessing to others.

I'm not so sure. Testimonies have been made popular, I believe, due to the influences of postmodernism on our culture, but the Bible never--to my knowledge--affirms testimonies as a means of communicating the gospel. A testimony is at bottom a story about me, but the gospel is the story about Jesus--and more than a story, it consists of the divine command to repent and believe, the explanation of God's character, and teaching on what sin is and its consequences.

19Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.

20And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.

Jesus commands personal testimonies!

As a means of communicating the gospel? No. It is unthinkable that the Lord Jesus would command somebody to use their testimony as the gospel message--not only because this text doesn't warrant that view but also since the apostle Paul focused on Christ alone in his preaching. He preached Christ and him crucified, and he did so because he knew that a charge was laid upon him to do so.

Worst: bumper stickers and church signs

"God reads knee-mail!"
"In case of rapture, this car will be unmanned!"
"God said it, I believe it, that settles it!"

UGH.

Originally Posted by raekwon

Worst: bumper stickers and church signs

"God reads knee-mail!"
"In case of rapture, this car will be unmanned!"
"God said it, I believe it, that settles it!"

UGH.

Real Christians at least have a fish or two on the back of their car though. Maybe one could even have a big Christian fishy swallowing a Darwin fish. That seems like the Christian thing to do.

worst- the track method, it may be granted that it could use people starting out as a tool to prolaiming the Gospel, but they should not be doing in front of bars, leaving it in bathrooms, or knocking on doors and just giving to people.

best way- get into conversations with people about what they believe and why and move that into the Gospel. You can use general revelation to reveal God and his character. This method can take years, but it produces stronger and more firm christians then the track format.

Originally Posted by Der Pilger

Originally Posted by Pergamum

Originally Posted by Der Pilger

I'm not so sure. Testimonies have been made popular, I believe, due to the influences of postmodernism on our culture, but the Bible never--to my knowledge--affirms testimonies as a means of communicating the gospel. A testimony is at bottom a story about me, but the gospel is the story about Jesus--and more than a story, it consists of the divine command to repent and believe, the explanation of God's character, and teaching on what sin is and its consequences.

19Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.

20And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.

Jesus commands personal testimonies!

As a means of communicating the gospel? No. It is unthinkable that the Lord Jesus would command somebody to use their testimony as the gospel message--not only because this text doesn't warrant that view but also since the apostle Paul focused on Christ alone in his preaching. He preached Christ and him crucified, and he did so because he knew that a charge was laid upon him to do so.

This text adequately supports the practice of many laymen telling people how God has has blessed them in their lives. It is Biblical, it is effective. It is not the same as preaching from a pulpit, nor does it need to be.

Originally Posted by KMK

Are you saying the Gospel should not be preached during worship services?

I'm saying that evangelism is ancillary to worship. The whole of the gospel (if you mean all of God's word) should be preached, but the object is not the proclamation to the lost so they might hear and repent. The preaching of the word is the element of worship that brings God's message to God's people.

Originally Posted by Brian Withnell

the object is not the proclamation to the lost so they might hear and repent.

When are the lost going to hear the preaching of preachers sent by God so that they might be saved? (Rom 10)

Originally Posted by Brian Withnell

The preaching of the word is the element of worship that brings God's message to God's people.

Which includes the call. Are you saying that preaching of the word is not for the lost, but only for the converted?

Originally Posted by Pergamum

Originally Posted by Der Pilger

Originally Posted by Pergamum

Jesus commands personal testimonies!

As a means of communicating the gospel? No. It is unthinkable that the Lord Jesus would command somebody to use their testimony as the gospel message--not only because this text doesn't warrant that view but also since the apostle Paul focused on Christ alone in his preaching. He preached Christ and him crucified, and he did so because he knew that a charge was laid upon him to do so.

This text adequately supports the practice of many laymen telling people how God has has blessed them in their lives. It is Biblical, it is effective. It is not the same as preaching from a pulpit, nor does it need to be.

Preaching from a pulpit is irrelevant; that's not what this thread is about. You're right: The text supports telling people how God has blessed them, but that only. There is nothing said here about communicating the gospel message; evangelism is completely foreign to the text--unless evangelism consists simply of telling people, "Look at what great things God has done in my life." If that were the case, though, Paul was greatly--and tragically--mistaken.

Be wary of replacing the gospel message with personal testimony. The two are not identical or interchangeable. Church culture has generally become very afraid of proclaiming the good news for fear of turning off people, being rejected, or being irrelevant (though the gospel is actually the most relevant message for man because it addresses his greatest need). Nevertheless, and in spite of contemporary trends, God's means of saving people--the gospel--has not changed. It is effective all on its own; there is no need for us to strive to find new ways to communicate it. Just communicate it. Tell it. Proclaim it. Announce it.

-----Added 7/2/2009 at 08:51:50 EST-----

Originally Posted by Grimmson

worst- the track method, it may be granted that it could use people starting out as a tool to prolaiming the Gospel, but they should not be doing in front of bars, leaving it in bathrooms, or knocking on doors and just giving to people.

It's spelled "tract," by the way. :-)

Why? In principle, this is precisely what Jesus and the apostles did--communicate the truth, i.e., "just giving to people."

best way- get into conversations with people about what they believe and why and move that into the Gospel. You can use general revelation to reveal God and his character. This method can take years, but it produces stronger and more firm christians then the track format.

Any approach that has as its goal the complete, accurate communication of the gospel message is sound. It is the approaches that fall short of that which need to be cautioned against.

To me, the best way takes a while. Let others see us living with godly attributes as we communicate the message verballywhen we are prompted.

Originally Posted by Rich Koster

To me, the best way takes a while. Let others see us living with godly attributes as we communicate the message verballywhen we are prompted.

So, according to you, this is the way to communicate the gospel:

Step 1: Don't communicate the gospel. Give others a chance to see your life.
Step 2: Communicate the gospel when prompted.

Is that what you mean?

Originally Posted by Der Pilger

Originally Posted by Pergamum

Originally Posted by Der Pilger

As a means of communicating the gospel? No. It is unthinkable that the Lord Jesus would command somebody to use their testimony as the gospel message--not only because this text doesn't warrant that view but also since the apostle Paul focused on Christ alone in his preaching. He preached Christ and him crucified, and he did so because he knew that a charge was laid upon him to do so.

This text adequately supports the practice of many laymen telling people how God has has blessed them in their lives. It is Biblical, it is effective. It is not the same as preaching from a pulpit, nor does it need to be.

Preaching from a pulpit is irrelevant; that's not what this thread is about. You're right: The text supports telling people how God has blessed them, but that only. There is nothing said here about communicating the gospel message; evangelism is completely foreign to the text--unless evangelism consists simply of telling people, "Look at what great things God has done in my life." If that were the case, though, Paul was greatly--and tragically--mistaken.

Be wary of replacing the gospel message with personal testimony. The two are not identical or interchangeable. Church culture has generally become very afraid of proclaiming the good news for fear of turning off people, being rejected, or being irrelevant (though the gospel is actually the most relevant message for man because it addresses his greatest need). Nevertheless, and in spite of contemporary trends, God's means of saving people--the gospel--has not changed. It is effective all on its own; there is no need for us to strive to find new ways to communicate it. Just communicate it. Tell it. Proclaim it. Announce it.

-----Added 7/2/2009 at 08:51:50 EST-----

Originally Posted by Grimmson

worst- the track method, it may be granted that it could use people starting out as a tool to prolaiming the Gospel, but they should not be doing in front of bars, leaving it in bathrooms, or knocking on doors and just giving to people.

It's spelled "tract," by the way. :-)

Why? In principle, this is precisely what Jesus and the apostles did--communicate the truth, i.e., "just giving to people."

best way- get into conversations with people about what they believe and why and move that into the Gospel. You can use general revelation to reveal God and his character. This method can take years, but it produces stronger and more firm christians then the track format.

Any approach that has as its goal the complete, accurate communication of the gospel message is sound. It is the approaches that fall short of that which need to be cautioned against.

You are being too rigid. The Gospel of Mark DOES give us Jesus' approval of personal testimony, if you disagree, take it up with him.

Every Gospel presentation need not be a complete Gospel presentation. THat's nearly impossible given the fleeting nature of some of our encounters. What IS a complete Gospel presentation anyway? It usually means talking AT someone until you finish a spiel, and the person trying to be polite but really wanting to get away, if you try to give the WHOLE presentation to a total stranger in one sitting. Jesus did not do a GOSPEL DUMP on people when he met them; he dialogued with them and I am merely trying to follow his example.

Also, personal testimonies are a good entry point into deeper conversations. It helps to get the person open and ready to hear more. I have had people ask me follow up questions afterwards due to the non-threatening nature of personal testimonies.

Finally, personal testimonies are not devoid of Gospel or theology. During my personal testimonies that I have given, I told them why I came to beleive in God, why I believed and what it was that I was reading (Romans 1 through 4) that persuaded me when I believed.

The key is that this is dialogue and not one-way witness of trying to cram as much down someone's throat as possible during the short time in which they will politely endure you. This is a talk about changes in life, and about how my life improved, and it draws people in rather than repels them like much witnessing does in our day. We want interaction with those we are trying to reach, we are niot giving them an entire sales pitch or spiel...that closes doors.

Besides, I bet that former-demoniac had a lot of Gospel to tell his neighbors and I think Jesus wouldhave approved his words.

Originally Posted by KMK

Originally Posted by Brian Withnell

the object is not the proclamation to the lost so they might hear and repent.

When are the lost going to hear the preaching of preachers sent by God so that they might be saved? (Rom 10)

Originally Posted by Brian Withnell

The preaching of the word is the element of worship that brings God's message to God's people.

Which includes the call. Are you saying that preaching of the word is not for the lost, but only for the converted?

The preaching of the word is not specifically for the lost. The main form of bringing people into the church is through birth, those that are not covenant members come to Christ through the preaching of the word, but a well established church is negligent if it is always preaching messages geared toward the lost. That all of scripture speaks of Christ is enough. Those that are elect will be saved ... it is the job of the leaders to build up the church. The model in Eph. 4:11-16 is a picture of a fully functioning church.

And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

In the Eph 4 model, the preacher is there for the equipping of the saints, then as the whole body does its function, "causes the growth of the body". The lost do come to hear, but the service isn't for the lost. They hear the proper function of the body and see the love of Christ in the body and believe. The message of course contains elements of evangelism, but that is not its chief end.

If the chief end of the preaching is calling the lost to Christ, the message of God to his church is muted (not lost, but not what it ought to be). The purpose of all the gifts of God to his church (evangelists, pastors, teachers) is to equip the saints, the building up of the body ... so that the body does the works of service. Yes, the lost hear the preaching as they are being brought into the church by the body, but it is the body that is being equipped, not the lost being explicitly called.

Rom 10 is a model for going into the world without a church ... verse 14 is immediately followed by verse 15, sent means out from the church and why would someone be sent to a place with a church already existing? Once a church is in place, the model shifts to Eph. 4 as the preaching is there, the body is there, and the body grows more as a result of the natural function of the body than the preacher continually preaching what does not build the body, but births a body in an area in which there was no body before. Is the church established? Are there elders? Then the missionary is either sent on to another place, or changes from missionary to pastor of a church responsible for the growth of the body.

Maybe we should have two split-off threads, one on (1) who preaching is for and one on (2) personal testimonies.

Originally Posted by Rich Koster

Knock on a door, hand someone a tract, smile and leave

-----Added 6/30/2009 at 08:05:57 EST-----

Originally Posted by jonmo

One of the worst I saw was in New York City on a busy holiday weekend. A group of conservative/fundamentalist church goers from upstate New York descended on the street near Macy's and proceeded to shout at everyone going by about how they were sinners and deserved God's wrath. One of the guy's was wearing a t-shirt depicting the Pope as the antichrist; otherwise everyone else was wearing plain, somber clothing and all the women had long hair and dresses.

As you might expect, your typical New Yorker doesn't take too kindly to be shouted at (about anything, let alone "religion"). I watched for a while and it was painful as both sides hurled verbal abuse at each other. Those witnessing clearly lacked both grace and love for those they were "witnessing" to and it sadly seemed like they were doing it so they could go back to their little town upstate and be self-satisfied in how they told those evil city dwellers about their sin.

I tried to speak quietly and respectfully to one of the leaders about their method and he basically told me where to go.

Needless to say, I would put Tim Keller's preaching at the other end of the scale in terms of best methods of witnessing to people in NYC. He has a humble spirit, patience with unbelievers' questions, and gets to the heart of many of the stumbling blocks people have to the gospel.

Were they from Word of Life Bible Institute?

Rich, please don't insinuate that students of WOLBI are like that. They aren't. I know because I am a graduate. Word of Life uses the Open Air Campaigners method of street evangelism. They do not shout in the streets and call people sinners. Word of Life is not Reformed nor Calvinistic. They are within the main stream Baptist genre. Good people who have a sincere desire to see sinners converted. Is their soteriology off base? Sure it is. I am not defending aberrant doctrine, but I have witnessed first hand genuine conversions in spite of their free will leanings. I just want to set the record straight on my Alma Mater.

The best way to witness outside of the church (and the family) is to live like Christ and personal testimony. As it has already been said, sometimes it takes a long time. I go to the local open air market in my community every week to sell things, and I am amazed at the number of opportunities I've had to share the Gospel with people every week. Sometimes it starts with nothing more than a discussion about something completely unrelated to the Gospel.

Within the church and apart from the preaching of the word (and yes it would make a great thread to discuss this), I think the personal lives of the believers, their personal testimony and behavior toward those who come into the church from the outside is the greatest witness to the lost.

One of the worst: Going to a heavy metal concert carrying a huge cross on one's back that has a little wheel at the bottom to make it easier to transport. Then start telling all the metal heads they're are hell bound because they listen to heavy metal.