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View Poll Results: What Does Your Church Serve With The Lord's Supper? | |
Wine
|     | 26 | 29.55% | |
Grape Juice
|    | 30 | 34.09% | |
Both Wine and Grape Juice
|    | 30 | 34.09% | |
Other (grapefruit juice, 7-Up, water)
|    | 2 | 2.27% |
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05-30-2008, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by etexas  Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK Quote:
Originally Posted by ReformedSinner I see many here favors wine and would rather switch to wine. However, do you guys also realizd wine in Jesus' time is heavily diluted with water? Many scholars guessed it's even less alcoholic than beer. (Which many historians now said to be intoxicated one needs to be drinking for many days straight, which is not that uncommon for back then feasts generally lasts 5-10 days.)
Just found this fact interesting because the pro-wine folks like to jest on the "grape juice" folks, but at the end both of them are, well, off the mark. | Can you cite some of these sources? Dr. Gentry says just the opposite in his book "God Gave Wine". Quote:
Originally Posted by etexas Even Orthodox Jews now make exceptions on Holy Days in regard to wine, those who are able to drink wine do so, if a family has a member with a liver disease, auto-immune disorder or have had a drinking problem, Kosher grape juice is permitted to them. To be frank, I am unsure of why we as Christians cannot use this wisdom. Look, I have NO beef with those who wish to use wine as a part of the blessed sacrament, I just do not "get" the fact that some (not saying all) are so bound and determined that you would rather those of us who have medical problems or other issues drink wine, it "comes across" as if, "I don't truly care if it hurts you! My understanding of the Lord's Supper works like this, so there." Look, I am not being hateful or sarcastic, it just comes across this way at times. I think it says something when the Orthodox Jews have an understanding of the issue and have the compassion to make exceptions where they are needed, and we as Christians cannot. Not sure what it says about us. Grace and Peace in His Holy and Blessed Name. | Who are the 'some' to whom you are referring? I have not noticed any such comments. | Does it matter? | Yes, Brother, it does. Now, I'm not saying there's no room whatsoever for any kind of discussion; however, the Scriptures say Bread & Wine, not something else. I would ask that if this is a source of contention that will influence you to react defensively, you may want to stay away from the thread, or give several minutes of thought before posting a response. I mean that with the utmost sincerity and Christian charity.
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05-30-2008, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by joshua Quote:
Originally Posted by etexas Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK
Can you cite some of these sources? Dr. Gentry says just the opposite in his book "God Gave Wine".
Who are the 'some' to whom you are referring? I have not noticed any such comments.
| Does it matter? | Yes, Brother, it does. Now, I'm not saying there's no room whatsoever for any kind of discussion; however, the Scriptures say Bread & Wine, not something else. I would ask that if this is a source of contention that will influence you to react defensively, you may want to stay away from the thread, or give several minutes of thought before posting a response. I mean that with the utmost sincerity and Christian charity. | I see no grounds for any objection to my Post. It was written in a calm thoughtful and sober manner. On what grounds are you objecting Josh? I sent a PM.
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Last edited by etexas; 05-30-2008 at 08:59 AM.
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05-30-2008, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by etexas Quote:
Originally Posted by joshua Quote:
Originally Posted by etexas Does it matter? | Yes, Brother, it does. Now, I'm not saying there's no room whatsoever for any kind of discussion; however, the Scriptures say Bread & Wine, not something else. I would ask that if this is a source of contention that will influence you to react defensively, you may want to stay away from the thread, or give several minutes of thought before posting a response. I mean that with the utmost sincerity and Christian charity. | I see no grounds for any objection to my Post. It was written in a calm thoughtful and sober manner. On what grounds are you objecting Josh? I sent a PM. | Now, Max, I didn't object to your post. I didn't even imply that. I simply gave out a caution for future reference. That's all. 
There was nothing wrong with your post, Brother (insofar as manner or etiquette goes).  |
05-30-2008, 09:54 AM
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I chose the wine only on accident. My church does the small cups with wine and a ring of juice on the inside. I would say that maybe 5% of the church takes juice.
__________________ Travis Graham | Member | Christ The King (PCA) | Houston, TX "The world will bow,
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05-30-2008, 10:05 AM
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I have a question for those who use both wine and juice.
Do you believe that those who drink the juice are somehow getting less of the sacrament than those who drink the wine? If not, why not simply use juice instead of wine for the conscience of those who don't drink wine?
Also, why not use non-alcoholic wine instead of juice?
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05-30-2008, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by joshua Quote:
Originally Posted by etexas Quote:
Originally Posted by joshua Yes, Brother, it does. Now, I'm not saying there's no room whatsoever for any kind of discussion; however, the Scriptures say Bread & Wine, not something else. I would ask that if this is a source of contention that will influence you to react defensively, you may want to stay away from the thread, or give several minutes of thought before posting a response. I mean that with the utmost sincerity and Christian charity. | I see no grounds for any objection to my Post. It was written in a calm thoughtful and sober manner. On what grounds are you objecting Josh? I sent a PM. | Now, Max, I didn't object to your post. I didn't even imply that. I simply gave out a caution for future reference. That's all.
There was nothing wrong with your post, Brother (insofar as manner or etiquette goes). | Hear that people! Josh said I have GOOD manners! I am going to run this off and frame it! 
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05-30-2008, 10:53 AM
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MOM! There's peace in the family again!! How am I going to look good when my brothers are getting along?
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05-30-2008, 10:55 AM
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My church uses wine AND they're all Baptists!
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05-30-2008, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Grymir MOM! There's peace in the family again!! How am I going to look good when my brothers are getting along? | Lets find a new member and pick on them (the PB Bullies) THAT should balance our universe out again! 
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05-31-2008, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by joshua Quote:
Originally Posted by etexas Quote:
Originally Posted by KMK
Can you cite some of these sources? Dr. Gentry says just the opposite in his book "God Gave Wine".
Who are the 'some' to whom you are referring? I have not noticed any such comments.
| Does it matter? | Yes, Brother, it does. Now, I'm not saying there's no room whatsoever for any kind of discussion; however, the Scriptures say Bread & Wine, not something else. I would ask that if this is a source of contention that will influence you to react defensively, you may want to stay away from the thread, or give several minutes of thought before posting a response. I mean that with the utmost sincerity and Christian charity. | Yes it is open to discussion. It is odd you singled me out, I gave a sober well reasoned answer. But, hey, Josh does not agree therefore I am wrong! Josh of course is never wrong. SECOND: Josh jumped down my throat about my post where I state "Does it matter?" HE READ IT OUT OF CONTEXT! When I said "Does it matter?" I was NOT speaking about the Sacraments! I was refusing to name names of those who did not agree with me! I was trying to keep t from dropping to a personal level. Josh, given that you took me out of context, and then said that I have nothing worthwhile to say, therefore say nothing. Honestly was singled out for this humiliation. Josh. I feel you should delete your Post on this and make an open apology to me. Pax
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05-31-2008, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Gage Browning We serve both: grape-juice for reasons of conscience or substance abuse issues and wine.
Wine in the middle of the tray- also a little different color... | Our session tried that approach about a year ago, and some people threatened to leave over even having the option of drinking wine allowed to others, and so they relented and went back to grape-juice only.
I think the ones who threatened to leave over that have now found some other excuse to leave that we apparently didn't accommodate them fast enough on, so we are now, apparently, blessed by their absence. 
We have often stumbled over trying to keep the weaker brother from stumbling. But, of course, never became stumbling-drunk over it.
Pardon me if I'm having too much fun with this.  |
05-31-2008, 11:26 AM
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When I posted my prior post at 9:56, I had not read the prior one of 9:26, and didn't realize people were getting offended.
So when I was , it wasn't over that. Sorry if I've added offense to offense.   |
05-31-2008, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by larryjf I have a question for those who use both wine and juice.
Do you believe that those who drink the juice are somehow getting less of the sacrament than those who drink the wine? If not, why not simply use juice instead of wine for the conscience of those who don't drink wine?
Also, why not use non-alcoholic wine instead of juice? | Related to my post above, aren't we all to partake of the "same" cup?
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05-31-2008, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by larryjf Related to my post above, aren't we all to partake of the "same" cup? | The last time I partook of communion in a "common-cup" service, a young person ahead of me in line sneezed just as he was about to drink.
The minister had a napkin he was wiping the cup with after every drink, but the napkin was not enough for the sneeze.
My conscience was overcome. I could not continue.  |
05-31-2008, 07:34 PM
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I can. Alcohol actually reduces your glucose level. So wine is good for diabetics!
| Believe me brother, I agree. I can't understand why on earth we don't have wine and juice, if there are those who get bent out of shape about the alcohol. But juice and water? I just don't get it. (It may be that the few diabetics are also alcoholics/teetotalers, not sure.)
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05-31-2008, 07:44 PM
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My conscience was overcome. I could not continue.
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05-31-2008, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by etexas Look, I have NO beef with those who wish to use wine as a part of the blessed sacrament, I just do not "get" the fact that some (not saying all) are so bound and determined that you would rather those of us who have medical problems or other issues drink wine, it "comes across" as if, "I don't truly care if it hurts you! My understanding of the Lord's Supper works like this, so there." Look, I am not being hateful or sarcastic, it just comes across this way at times. | Quote:
Originally Posted by etexas Quote:
Originally Posted by joshua Quote:
Originally Posted by etexas Does it matter? | Yes, Brother, it does. Now, I'm not saying there's no room whatsoever for any kind of discussion; however, the Scriptures say Bread & Wine, not something else. I would ask that if this is a source of contention that will influence you to react defensively, you may want to stay away from the thread, or give several minutes of thought before posting a response. I mean that with the utmost sincerity and Christian charity. | Yes it is open to discussion. It is odd you singled me out, I gave a sober well reasoned answer. But, hey, Josh does not agree therefore I am wrong! Josh of course is never wrong. SECOND: Josh jumped down my throat about my post where I state "Does it matter?" HE READ IT OUT OF CONTEXT! When I said "Does it matter?" I was NOT speaking about the Sacraments! I was refusing to name names of those who did not agree with me! I was trying to keep t from dropping to a personal level. Josh, given that you took me out of context, and then said that I have nothing worthwhile to say, therefore say nothing. Honestly was singled out for this humiliation. Josh. I feel you should delete your Post on this and make an open apology to me. Pax | If I may speak on behalf of Joshua, I think what he meant was, if you are going to accuse some of us of an apathetic attitude toward those, like yourself, who "have medical problems or other issues", then you better tell us who we are. Quote:
Lev 19:17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
Pro 27:5 Open rebuke [is] better than secret love.
| It certainly was not my intention of hurting your feelings, brother.
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05-31-2008, 09:19 PM
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Most in my Church are Teetotalers so we use grape juice, though I would prefer wine. We are baptists though and as has been pointed out on other threads Baptists have weird ideas about alcohol.
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05-31-2008, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by KMK The temperance movement brought us Dr. Welch. Dr. Welch brought us grape juice. If there had been no temperance movement there would be no grape juice. In that regard, the only reason people would insist on grape juice is because of the temperance movement. I don't think anyone began to object with 'sensitive consciences' until the existence of grape juice. I could be wrong, however. | Only Welch's Grape Juice in our church and all Baptist churches I've been a member of for last 10 years. When I was PCA, they served both grape juice and red wine.
Anybody know why church's don't serve white wine? (At least, I haven't seen any.)
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