Staying alert during the worship service - Page 2

Barnpreacher · #41 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 10:42 PM

Edited last post because I didn't think I was very edifying in what I said.

Blessings!

Puddleglum · #42 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:06 PM

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Originally Posted by Barnpreacher

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Originally Posted by Puddleglum

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Originally Posted by Barnpreacher

While I appreciate your sentiments and understand what you're saying, my question would be if someone couldn't sleep that night because they were dealing with an issue then why would it be so easy to sleep in the Lord's house the next day?

Maybe because "dealing with it" involved having lengthy conversations with people that cut into what normally would have been one's sleeping hours.

Maybe because they actually feel safe at church (which they don't elsewhere), and so could actually sleep (not the most spiritual reason, but a real one . . .)

etc.

Maybe we just look for excuses to justify sleeping on the Lord's Day in His house.

I don't think I've explained myself very well. I'll give it one more shot and then bow out.

I'm NOT saying that sleeping in church is a good thing. I think it's a good thing to try to "set yourself up for success" - take notes, drink coffee, try to go to bed at a reasonable hour, etc.
But - I am saying that sometimes God sovereignly puts people in situations which makes it difficult for them to stay awake in church, even if they want to. And I'm asking you not to jump to conclusions about a persons situation - maybe they really are going to the 2230 showing of the newest movie every Saturday evening and then going out for coffee afterwards just because they want to and thus are having trouble staying awake in church. But you don't know that unless a person tells you that. But - it could be that that person just got off work, and the church service is in the normal sleeping hours. But they desire to worship God with His people on His day so they try to come and stay awake even though it's a battle. Or it could be a whole host of things. And I'd like to encourage you to, instead of just saying "you're wrong" (and maybe I'm mis-interpreting you and that's not what you're trying to say - in that case, I'm sorry), to come alongside your brothers and sisters and encourage them - yes, rebuke when necessary, but maybe what they need is not a change in attitude, but prayer for a change in circumstances.
Ok, that's enough for me on this one.

Puddleglum · #43 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:08 PM

Barnpreacher - sorry, I hadn't finished reading the thread before I wrote all that. I think I understand what you're saying better now. :shakehands:

Barnpreacher · #44 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:34 PM

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Originally Posted by Puddleglum

Barnpreacher - sorry, I hadn't finished reading the thread before I wrote all that. I think I understand what you're saying better now. :shakehands:

No problem, Jessica. Thanks for reading all my posts to get a better idea of what I was trying to say. My main concern is those that want to sleep in church and then blame it on a "boring preacher." I fully understand circumstances that cause sleepiness in church (work hours, sickness, baby keeping one up all night etc.). I deal with those all the time in the ministry and I try to have tremendous compassion towards those dear saints of God that are battling in this area. It's those that just want to blame a preacher for putting them to sleep that bother me, especially when they may have had the choice to make better Lord's day preparation on Saturday and chose not to.

Great quote by Cowper in your signature.

Barnpreacher · #45 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:37 PM

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Originally Posted by Puddleglum

I don't think I've explained myself very well.

Don't feel too badly about that, I never seem to explain myself very well when it comes to conversing on this board. I think I may be one of the top five misunderstood posters on this board because of my inability to express what I want to say through a forum. Thank God we don't have forum churches or I'd be out of the ministry.

Rev. Todd Ruddell · #46 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007, 01:00 AM

It seems to me that there are various reasons for people struggling with dozing during the Worship Service, and not all of them have to do with a lack of preparation for the Lord's day. Some simply have trouble sitting, listening, for that long without some dozing-off episodes--for some, it would not matter if they were watching the television, a sporting contest, etc.

I encourage our congregation, if they're having trouble staying awake, to stand near the back of the sanctuary, where it will be easier to stay alert--and I am careful to say that this is not a shameful thing--to sit and doze is worse than to stand alert. We have particulary lengthy services--sometimes 2.5 hours or longer. The worship service is a place where there's great work to be done, and it's worth the effort.

So, I encourage our congregation to prepare, get good rest, have a little protein in the morning, not sugar, a little coffee if they're so inclined. Do what one can to stay alert, and for my part, I try to put the best construction on the state and preparation of those who are "fighting it". It's the ones who have "given up" that need the instruction the most. However, most do continue their efforts at being alert--and if you offer them the option of standing in the rear of the sanctuary, many have found that to be very helpful.

Iconoclast · #47 (**permalink**) 10-25-2007, 01:53 AM

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Originally Posted by Barnpreacher

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Originally Posted by Puddleglum

I don't think I've explained myself very well.

Don't feel too badly about that, I never seem to explain myself very well when it comes to conversing on this board. I think I may be one of the top five misunderstood posters on this board because of my inability to express what I want to say through a forum. Thank God we don't have forum churches or I'd be out of the ministry.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to this post,as well as all the other's who have interacted with it. I think most everyone in here[PB] takes the instruction to "take heed how you hear" very seriously. Sometimes the area of sanctification has many deep veins that are presented in the scriptures for us.
Certainly it points out our need of prayer in our daily walk,and even especially when we are to come together to worship. I see our worship as blending in with the worship described in Revelation 4-5, even if we only know in part and sometimes what we offer is not as pure as our heart would like it to be.
I read where some of the puritans considered people who would sleep during the sermon as a sign of reprobation. Maybe Don Kistler would know more about that.
Perhaps as one suggested bringing up this area in a private way, or just having open an honest discussions about what is the proper attitude to bring in worship,if we would see the blessing of God in our assemblies is a way to address this issue.
Each one of us has certain expectations of what we desire in preaching. Unless the Spirit is blessing it ,[whether it is quiet and methodical, or very animated] it will not profit.
I have heard of some ,even on sermon audio who kind of scream,and gasp for breath thinking that it is preaching ,or "the annointing" [ there is a father and son on sermonaudio]. I doubt that anyone sleeps there, but I am pretty sure that no one understands those emotional kind of out -bursts, because you cannot even understand the words spoken.
The seeker sensitive churches just add to the confusion. Spurgeon once mentioned in a sermon the verse in 1Pet where angels "desire to look into the things of salvation". He spoke of them perhaps observing us as we prepare to assemble with the local body. I might have to look this sermon up tonight and re-read it.

py3ak · #48 (**permalink**) 10-26-2007, 11:29 PM

I suspect there are people who could sleep or be distracted through the best of preachers: and I suspect that there are preachers who could put a hyperactive person to sleep in the middle of their mountain dew. Just as every preacher who thinks that the message of Scripture is worth announcing will make an effort to be audible and intelligible, so he will make an effort as well to be engaging and interesting. And every congregant who believes that God has given pastors and teachers to the church will make an effort to listen and stay awake, unless past experience has discouraged him with some particular preacher. Of course, all of these efforts all around may be abysmal failures.

VirginiaHuguenot · #49 (**permalink**) 10-27-2007, 09:26 AM

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Originally Posted by toddpedlar

Check out "Remedy for Wandering Thoughts in Worship" by Richard Steele. It's a great, if brief, treatment of the subject. Take this with Burroughs's "Gospel Worship" and you'll find plenty of encouragement to stay awake

Here's a portion from Steele (pp. 72-73) on this subject which is good Saturday reading:

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SECT. III.

Unpreparedness.

The third cause of distractions in the service of God is, unpreparedness to it. "If thou prepare thine heart, and stretch out thine hands to him; if iniquity be in thine hand, put it far away; then shalt thou be stedfast." -- Job, xi.13. First prepare the heart, then stretch out the hands. He that keeps not his foot when he goes into the house or service of God, is very likely to stumble, and to offer but the sacrifice of fools. He that is unfitted for any work, must needs be unfixed in it.* As holy Mr. Dod used to say of afflictions, "When we are prepared for them, they are like a sword that only strikes upon our armour; but when we are unprepared, they are like a sword striking our bare skin." Even so, when the heart is well fixed and prepared for the Lord's service, an impertinent thought or suggestion falls on our armour, but when we come unprepared, it meets with our very hearts, and runs away with them. If a man come into a prince's presence undressed, or without his band, you may easily imagine how, when he is aware of the feathers or dirt that is about him, he is distracted; so is the soul wofully carried off when approaching to God; the follies of sin and vanities of the world disfigure and divert it from a close converse with him; and therefore a serious Christian doth not only pray, and watch in prayer, but watcheth unto prayer. We so eat our meat, says Tertullian, of the primitive Christians, as remembering we must pray before we go to bed.

* Hence, David; Psalm lvii.7, 8; so Deborah, Judges, v. 12.

clstamper · #50 (**permalink**) 10-27-2007, 05:45 PM

Bring a PDA. Sit in the back row. Play sudoku.

cwjudyjr · #51 (**permalink**) 10-27-2007, 06:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Iconoclast

Has anyone looked around from time to time during a sermon,and noticed some people nodding out,or actually sleeping during a sermon? Does this seem strange to you? It is possible that someone might be on medication, or elderly and infirmed that this could happen.However if not for a special physical infirmity is this a cause for some type of intervention? Should it be left to the pastor to mention from the pulpit;ie, proper preparation to hear a sermon. Or how to make preparation the night before to get enough rest in sleep to come in worship alert ,and expecting the blessing of God.
I mostly am concerned to hear what the sermon has to say to me personally,so I have learned not to focus on these kind of disruptions/distractions. Some times I am not sure if I should approach a member with this concern,but it seems a strange idea to bring up .
I saw an illustration in a book about the puritans, that the men in the church would have long poles that they would use to nudge one of these sleepers. Any thoughts on this?

How have you dealt with this in times past, or has it not been an issue where you are?

I have to say that if I am looking and pondering others nodding off or doing whatever during worship, then I am not focused on the sermon and worship myself. Then the log is in my eye even though I am awake.

There may be many reasons someone has trouble focusing. I agree with the earlier post (JohnOwen007) that using Matt 18 as our standard for appoaching another, or for being approached myself when needed, is the way to handle any situation such as this. Then we are not looking at others and wondering, diverted ourselves, but finding the cause and helping them as needed.

Conrad

calgal · #52 (**permalink**) 10-27-2007, 09:56 PM

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Originally Posted by clstamper

Bring a PDA. Sit in the back row. Play sudoku.

Unless a person knows every single life story AND medical history of every member of their church, making assumptions about a person's Sunday slumber would fall under gossip.

Joshua · #53 (**permalink**) 10-27-2007, 10:40 PM

This does not directly relate to the OP, but I thought still worth mentioning this Lord's Day eve. It's actually directed toward Young Ladies, but think it applies to all.

by Harvey Newcomb

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PUBLIC WORSHIP

PRACTICAL HINTS IN RELATION TO PUBLIC WORSHIP.

1. Attend on the stated ministrations of your pastor. If there is more than one church professing your own sentiments in the place where you reside, select the pastor who is most spiritual, and will give you the best instruction. But, when you have made this selection, consider yourself bound to wait on his ministry. Do not indulge yourself in going from place to place, to hear this and that minister. This will give you "itching ears," and cultivate a love of novelty, and a critical mode of hearing, very unfavorable to the practical application of the truth to your own soul. If you wish to obtain complete views of truth—if you wish your soul to thrive—attend, as far as possible, upon every appointment of your pastor. Ministers generally adopt some plan of instruction, which they believe to be adapted to the state of their people, and frequently pursue a chain of subjects in succession, so as to present a complete view of the great doctrines of the Bible. Whenever you absent yourself, you break this chain, and lose much of your interest and profit in your minister's preaching. I do not say but, on special occasions, when some subject of more than usual importance is to be presented at another place, it may be proper for you to leave your own church. But, in general, the frequent exchange of pulpits between neighboring ministers, and the occasional appearance of a stranger in the pulpit, will furnish as great variety as you will find profitable.

2. Be punctual in attending at the stated hour of public worship. This, though of great importance, is sadly neglected by many congregations. Punctuality is so necessary in matters of business, that a man is hardly considered honest when he fails to meet his friend at the hour of engagement. And why should it be thought of less consequence to be exact and punctual in our engagements with God than with man? The person who enters the house of God after the service has commenced, embarrasses the preacher, and disturbs the devotions of others. Besides, he shows great lack of reverence for the sacredness of the place, time, and employment. "God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of his saints, and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him." Always calculate to be seated in the sanctuary a few minutes before the time appointed for the commencement of worship; that you may have time to settle your mind, and to lift your soul in silent prayer to God for his blessing.

3. Go to the house of God with a preparation of heart. First visit your closet, and implore the influences of the Holy Spirit, both upon yourself and your fellow-worshipers, that your and their hearts may be prepared to receive the truth; and, if possible, go immediately from your closet to the house of worship. On the way, shut out all thoughts except such as are calculated to inspire devotional feelings; and, if in company, avoid conversation. Whatever may be the nature of such conversation, it will be very likely to produce a train of thought which will distract and disturb your mind during public worship.

4. When you approach the house of worship, remember that the Lord is there in a peculiar manner. He has promised to be where two or three shall meet in his name. It is in the assembly of his saints that he makes known the power of his Spirit. As you enter his house, endeavor to realize the solemnity of his presence, and walk softly before him. Avoid carelessness of demeanor, and let your deportment indicate the reverence due to the place where "God's honor dwells." "Guard your feet when you go to the house of God." I do not like to specify any particular acts which are unbecoming in the house of God, lest I should seem to imply that a young lady may be guilty of a public breach of the rules of good breeding; but, if you bear in mind continually that you are a guest in the house of the Lord, and that the Lord almighty is there to witness all you do, you will be likely to be serious and circumspect.

When seated in the place of worship, set a watch over the senses, that your eyes and ears may not cause your mind to wander upon forbidden objects. There is great danger that the attraction of people, characters, and dress, may dissipate the serious thoughts with which you entered the sanctuary, so that you will lose the benefit of the means of grace. Set a watch, also, over your imagination. This is a time when Satan is peculiarly busy in diverting the fancy; and, unless you are doubly watchful, he may lead away your mind by some phantom of the imagination, before you are aware of it. Keep these avenues of temptation guarded, and seek to bring yourself into a prayerful frame of mind, that you may be suitably affected by the various exercises of public worship.

5. Unite in spirit with the devotional part of the service. "God is a Spirit; and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth." Sing with the spirit and with the understanding, and see that you do not mock God with an empty song of praise, which finds no response in your heart. Endeavor, also, in prayer, to follow the words of the person who leads, applying the several parts of the prayer to yourself in particular, when they suit your case, and yet bearing in mind the various subjects of petition which relate to the congregation and the world; remembering that God abhors hypocritical worship, in which men appear outwardly as worshipers, but have no spiritual apprehension of the meaning of the solemn service in which they are engaged. In all the exercises of public worship, labor and strive against wandering thoughts. This is the time when Satan will beset you with all his fury. Now you must be well armed, and fight manfully. Be not discouraged, though you may be many times foiled. If you persevere in the strength of Jesus, you will come off conqueror at last.

6. "Take heed how you hear." Consider the speaker as the ambassador of Christ, sent with a message from God to yourself. "Now, then," says the apostle, "we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we beg you, in Christ's stead, be you reconciled to God." The figure here used is borrowed from the practice of one government sending a person on a particular errand to another. The analogy, however, does not hold good throughout. It is like a sovereign sending an ambassador to persuade rebels against his government to submit to him, and accept of pardon. But, in such a case, it would be possible, either for some person who was not sent, to deliver a false message in the name of the king, or for one who was really sent, to deliver a different message from the one sent by him. So it is in relation to preachers of the gospel. There are many whom Christ has never sent, who are spreading abroad lies over the land; and there are others, really sent by Christ, who have, in some respects, misapprehended their instructions, and therefore do not deliver his message just as he has directed. But our blessed Lord, foreseeing this, has wisely and kindly given us a check-book, by which we may discover whether those who speak in his name tell the truth. Hence we are commanded to "search the Scriptures," and to "test the spirits, whether they be of God." And the Bereans were commended as more noble, because they searched the Scriptures daily, to know whether the things preached by the apostles were so. If, then, they were applauded for testing the preaching of the apostles by the word of God, surely we may try the preaching of uninspired men by the same standard.

But beware of a fault finding spirit. There are some people who indulge such a habit of finding fault with preaching, that they never receive much benefit from it. Either the matter of the sermon, the apparent feeling of the preacher, or his style, or manner of delivery, does not suit them; and therefore they throw away all the good they might have obtained from his discourse. Remember that preachers of the gospel are but men. So weak are they, that the apostle compares them to "earthen vessels." Do not, then, expect perfection. Bear with their infirmities. Receive their instructions as the bread which your heavenly Father has provided for the nourishment of your soul. Do not ungratefully spurn it from you. What would you think to see a child throwing away the bread his mother gives him, because it does not suit his dainty appetite?

But the instruction delivered to you by the ministers of Christ, if it agrees with the word of God, is the bread which your heavenly Father has provided as the food of your soul. It may not suit your taste. It may not be savory enough. It may be coarse food. It may not have any such dressings as render it palatable to a capricious appetite. Or it may be, in your estimation, too strong meat. Still it is the food which God has provided for your soul; and you will suffer incalculable loss, if you are so dainty as to throw it away. But, if there appears really to be a deficiency in your minister's preaching, pray for him, that he may preach better. See to it, however, that the fault be not with yourself, in not keeping your heart in such a state as to be able to appreciate good preaching. Many sermons, which appeared dry and dull the first time they were delivered, on being repeated in a time of awakening, and heard with a new ear, have been pronounced excellent, and full of instruction.

Hear, also, with self-application. From almost any passage in the Bible the Christian may draw a practical lesson for himself. Some truths may not be immediately applicable to your present circumstances; yet you ought to be affected by them. Even a sermon addressed exclusively to impenitent sinners is calculated to excite the most intense feelings of the Christian's soul. It reminds him of the exceeding wickedness of his past life; it shows him what an awful gulf he has escaped; it leads him to mourn over his ingratitude; and it calls forth his prayers and tears in behalf of the perishing. Strive to bring home the truth, so far as it is applicable to yourself, in the most searching manner. Examine your own heart diligently, that you lose nothing which belongs to you.
Do not hear for others. Let everyone make his own application of the truth. Many are so intent on finding garments for others, that they lose their own.

Hear with a prayerful frame of mind. If any part of the discourse is intended for professors of religion, let your heart continually ascend to God for the Holy Spirit to apply it to yourself and to every Christian present. If any part of it is designed for impenitent people, let your soul put forth an agony of prayer, that it may be blessed for their conversion.

Remember and practice what you hear. We are exhorted to give earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. James tells us, "If any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in the glass; for he beholds himself, and goes his way, and straightway forgets what manner of man he was." Alas, how many thus hear! But, in regard to them, our Savior likens them to a man that built his house upon the sand, which, when the storm came, was swept away with a terrible destruction. How many, who have paid a decent respect to the worship of God, without practicing the self-denying duties inculcated in his word, will find their foundation swept from under them in the terrible storm which is at hand, none can tell. Let us see to it that we are not among the many who will say, in that day, "Lord, Lord," without having obeyed his word; that he should say to us, "Depart from me, you who work iniquity."