I've had an ongoing evangelistic dialog with a couple from Germany--humanists but seriously seeking the truth and wanting to know God (if there is a God). They have responded well to presuppositional apologetics and have moved toward the kingdom. However, they have not entered. If they should come to the point of wanting to commit themselves to God, what alternative is there to an "Ask Jesus into your heart" routine? I'd like to make "grace alone" clear but yet make sure that they understand the concept of lordship. Is there some kind of canned prayer that avoids both easy-believism and works righteousness?

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Mary Vanderkooi
Kale Heywott Church (KHC)
Soddo, Ethiopia

The idea of "asking Jesus into your heart" is not helpful. Instead note the preaching of Jesus which was basically "repent for the kingdom is at hand" whilst in the book of Acts Paul states that God commands all men everywhere to repent. Other elements are that Jesus has been made both Lord and Christ. There is no hope except calling out to God. There are no words that can be used except the persons own heartfelt words that he prays. If the Holy Spirit is convicting him then he will find the words to say.

I would also keep in mind two key points:-

1. "No one comes to the Son unless the Father draws him" (Jn 6.44)
2. It is the Holy Spirit's role to convict the world of sin, righteousness and judgement (Jn 16.8)

If neither of these two things happen then despite the best reasoned arguements and the clearest presentation of the gospel, they will never be converted. If one of these two things happens then the other will also occur and as I said above there is no set prayer to pray or pattern of words to use. The convicted person will find the words from his own heart.

I would tend to show that although the person may be good living the heart harbours pride, lust, greed, envy etc. If these are given free reign then wh knows what the person could end up doing.

We should pray that the Father would draw (the actual word implies being even dragged) more to the son. Humanists need to be dragged by the Holy Spirit to the sin just as the good living religious person.

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Stuart
Elder, Lambeg Baptist, Northern Ireland, UK

In Him the fulness of the Godhead dwells in bodily form and in Him you are complete (Col 2.9-10)

The sacrifice of a broken heart doth please Him but the sacrifice of a broken Christ alone doth satisfy Him (Richard Steele)

repent and believe?

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Davidius
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

This may explain the old adage about Baptists being Methodists with shoes, and Presbyterians being Baptists who can read. To round out the adage, Lutherans might qualify as Presbyterians who drink to excess, and Episcopalians as Lutherans who know when to say when. - D.G. Hart

I can't say that I've ever suggested to anyone, "ask Jesus into your heart". Rather, it seems that David's approach is what we see in Scripture. There are different ways, of course, that this comes up in conversation with people - but the image of "asking Jesus" into my heart is one of my being in control, and my making the invitation, in the hopes that Jesus might stoop to come in. It seems far more reasonable to discuss with people the state of their soul outside of Christ, the severity of God's justice, and the magnificence and bounty of His grace... and to offer to them that Jesus died to atone for the sins of people like them; and that those who repent of themselves, their lives, and their sin, and come to Him in faith will in no wise be cast out.

__________________
Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://semperubi.rtrc.net

"Many men, after a long conversion, see more of the workings of sin in their hearts than ever they did before or at their first conversion. Now, such men have not an increase of sin, but an increase of illumination and light" (Christopher Love)


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Embrace Christ as He is freely offered to you in the gospel.

Accept Christ as Saviour and Lord.

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

Well Daniel in America we would say "Accept Christ as Savior and Lord".

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church

Student of Theology
Pittsburgh Theological Seminary
Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary
My Blog

The heresy of dropping "u" from Saviour. Don't you realise that the Westminster Standards use proper English?

Well, to 'accept Christ' also puts the person in the control seat, does it not. It is saying that we are making the choice whether to accept Him.

When the people heard Peter's sermon and asked 'what shall we do', they were told to "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit".

So, should we not tell people to 'repent and bow before God, asking for His mercy'?

Knowing the best words to use in such circumstances would certainly be most helpful!

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N.L./ www.foundersbaptist.org
Spring, TX

Actually this is a good question. When dealing with someone biblically while talking about God it is always a great thing to use scriptures. Reading Christiana's post really triggered this with me.


There are no verses that say "ask Jesus into your heart".

But we do see verses that tell us to repent. To turn from sin and run to righteousness. Things of that nature.

The problem with me is that not everything sticks to memory. If someone could help me out and point out similar key verses I would be ever grateful!

Basically (to further expound on my thoughts) I see that there is that zone where people seem to get certain things but dont know what to do next. Usually based on their lack of knowledge of scripture. I think additional verses would be key.

(sorry if this doesnt make sense. I sometimes have a hard time wording what i am thinking. Even after taking time)

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Brian E
Attending Christ Reformed Baptist Church
Milwaukee, WI

This is exactly what I meant to be asking. Supposing my friends are convinced of their sinful natures and want to come to God for mercy. Supposing they ask me, "How do I go about this?" It would be helpful to know what words to suggest that they use in prayer.

Considering that He knows our thoughts and intents of our heart before we even speak, I would suggest to the person who wants to determine his salvation that they pray from their heart, exactly what it is that they desire, their awareness of being a sinner in need of a Saviour and being very much desirous of belonging to Jesus Christ, their Lord and Saviour forever, in this life and the next!

The words given to someone to say seem to be less compelling than the words and desires from their very own heart. It doesnt have to be long. Actually brevity is a significant factor in many biblical prayers! The important part is that the person knows they have entered a new life and will be watching for a changed nature, one that now lives for their Saviour, rather than primarily for theirself! Assure this new regenerate of your prayers for their strength as difficulties and challenges arise, which are sure to come! 'All who would live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted!"

Who and what are we truly willing to die for, and why? Soli deo gloria!

"Receive and rest upon Christ alone, as he is offered in the gospel."

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~Jay~
Husband of ENS, father of J II. | Indian Trail, NC
Teacher Aide, Union County Public Schools, NC
Communicant Member, Precentor | Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte, NC | Presbyterian Reformed Church

If you say, "Ask Jesus into heart", they might not know what you are talking about. It sounds vague.

It would be better to say, "Repent and believe in Jesus" or "Repent and rely on Jesus alone for your salvation from sin.".

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Curt Hayashida
member, Community Bible Church (Non-denominational)
Vallejo, CA

Tell them that Jesus is Lord, "Get down on your knees and confess his kingship."

Politely, though.

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J. B. Atken
John Knox PCA
Layman, M.A. student at Louisiana College

Thanks, I like this. The body position says something profound. I'm afraid that theological jargon will pass them by whereas what you propose won't.

Jesus Christ had a clear answer to all who asked ,

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Well the answer to this question in truth is that one must do the Law and fullfill its righteous requirements. Well we know that the young man left Jesus Christ empty handed.



The Gospel of Jesus Christ is truth and its apologetics founded on truth.


Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Rom 3:13 Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips:

Rom 3:14 Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness:

Rom 3:15 Their feet [are] swift to shed blood:

Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery [are] in their ways:

Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:

Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.


I dont know how this fits with your apologetics but Paul Speaking by the Holy Spirit was adamant that There are no human beings seriously seeking truth but rather all their throats are an open grave speaking lies. In my summation.

The evidence here is starkly clear, How is any humanist seeking God I want to inquire ?

Everything about and from a human being is evil completely. God is Righteous Holy and True Eternally. Nothing short of his Glory will do. Its an impossible task.

Is there a human of his own that ever did repent ?

Yes Truely a man must Repent. Turn away from evil 100%
How can it be we are sinners by nature wholey corrupt. But God demands Repentance !00% from a sincere heart. How can it be our hearts are totally evil, its impossible.


Mic 7:2 The good [man] is perished out of the earth: and [there is] none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.


Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Now if Jesus Christ who is God says that a corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit, How can the offspring of Adam who is a corrupt tree yeild good fruit humans.

Sing it with me " ITS IMPOSSIBLE"

Therefore the answer lies in the Gospel, good tidings how God himself took it upon himself flesh so as he is a Good fruit able to do and seek truth as a substitute for sinful humanity.

You see the Gospel must be preached on the foundation of truth. Once you have humans seeking truth then we dont need a saviour which is a lie.

What is impossible for a human is not with God.

So Jesus Christ is our substitution even in repentance. He acepted Baptism yet he was without sin to fullfill the Righteous demands of repenting which of ourselves we cannot do. Then He inhabits us by his Will and causes us to seek, pray, repent believe.

Salvation is of the Lord exclusively. We are receipients being made aware of the Truth, REVELATION. VESSELS OF HONOUR

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Andrew DeShazo, Deacon, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Memphis, TN
"All of us stumble in many ways, but if anyone is never at fault in what he says, then he is mature, able to control his whole body."(James 3:2)

Leslie, I would bring up baptism. Perhaps you could say something like this:

"You are saved the moment that you turn from your sin and your own way to believe in Jesus as your Savior and God. Now, that is invisible; I cannot see the moment you believe. However, God commands everyone who believes to be baptized. [Perhaps some more explanation on baptism] I want you to let me know when you want to be baptized."

The greatest difficulty in personal evangelism is what to do "at the end." After explaining the gospel and making sure they understand it, you issue a call to belief. What is the positive response to that? Well, belief. But I think we tend to want some sort of "signal" that belief occurred. That's why in broadly evangelical circles you see things like scripted sinners prayers, spiritual birth certificates in the back of tracts, etc. But baptism is a divine command and accompanied the call to salvation. The Ethiopian eunuch understood this and suggested it himself. I doubt your friends are theologically savvy enough to figure that out on their own, but you could suggest it.

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Charlie Johnson
Heritage Bible Church (non-denom)
Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary, student

This makes a lot of sense to me but there are logistical problems. The guy was baptized Catholic and his wife was baptized Lutheran. They live in extreme SE Germany, near the Austrian border. There are NO evangelical churches in the area. There is one Protestant church, attended by 6 old ladies and pastored by a guy who is still spouting the ecumenical mantras he learned in seminary in the 1960's.

What do you say to them when they say that they were already baptized as infants? I lean toward credo anyway but don't want to offend them by saying that their infant sprinkling was meaningless. The second logistical problem is who will baptize them. I'm the only believer that they know and although I'm not as radically anti-feminist as some on the board, I'm not a female chauvinist sow, either. I really couldn't even think of doing it. I've tried mightily to connect with an evangelical person or church in the area, even a couple hours away, with no success whatsoever.

In a more encouraging vein, the guy (alone) will be in Ethiopia for 3 weeks in June. I'm trying to set up a dinner engagement between him and a Calvinistic professor at a theological seminary in Addis Ababa. If this goes through and if he makes a commitment then and there, the problem is solved--there's a pool at the church. However, he's still so far from the kingdom of God that I think it unlikely that he'll be ready to make the plunge that soon.

When a person asks what he must do the key is to never go beyond what scripture says. Obviously this rule discards, "Accept him into your heart".

Go to your favorite Bible site and do a search for the phrase "have mercy". This brings up the Canaanite woman, the father of the epileptic, the two men born blind, the tax collector in the back of the temple and many more.

The exciting thing in all of these passages is that Jesus quickly responds to the cry of mercy. Now of course there is no formula involved but what we do see happening is this:

These people have all been quickened by the Spirit and have seen there deep need for Christ. They all address him as Lord, recognizing that he has the cure to their utter ruin. Out of their need and hopelessness they cry out, "Lord, have mercy on me." That is the faith that saves.

After speaking to people of our utter ruin and helplessness I then direct them to 'cry out to God for mercy'. The need is from the Spirit, the cry is from the soul as spirit cries out to Spirit. For this reason, Jesus will answer the cry for mercy - it is not an act of selfishness, it is not an act of the will, it is a 'falling upon' the truth of the Gospel and a confession of final hope in Christ alone.

This brings to mind the words of John Newton:

Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
and grace my fears relieved,
How precious did that grace appear,
the hour I first believed.

__________________
Bob Vigneault (Bawb Vēēn-yo)
I just know there's got to be a pony in here somewhere!

The Heartbeat of Heaven (blog) MySpace (Music), MySpace (Personal)
Member of Christ Presbyterian Church, Janesville, WI OPC www.christ-opc.org

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"Lord, I turn from all saviors but you to deliver me from my sin and from God's wrath, and I trust in your promise that you will not cast me out if I come to you for such. I trust that my sins were counted as yours on the cross, and that your righteousness is counted as mine before the Father. Lord, I believe, help my unbelief."

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Charles Plauger
Member/Grace Reformed Church
Oakland, MD