Staying alert during the worship service

Iconoclast · #1 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 01:04 AM

Has anyone looked around from time to time during a sermon,and noticed some people nodding out,or actually sleeping during a sermon? Does this seem strange to you? It is possible that someone might be on medication, or elderly and infirmed that this could happen.However if not for a special physical infirmity is this a cause for some type of intervention? Should it be left to the pastor to mention from the pulpit;ie, proper preparation to hear a sermon. Or how to make preparation the night before to get enough rest in sleep to come in worship alert ,and expecting the blessing of God.
I mostly am concerned to hear what the sermon has to say to me personally,so I have learned not to focus on these kind of disruptions/distractions. Some times I am not sure if I should approach a member with this concern,but it seems a strange idea to bring up .
I saw an illustration in a book about the puritans, that the men in the church would have long poles that they would use to nudge one of these sleepers. Any thoughts on this?

How have you dealt with this in times past, or has it not been an issue where you are?

PuritanBouncer · #2 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 01:06 AM

a little twist on this question-how much of the sleeping has to do with the style, or presentation of the speaker?

govols · #3 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 07:08 AM

Man, you get me in a room with comfortable chairs, warm temps and a dull teacher / speaker - It is lights out for me no matter how hard I try.

Thankfully my church has none of the above.

BobVigneault · #4 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 07:36 AM

I agree whole heartedly with John here. After rushing around and getting the kids ready, I settle into the pew, it's warm and comfy and the struggle begins. The last thing I want to do is sleep. My wife nudges me when it happens.

The Bible does give us a solution. We have those prone to nodding off sit in the window on the 3rd story:

Quote:

Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight. 8 There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered. 9 And a young man named Eutychus, sitting at the window, sank into a deep sleep as Paul talked still longer. And being overcome by sleep, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead.

That'll cure one's sermon induced narcolepsy.

kvanlaan · #5 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 07:38 AM

I've heard that in addition to the guys with poles, there was a deacon with a cane up in the gallery where the young bucks sat. There's an idea whose time has come again! (In this age of texting cellphones and the like...)

JohnOwen007 · #6 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houseparent

how much of the sleeping has to do with the style, or presentation of the speaker?

Yes! The preacher must take some responsibility, it can't be entirely upon the listener. One can't be expected to be riveted under incomprehensible or downright boring preaching. The latter is very rude IMHO.

I would suspect it's not a good idea to "prod" people physically and thus make it public. If you think someone is staying up to all hours and therefore clonking off during the sermon regularly, better to do a Matt. 18:25 on him / her and talk to them in private (without letting others know) to check you're right.

Looking at other people's sins is easy for us to do, especially if we have a log in our own eye; it also can easily tempt us to feel superior (Gal. 6:1, 3) which completely undermines the gospel.

kvanlaan · #7 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

The last thing I want to do is sleep.

It's OK Bob, it's scriptural!

Quote:

For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

JM · #8 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 08:21 AM

I think it was Miles Smith, translator and writer of the preface to the AV, once walked out of a boring sermon and went to the pub.

North Jersey Baptist · #9 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 08:26 AM

The key is to fold your hands over your chest to make it look like you are deep in prayerful prose.

Dr Mike Kear · #10 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM

I think it was Miles Smith, translator and writer of the preface to the AV, once walked out of a boring sermon and went to the pub.

Reminds me of Luther: "It is better to think of church in the ale-house than to think of the ale-house in church."

sotzo · #11 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 09:28 AM

I think a worse problem is mind-wandering. I've been guilty of this...where I begin thinking about a work issue, even perhaps what I'm going to have for lunch afterwards....I find myself repenting during the worship service for these things.

One thing that is helpful, IMHO, is for the worship service to be free of frivilous announcements and begun with a very enthusiastic, strong call to worship that sends a message of "putting the cares of the week aside so that we can hear from God and worship Him - to do what we were created to do above all things." Obviously, if there is a prayer need in the congregation or a serious matter that will distract from worship if it is not brought up prior, then announcing that should probably be done. By frivilous announcements I mean details about potluck suppers, where the youth group is headed next week and the dates of an upcoming men's / women's retreat.

Barnpreacher · #12 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 10:56 AM

When you guys talk about boring, are you talking about style or substance? Take a guy like Dr. Beeke for example. His style is very low key, but substance wise you can't beat him. So, if he has sleepers then according to some of you it is partly his fault because his style is low key. I don't agree with that at all. A minister is not up there to entertain. He's up there to preach and teach the word of God. If there are sleepers in the congregation it is likely due to the fact that they are either elderly or they treated Saturday night carelessly and didn't get their proper rest for the Lord's Day the next morning. The latter would be my guess in a lot of instances.

As far as interventions go, I would say that those that sleep during the service would just be put off by an intervention as opposed to helped by it. The reason I say that is because if they are sleeping through the service then more than likely they don't really want to be there anyway (unless they are elderly, medicated). If that's the case an intervention would just make their stay even longer.

cih1355 · #13 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:21 AM

Taking notes when the sermon is given is a good way to stay alert. I sometimes take notes and it helps me to remember what was preached.

Amazing Grace · #14 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:32 AM

My problem is too much coffee in the morning. Everytime the sermon comes around I have to run to get rid of the pot of java.

PuritanBouncer · #15 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnpreacher

When you guys talk about boring, are you talking about style or substance? Take a guy like Dr. Beeke for example. His style is very low key, but substance wise you can't beat him. So, if he has sleepers then according to some of you it is partly his fault because his style is low key. I don't agree with that at all. A minister is not up there to entertain. He's up there to preach and teach the word of God. If there are sleepers in the congregation it is likely due to the fact that they are either elderly or they treated Saturday night carelessly and didn't get their proper rest for the Lord's Day the next morning. The latter would be my guess in a lot of instances.

I disagree

No, it's not a pastor's job to "entertain" but it is his job to hold my attention. Taking public speaking lessons, how you present is at the top of the list! If you've got something important to tell me, then my goodness man act like it's important, speak as thought I MUST get it, I NEED to get, you WANT me to get it. I don't buy into this "style" thing at all. If you're not passionate about that which you're speaking about sit down and let someone present it who is.

Sorry if that sounds harsh.

Puddleglum · #16 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:49 AM

(1) Someone pointed out the problem of letting one's thoughts wander during the sermon. I think that's a good point . . . it's easy to judge people by the appearance (alert v. not-alert) but it's much harder to judge their heart - someone could appear alert but really be rehashing in their head an argument they just had with someone, or planning the next episode of such, or imagining throwing tomatoes at the preacher, or writing next week's to-do list (don't ask me how I know all that stuff . . . :blush

. And someone could appear quite non-alert but really be doing the best that they can to stay awake.

(2) Be careful about approaching people. With my job/hours a lot of time my options are either to go to church really tired or just not go at all. Sometimes I stay home and sleep, sometimes I go and try to stay awake. They may be a student juggling a hard quarter and work and the fact that they had a ton of homework to get done on Friday & Saturday evening on top of a long day of clinical one day and a long day of work the next. (Been there too). So if you felt called to start that conversation, I might open with "hey, you've seemed kind of tired lately - how are you doing?" or something like that.
(And also realize that they may have not been getting sleep because of some crazy icky situation that God called them to deal with that they can't tell you about. Been there too).

(3) My pastor has been known to pause during a Sunday School lesson or sermon and say "if you don't remember anything else, remember what I'm about to say. and if your neighbour is sleeping, now is the time to poke them awake". (I've been both poked and the poke-ee before).

My 3-point 2cents . . .

Barnpreacher · #17 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by houseparent

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnpreacher

When you guys talk about boring, are you talking about style or substance? Take a guy like Dr. Beeke for example. His style is very low key, but substance wise you can't beat him. So, if he has sleepers then according to some of you it is partly his fault because his style is low key. I don't agree with that at all. A minister is not up there to entertain. He's up there to preach and teach the word of God. If there are sleepers in the congregation it is likely due to the fact that they are either elderly or they treated Saturday night carelessly and didn't get their proper rest for the Lord's Day the next morning. The latter would be my guess in a lot of instances.

I disagree

No, it's not a pastor's job to "entertain" but it is his job to hold my attention. Taking public speaking lessons, how you present is at the top of the list! If you've got something important to tell me, then my goodness man act like it's important, speak as thought I MUST get it, I NEED to get, you WANT me to get it. I don't buy into this "style" thing at all. If you're not passionate about that which you're speaking about sit down and let someone present it who is.

Sorry if that sounds harsh.

No, it isn't his job to hold your attention. It's your job to come into the Lord's house on the Lord's Day with a refreshed and rested mind and body, having gotten proper sleep the night before. Style has nothing to do with passion. The passion of a minister is what he has to say to you. Personally, I am a pretty energetic preacher, but that doesn't make me any better than someone who is low-key.

People want to be entertained in the pews today, and that's not what preaching and teaching is all about.

Barnpreacher · #18 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

(And also realize that they may have not been getting sleep because of some crazy icky situation that God called them to deal with that they can't tell you about. Been there too).

While I appreciate your sentiments and understand what you're saying, my question would be if someone couldn't sleep that night because they were dealing with an issue then why would it be so easy to sleep in the Lord's house the next day?

PuritanBouncer · #19 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:54 AM

I still say that what I said is not "entertainment". I could sleep 23 hours and if I go to a service with a boring, slow, methodical preacher I am going to doze off or not be able to focus.

Quote:

The passion of a minister is what he has to say to you.

and imo, how he says it.

PuritanBouncer · #20 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:57 AM

Also, if I may ad this-this idea that the pastor's "style" isn't important and defensiveness in regard to that feeling, is why I could and would never approach a pastor about it. I've been told that I should do that (in love of course) in the past, and I think it's clear why that's next to impossible. "It's my job" to stay with a pastor, alert and sensitive to his preaching no matter how he does it.

Puddleglum · #21 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnpreacher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puddleglum

(And also realize that they may have not been getting sleep because of some crazy icky situation that God called them to deal with that they can't tell you about. Been there too).

While I appreciate your sentiments and understand what you're saying, my question would be if someone couldn't sleep that night because they were dealing with an issue then why would it be so easy to sleep in the Lord's house the next day?

Maybe because "dealing with it" involved having lengthy conversations with people that cut into what normally would have been one's sleeping hours.

Maybe because they actually feel safe at church (which they don't elsewhere), and so could actually sleep (not the most spiritual reason, but a real one . . .)

etc.

victorbravo · #22 (**permalink**) 10-24-2007, 11:59 AM

Well, I think you can be low key and still be riveting. I understand that Jonathan Edwards "Sinners in the hands of and Angry God" sermon was delivered quietly. Perhaps it was more convicting because of the low-key delivery.

As for sleepiness, it is a temptation and a trial, I think. Our pews are not comfortable, but that doesn't matter. Sometimes on the Lord's day the urge for slumber creeps up hard. It has nothing to do with lack of rest or preparation, I get more sleep on Saturday night than I do during the week. I take it to be something of a spiritual affiliction.

That being said, I also take it to be my responsibility to stay awake. Focus is a self-discipline, but a quiet prayer to God for strength and wakefullness is always appropriate. As mentioned, note taking might help. Sitting up straight helps too, at least for me.

As for wacking someone else, I'm not in favor of that unless they start snoring.