I had a wonderful time visiting and worshipping with the folks at Saint Andrews Chapel in Sanford, FL this morning.

I've read some unpleasant things about Dr. Sproul's church in the past on the PB, but I can truly say I was thankful to be a part of their worship service this morning.

__________________
Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls
"But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10

"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton

I hadn't read anything unpleasant about the congregation here but I'm glad you were blessed there.

__________________
Rich
Northern VA
OPC

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I remember reading something about images of Christ and other naked men.

__________________
DAVIDIVS DOCTVS VTRIVSQVE LINGVAE
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Currently in the process of transferring membership to an as-yet-undecided church in Chapel Hill
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

There have been some quite negative things posted here and elsewhere about those in leadership there and with their other ministries, mainly about a year ago IIRC.

I am glad you were blessed by their worship service this morning.

__________________
Chris
OPC member
Now attending Grace Community Baptist Church
Mandeville, LA

"Faith alone saves, but it is a faith that works." - S. Lewis Johnson

Yes we had quite a 'healthy' discussion concerning R.C.'s view on the 2nd commandment about a month ago.

__________________
Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church, Sewickley, PA
Candidate Under Care Pittsburgh Theological Seminary & Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

“If the Church could be aroused to a deeper sense of the glory that awaits her, she would enter with a warmer spirit into the struggles that are before her.”-- J.H. Thornwell

So, what about the décor we've heard about?

__________________
Chris Coldwell, Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Member
• Naphtali Press: Presbyterian & Reformed Books
• The Confessional Presbyterian Journal
• The Blue Banner Archive

The Regulative Principle: Samuel Miller gives a succinct statement of this principle when he writes that since the Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference.”

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We visited this Church six months ago.

Wonderful Church. Thank God for His work there. Met some wonderful people also. God has extraordinarily gifted Dr Sproul. He has been tested and proven faithful through many trials and tribulations and we owe him a debt of gratitude. Also, the "double honor" worthy of those who serve well.

We are very blessed to have particular churches like Saint Andrews Chapel.

In our humble opinion, in line with the Ninth Commandment, Scripture regarding accusations against a teaching elder, and Scripture regarding going privately first to a brother who has offended you...

Get the facts first (not heresay from a blog), and go privately to your brothers with this kind of concern. It may not be what it seems as it is debated on a blog.

Protecting the Second Commadment is important... so is protecting the Ninth Commandment.

Blessings on us all.

__________________
Arlene
PCA
North Carolina
Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.

I'm asking for first hand reports; why is that so difficult to obtain?

__________________
Chris Coldwell, Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Member
• Naphtali Press: Presbyterian & Reformed Books
• The Confessional Presbyterian Journal
• The Blue Banner Archive

The Regulative Principle: Samuel Miller gives a succinct statement of this principle when he writes that since the Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference.”

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Respectfully, Ma'am, R.C.'s teaching on the matter is public, thus rendering him publicly accountable and available for rebuke/admonishment.

__________________
Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC, Attending CCRPC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
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There were images. There were crosses. There was no pornography as it was described on an earlier thread. There was a picture of what looked to be Christ being scourged with a loin cloth wrapped around His thighs, and the prisoners in the background of the picture were dressed the same. I understand this is a point of contention, and it's not something that I like either. However, I also understand that the PCA allows for these images in their churches.

With all due respect, I focused more on the preached Word and the beautiful music than the images.

As far as the friendliness of the church, I received many hello's. I am a quiet guy myself, so I wasn't exactly looking to engage in any conversation.

As an aside, Dr. Sproul talked about their new sanctuary that they have broken ground for. He said that they will be able to house their whole congregation in the new building. He was extremely excited about this new project.

After worshipping in his congregation you'll find no rebukes of Dr. Sproul from this minister.

__________________
Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls
"But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10

"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton

Is his church now PCA?

__________________
Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC, Attending CCRPC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Hi Chris,

Two good friends of mine recently were there during the annual conference. They worshipped at St Andrew's for the first time and were appalled. Apparently you walk in and the first thing you see is a picture of "Jesus." They felt like the service was quasi-Papist, complete with a crucifer leading the way as the choir and clergy processed down the aisle. They were shocked, though, by the preaching. It was Palm Sunday and R.C. preached about the donkey Jesus rode in on, theorizing that it may have been related to a donkey in the manger; he then theorized that animals can think, using his dog as chief example, and then closing the sermon with Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer as another illustration. They showed me their notes because they knew I wouldn't believe it.

Anyways, they left after the conference and worship feeling like the whole thing was a Protestant pilgrimage, complete with spending over $100 for entrance, over $100 for a set of DVD's to watch it again, and endless infomercials to buy tapes, DVD's, etc.

Frankly, it's so hard to obtain first-hand info because people do not want to disparage one of the saints in their pantheon. We get the same thing when Horton preaches or lectures for us and the devotes from all over So Cal come out to pay homage.

__________________
Rev. Daniel R. Hyde
Pastor, Oceanside United Reformed Church, Carlsbad/Oceanside, California
Th.M. candidate, Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary

He preached on Matthew 6:11, Our Daily Bread. He did use illustrations about white bread and how bad it is for us. He also gave an illustration about how when they lived in Holland when his daughter was young her first words she learned was asking the baker for bread. No Rudolph illustrations yesterday.

__________________
Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls
"But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10

"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton

Danny,
Wow! That's truly appalling. I really don't understand Sproul's deal. I've profited so much from his teaching on the basics of Reformed theology, so little from his stuff on worship. His latest book on worship (Taste of Heaven?) was a complete waste of time. At one point in the book, he argued for the use of incense in the corporate worship setting, and had the nasty habit of talking about his love for "high liturgy" without even explaining what "high liturgy" is. Maybe Sproul's love for Luther has concluded in a more Lutheran/Anglican conception of the normative principle?

__________________
Jordan Harris
Dickson City, PA
Faith Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church (ARP)
My Blog

Sounds like a rampaging case of respect of persons.

__________________
Ruben
Moderator

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Josh,

I've read that it is and I've read that it isn't.

__________________
Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls
"But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10

"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton

It's not in the PCA Church Directory, and his church's website doesn't say the church is in the PCA. But, you're right, it seems that even if the church were under the oversite of PCA, it wouldn't matter if he had images violating the Second Commandment or not.

Pastor Barnhart, you said:
Respectfully, Pastor, I hope that you wouldn't allow your affinity for Dr. Sproul to eclipse your zeal to see that God's Law being blatantly broken in such a perpetually overt manner should be rebuked.

__________________
Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC, Attending CCRPC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Interesting comments.

I don't consider myself a Sproul devotee who was paying homage yesterday morning.

I gave the first-hand info that I saw yesterday. There were images and crosses etc. But if you're looking for Rudolph or Santa illustrations there were none of those. And there were no life size RC Sproul paintings to greet us when we walked in the door.

__________________
Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls
"But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10

"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton

Just to clarify; those comments were Danny's, but I do find them revealing and agree with others that Worship matters are not RCSR's strong suit (perhaps that suffers from understatement?).

__________________
Chris Coldwell, Lakewood Presbyterian Church (PCA), Member
• Naphtali Press: Presbyterian & Reformed Books
• The Confessional Presbyterian Journal
• The Blue Banner Archive

The Regulative Principle: Samuel Miller gives a succinct statement of this principle when he writes that since the Scriptures are the “only infallible rule of faith and practice, no rite or ceremony ought to have a place in the public worship of God, which is not warranted in Scripture, either by direct precept or example, or by good and sufficient inference.”

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions? Joining PB's Politics & Government Forum