I just remembered that there was a SS a few years ago on Spafford's life:

SermonAudio.com - Reformed Baptist Church

Taught by a USS Cole survivor, and now one of our deacons, no less!

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MarieP
Reformed Baptist Church
Louisville, KY

"I am not worthy of the least of all the mercies and of all the truth which You have shown Your servant" (Gen. 32:10)

A lot times hymns such as "And Can it Be" have been changed in the Trinity to correct the theology. In this one it is changed to "Emptied Himself, so great His love and bled for Adam's chosen race."

Concerning the OP, I'm interested that few have touched the hymns we sing all the time (such as And Can it Be) and have gone straight for the obvious ones. A lot of hymnals are full of songs that have Arminian theology. Many of the hymns of the Wesleys are suspect.

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J Baldwin
Keowee Presbyterian Church, PCA
Pickens, SC
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” Luke 10:27

Check Out My Blog: http://reflectjoy.blogspot.com/

What about hymns in the Red Trinity Hymnal y'all would question?

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Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, Licentiate, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
Member Fairmount ARP Church
Pittsburgh, PA

Deo Vindice

Many of those have been adjusted. At the bottom you'll see "Verses 1-3 by ___; Verse 4 by ____."

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Anna
Wife of Tim/Marrow Man
Louisville, KY
Member of Midlane Park Presbyterian (Associate Reformed Presbyterian)

Yes, that's correct, and you will also notice that in other hymns words have been changed without a notation. That is because a word or two or even one phrase can be changed without violationg copyright laws.

Tim already mentioned my most hated: "The Garden." A close second is "Church in the Wildwood." I mean come, come, come, come on!

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Rev. R. Kevin Carroll
Pastor Elect
Covenant Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Wheat Ridge, CO
Blog: Reformed and Loving It

I enjoy this verse of that hymn:

Long my imprisoned spirit lay,
Fast bound in sin and nature’s night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray—
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.

__________________
John Komenda
Symphony Bible Church
Conservative Baptist
Buffalo, New York

Before they call I will answer; while they are yet speaking I will hear. Is.65:24 ESV

This one:

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Jonathan
Audio Engineer
Reformed Anabaptist
Ohio

Moroni's magical glasses of proper interpretation:

Wesley's line is typical of the kenotic movement in England at the time. Pretty lame Christology, however you cut it.

__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Just as a mild-point of interest - I sit in class right now next to a gentleman who goes to a church in the area where one of the editors for the Trinity Hymnal attends (he's 94!). He's met him. I gave him my Trinity Hymnal to try and get the guy's signature in it. It's kinda like meeting a rock star - a rock star for nerds...

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Jacob
Sovereign Grace Ministries
Covenant Fellowship Church
WTS M.A.R. in Theology student
West Chester, PA

"Grace renews nature; glory perfects grace." ~ John Owen
"Grace tried is better than grace, and more than grace. It is glory in its infancy." ~ John Flavel
Blog - The Strasbourg Inn

Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus, and its in the Trinity Hymnal!?! Experiential at best, gnostic at worst.

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JWithnell
Member Bethel OPC
Virginia
http://learningyesican.blogspot.com/

Ah, I disagree. I imagine it depends on how you read the third line of the chorus:

It says "the things of earth" not "the earth" (which would be Gnostic). This seems to me to have grounding in 1 John 2:15-17
Further, "Turn your eyes upon Jesus" just seems like a poetic way of restating what Paul says in 2 Corinthians 4:6 - "For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” has shone in our hearts to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." How else do we "see" that light but by turning our eyes upon Jesus Christ with the eyes of the heart?

Thus, I don't really think the song is "gnostic at worst". Certainly there's an experiential element to it, but that is never declared as bad in the Bible.

This particular praise & worship by Lincoln Brewster was sung in my non-denom church a few months ago. It bothered me so much, that I had to express my concerns to our elders. This song is pure law! Here are the lyrics:

There is an awful lot of "I will" in this song!

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Carl Gobelman
Long Grove Community Church (Evangelical)
Vernon Hills, IL
Blog: http://newcreationperson.wordpress.com

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come."

Ah, you could be right.

The following is from the red Trinity Hymnal #479. It portrays Christ as a hand-wringing God begging us to come.


Original Trinity Hymnal (blue), #694

Softly and tenderly Jesus is calling,
Calling for you and for me;
See, on the portals he's waiting and watching,
Watching for you and for me.

Come home, come home,
Ye who are weary, come home;
Earnestly, tenderly Jesus is calling,
Calling, O sinner, come home.

Why should we tarry when Jesus is pleading,
Pleading for you and for me?
Why should we linger and heed not his mercies,
Mercies for you and for me?

Time is now fleeting, the moments are passing,
Passing from you and from me;
Shadows are gathering, deathbeds are coming,
Coming for you and for me.

Oh! for the wonderful love he has promised
Promised for you and for me;
Though we have sinned, he has mercy and pardon,
Pardon for you and for me.

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Traci
Lynnwood OPC
"I have taken all my good deeds, and all my bad deeds, and cast them through each other in a heap before the Lord, and fled from both, and betaken myself to the Lord Jesus Christ, and in him I have sweet peace."--David Dickson

I knew someone at the last church I was a member of who objected to the "Above all powers" song by Paul Baloche, because of the last two lines " thought of me above all".

Its easy to criticise songs that describe salvation from mans perspective, because they do not specifically make God's glory the focal point. However, we must remember that Christ did what he did for our benefit as well as the glory of God. I think that is what the song is trying to say... Christ didn't put his own needs first, he showed love to us by laying down His life for our sakes.

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Bern
Evangelical
Kent UK

The following provides a list of the lyrics of the hymns in the "original" Trinity Hymnal.

Original Trinity Hymnal Lyrics

Most are not exceptionally questionable although you will notice an overall imbalance toward what could be called "lovey-dovey" songs and away from "fire and brimstone" songs.

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Mr. P. C. Flanagan, Esq.
Grace Orthodox Presbyterian
Both I and the church of Vienna, VA

That doesn't bother me. I'm not sure that the meaning is incorrect. Christ did think of us above all, on earth. I know his own glory was a principal factor, but I don't think this contradicts that.

I think truth can come from anywhere (though it ultimately comes from God!!). If I read truth or beauty or wisdom that is truly truth, beauty, or wisdom, I don't really mind the source.

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Shalom,
jessi
PCA
Steelers fan exiled to Virginia


“Whatever your heart clings to and confides in, that is really your God.”
Martin Luther

Fenderpriest beat me to it! When I attended a independent fundamentalist dispensational baptist church back in college, we would sing this song quite often.

"When I die hallelujah by and by, I'll fly away!"

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Dewey D
Reformed Heritage Church (Independent at the moment)
San Fransicko, CA

Bern, that is what I said the first time I heard someone criticize the song, but I posted it here to see if others might have the same objection as he did.

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Austin
EE student at Texas State University
Member of Church of the Cross (PCA) in San Marcos, TX
Ps. 8:3-4 "When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?"

I don't think "Above All Powers" fits in very well with the theology of Scripture. If Christ had indeed "thought of me, above all," wouldn't the Scriptures indicate as much? I can see some plausibility to the notion that Christ thought of His Bride, the Church, above all other earthly creatures, but that hardly equates to the individualistic notion that he thought of "me" above all else. I don't think the average Christian sings the song or comes away thinking, "after God's glory and His own, Christ thought of me, in the context of the whole Church as His Bride, above all."

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Joshua Butcher
PCA
College Station, TX

The Phillips, Craig, and Dean song I was thinking of is "Here I Am to Worship." The Missus and I were attending a PCA church once where this was sung in worship (I did not sing it). I mentioned it to the pastor afterward and, to his credit, he was horrified to find out about their modalistic theology.

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Tim Phillips
Pastor, Midlane Park Presbyterian Church (ARP)
Louisville, KY
Husband of Scottish Lass
My Blog: Gairney Bridge
My Facebook/My Avatar

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

"Wherever the gospel is preached, it is as if God Himself came into the midst of us." ~ John Calvin

Actually, I think Matt Redman wrote that song and PCD just covered it. They don't write a lot of their own material.

Just out of curiosity, is your objection to the song or to PCD's modalistic beliefs?

My favourite questionable hymn. Gotta love the passion for heaven, but . . .

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We shall not adjust our Bible to the age; but before we have done with it, by God's grace, we shall adjust the age to the Bible. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon

Lawrence Underwood, Jr.
Pastor - Providence Family Fellowship / Mobile, Alabama
1644/46 LBC
My Blog - Imprimis

Ahem - Matt Hughes saith wiki. He's written other very good songs though!

Are they from the Judson Jukebox?

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Rich Koster
1689'er
Browns Mills NJ USA
Often Goofy Reformed Eccentric
Romans 7:14-25

I *think* this one *might* be questionable, but I don't want to be too dogmatic, lest I offend or make anyone feel uncomfortable.

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Dad
Christ Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church, RPCGA
Facebook - The Calvinist Vent
Board Rules - Signature Rules - Suggestion Box

It is God that multiplies our sorrows.... God, as a righteous Judge, does it, which ought to silence us under all our sorrows; as many as they are, we have deserved them all, and more: nay, God, as a tender Father, does it for our necessary correction, that we may be humbled for sin, and weaned from the world by all our sorrows; and the good we get by them, with the comfort we have under them, will abundantly balance our sorrows, how greatly soever they are multiplied. - Matthew Henry

Actually, we're BOTH wrong...it's Tim Hughes. I couldn't remember whether it was Redman, Chris Tomlin or Tim Hughes. They're all somewhat similar.

I was thinking Tim, honestly!

Get your barfies ready......

"I own the cattle on a thousand hiiiiiils,
But no way I could bend any of their wiiiiills"

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Adam B., Wine Country, California, PCA

"I fear not to hold with Junius, de Politia Mosis cap. 6, that he who was punishable by death under that Judicial law, is punishable by death still; and he who was not punished by death then, is not to be punished by death now."

"I'd rather just leave folks in their sins
And test their sincerity and innocence"

I don't have to watch it. I could sing the song by heart I've heard it so many times. I'll never forget one conference I attended when the worship leader said, (With the opening barres of the song slowly building behind him) 'I hope that you all brought your spiritual kayaks because the river will be flowing strong tonight!'

I understand him as saying that not even the chiefest of the seraphs could play the deepest notes of the Gospel.

I see it as an elaboration of 1 Peter 1:12 "To them it was revealed that, not to themselves, but to us they were ministering the things which now have been reported to you through those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven—things which angels desire to look into."

as well as Hebrews 2:16- "For indeed He does not give aid to angels, but He does give aid to the seed of Abraham."

My brother in law who is part of a Vineyard church told me once that he wouldn't sing "Crown Him With Many Crowns" because of bad theology. I think his theology is generally pretty suspect, but I was wondering if anyone knows why that would be? I love that hymn. I didn't ask him at the time because generally we just degenerate into argument over these sorts of things.

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Catherine
PCA
Waldorf, MD

Whoever gives thought to the word will discover good,
and blessed is he who trusts in the Lord.
Proverbs 16:20 ESV

No, it was from the "Inclusive Hymns for Liberating Chrisitians." However, in the sacred precincts of the Holy Donut, I have heard some inclusive songs sung that came from the same theological piece of hymnal.

Oh wow! I just looked up the words to the hymn and found 4 verses that I hadn't heard before!

Crown him with many crowns,
the Lamb upon his throne.
Hark! How the heavenly anthem drowns
all music but its own.
Awake, my soul, and sing of him
who died for thee,
and hail him as thy matchless King
through all eternity.

Crown him the virgin's Son,
the God incarnate born,
whose arm those crimson trophies won
which now His brow adorn;
fruit of the mystic rose,
as of that rose the stem;
the root whence mercy ever flows,
the Babe of Bethlehem.

Crown him the Son of God,
before the worlds began,
and ye who tread where he hath trod,
crown him the Son of Man;
who every grief hath known
that wrings the human breast,
and takes and bears them for His own,
that all in him may rest.

Crown him the Lord of life,
who triumphed over the grave,
and rose victorious in the strife
for those he came to save.
His glories now we sing,
who died, and rose on high,
who died eternal life to bring,
and lives that death may die.

Crown him the Lord of peace,
whose power a scepter sways
from pole to pole, that wars may cease,
and all be prayer and praise.
his reign shall know no end,
and round his piercèd feet
fair flowers of paradise extend
their fragrance ever sweet.

Crown him the Lord of love,
behold his hands and side,
those wounds, yet visible above,
in beauty glorified.
No angel in the sky
can fully bear that sight,
but downward bends his burning eye
at mysteries so bright.

Crown him the Lord of Heaven,
enthroned in worlds above,
crown him the King to whom is given
the wondrous name of Love.
Crown him with many crowns,
as thrones before him fall;
Crown him, ye kings, with many crowns,
for he is King of all.

Crown him the Lord of lords,
who over all doth reign,
who once on earth, the incarnate Word,
for ransomed sinners slain,
now lives in realms of light,
where saints with angels sing
their songs before him day and night,
their God, Redeemer, King.

Crown him the Lord of years,
the Potentate of time,
Creator of the rolling spheres,
ineffably sublime.
all hail, Redeemer, hail!
For thou has died for me;
thy praise and glory shall not fail
throughout eternity.

Oremus Hymnal: Crown him with many crowns

Could it be that he's a dispensationalist reacting to Jesus already reigning?

-----Added 10/27/2009 at 05:40:04 EST-----

And I just realized that the "Crown Him the Lord of life" verse is not in the TH!

Great verse! Because I work at the seminary, I get to go to all the chapels, and I've sung the song so much there too that I hadn't missed that verse!

How about the narcissistic "In the Garden"

"and the joy we share as we tarry there,
none other has ever known."

None other has known? Wait! Correction- has EVER known. Whoa! How about me and all the other believers?

__________________
Michael Masztal
Ruling Elder, Chapel By The Sea, ARP
Melbourne Beach, FL

Disclaimer: The following article is from an ardent defender of Exclusive Psalmody. The introduction strongly promotes EP over hymnody. I'm not posting it to get into into a psalmody vs. hymnody debate.

In the following essay, Rev. Angus Stewart analyzes the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster's Hymnal. A large number of the hymns found in this hymnal are present in others such as the Trinity Hymnal.

See if you find it possible to sing Charles Wesley's hymns after reading the appendix.

__________________
Bryan Peters
Providence Reformed Church (URCNA)
Des Moines, Iowa

Doctrinal truth should be preached always, openly, without compromise, and never dissembled or concealed. There is no offence in it; it is the staff of uprightness.
~Martin Luther~

I could only handle about 2 1/2 minutes.

Funny this showed up today. In my apologetics class this morning, my students were poking fun at Pensacola CC and Bob Jones U.