Thread: Questionable Hymns

We are often having discussions on the Puritan Board concerning the favorite hymns of PBers. But I was interested in the existence of hymns with, let's say, "questionable" theology (some more questionable than others).

There are at least two aspects I would like to consider. First, if the author of the hymn was notoriously unorthodox, that should render the hymn suspect. For example, Julia Ward Howe, who wrote "Battle Hymn of the Republic," was a Unitarian. I am wonder about suspect authors of other famous hymns. And if the author of the hymn was grossly unorthodox, should we be singing the hymn?

Second, which hymns simply have bad theology? The most hideous hymn I can think of is "In the Garden," but there are others with bad theology, such as "The Savior Is Waiting." Are there others that can be mentioned?

Note: this thread is not to debate psalmody v. hymnody. Any posts of this sort will be unceremoniously deleted.

"The Free Will Song"

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

"The Free Will Song"

I've never heard of that one, Dennis. That's an actual hymn?

BTW, we should probably include praise songs in this discussion. What's the famous one by Phillips (no relation), Craig, and Dean (who are all Modalists)?

That hymn that lotsa people sing on Easter about, "I know that Jesus lives...because He lives within my heart"(just as in sentimental movies where grandpa still "lives on" in our memories and in our hearts...").

"Above All" might qualify. I was going to say, "The Savior is Waiting," but you already covered that one.

Are you familiar with the contemporary song that has the lyrics "heaven met earth like a sloppy wet kiss"?

I think "It came upon a midnight clear" has some issues. There are a couple of different versions (and I don't have one in front of me now - so I can't quote any particular lines), but there seems to be a lot about angel wings brushing earth and gold harps and not a lot about Christ.

Originally Posted by Marrow Man

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

"The Free Will Song"

I've never heard of that one, Dennis. That's an actual hymn?

BTW, we should probably include praise songs in this discussion. What's the famous one by Phillips (no relation), Craig, and Dean (who are all Modalists)?

Are you talking about "Friend of God"?

How about Chris Rice's "Cartoon Song"?

The Free Will Song is not a hymn, if Dennis is referring to the same one I am thinking about. It is a painfully rendered choral piece sung by a group of youth from BJU or some similar place. Please, don't watch it. You were warned in advance.

Adam, I was taking the broader sense of a Christian song sung in public worship. This fits that bill, albeit . . . yech!!!
I know of two "Free Will" songs . . .

The most common is "I Give You Freedom" (The Whippoorwill Song)

I set the boundries of the ocean vast,
Carved out the mountains from the distant past,
Moulded a man from the miry clay,
Breathed in him life, but he went astray.

CHORUS:
I own the cattle on a thousand hills,
I write the music for the whippoorwills,
Control the planets with their rocks and rills,
But give you freedom to use your own will.

And if you want Me to, I’ll make you whole,
I’ll only do it tho’ if you say so.
I’ll never force you, for I love you so,
I give you freedom – Is it “yes” or “no”?

I hold the waters in My mighty hand
Spread out the heavens with a single span,
Make all creation tremble at My voice,
But My own children come to Me by choice.
(chorus)

Even the oxen knows the master’s stall,
And sheep will recognize the shepherd’s call
I could demand your love – I own you twice,
But only willing love is worth the price!
(chorus)

My holy word now I give to you,
As a shining lamp to guide you through,
My yoke is easy and My burden is light,
Keep looking up, your Heavenly home’s in sight.
(chorus)

But, then, there is this one too . . .

Lyrics:
To the maker of this house
The holder of the key
I gave You my heart
But held some back for me
Someday I would give You
Everything I am
But I stole my road to freedom
I took the key and ran
Disconnected
With my hands over my ears
You said You would meet me
If I’d reach out

Chorus
I got a free will
I’m gonna use it
I got a free will
Yes, I do
I got a free will
I’m gonna use it
I got a free will
Yes, I do

Thank You for this gift
It’s still a mystery
My freedom in Your hands
Is how it’s meant to be
It’s only when I give You
Everything I am
Bittersweet surrender
Take me

Chorus
(I’m gonna choose it)

Something ain’t right
You gotta let it go
Something ain’t right
You gotta let it go

I’m gonna make it right
I’m letting go
And it’s up to me
I got a free will

Chorus
(And I’ve got to lose it)

So I give my free will
Back to You
Yes I do
The Son has set me free
And I am free indeed

Is the above song a joke? (This is a serious question).

Originally Posted by Marrow Man

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

\"The Free Will Song\"

I've never heard of that one, Dennis. That's an actual hymn?

BTW, we should probably include praise songs in this discussion. What's the famous one by Phillips (no relation), Craig, and Dean (who are all Modalists)?

The Free Will Song is more like a praise song. There is a very moving (ugh) rendition of the song by the Pensacola worship group on YouTube.

I'm not sure which song my Philips, Craig & Dean you are referring to. I love their music. Sure they are Oneness Pentecostals but much of their music is biblical and a joy to listen to. There were a few songs that I didn't care for and deleted from iTunes (I don't remember why), so you may be referring to one of those.

Oh hey, this is a different song from Dennis'. Never mind, Dennis edited and added this one while I was posting

I've heard of someone who detests the line from Away in a Manger that speaks about Jesus not crying as a baby because it is an implicit denial of Christ's full humanity.

The song "Your Name" by Phillips, Craig, and Dean would be fine (as far as I remember) if you don't know their theology, but when you read the lyrics bearing in mind what Oneness Pentecostals believe about Jesus-only baptism and Jesus' name being magic, it gives the lyrics new meaning.

Originally Posted by Montanablue

Is the above song a joke? (This is a serious question).

Listen to the video that AThornquist posted. That is a SERIOUS song sung by earnest and pious people at the funamentalist Pennsacola Christian College.

I do believe that you should have your post count reset to zero, and only be allowed to make thread-relevant posts in the intro section until you have reached your original post count before ever being allowed to embed a video on the PB again...

There is a CD by Michael Poirier called "Healing after the Choice." It's really bad.

What do you guys think of this one:

Crucified
Laid behind a stone
You lived to die
Rejected and alone
Like a rose
Trampled on the ground
You took the fall
And thought of me
Above all

It's sad because the melody of this song is really good.

Here are some . . .

25. "God is She and He Together"
31. "Come, Father-Mother, Friend and Guide"
34. "O Christ-Sophia, Give Us Power"
35. "Stir Us Out of Our Safe Nest, Mother Eagle"
36. "Out of the Depths Christ-Sophia Is Calling"
38. "Our Mother-Father God Is Near"
45. "Come, Sister-Brother Sprit"
47. "Father-Mother, Kind and Loving"
48. "Womb of All Creation Flowing"
49. "Rise Up, O People, Proclaim Christ-Sophia Has Risen"
51. "O Christ-Sophia, Rise"

Originally Posted by Archlute

I do believe that you should have your post count reset to zero, and only be allowed to make thread-relevant posts in the intro section until you have reached your original post count before ever being allowed to embed a video on the PB again...

If you "Search" for it there are many threads containing the video already. It's not new the PB, meester.

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

Here are some . . .

25. "God is She and He Together"
31. "Come, Father-Mother, Friend and Guide"
34. "O Christ-Sophia, Give Us Power"
35. "Stir Us Out of Our Safe Nest, Mother Eagle"
36. "Out of the Depths Christ-Sophia Is Calling"
38. "Our Mother-Father God Is Near"
45. "Come, Sister-Brother Sprit"
47. "Father-Mother, Kind and Loving"
48. "Womb of All Creation Flowing"
49. "Rise Up, O People, Proclaim Christ-Sophia Has Risen"
51. "O Christ-Sophia, Rise"

Hymns from Hell

Originally Posted by AThornquist

Originally Posted by Archlute

I do believe that you should have your post count reset to zero, and only be allowed to make thread-relevant posts in the intro section until you have reached your original post count before ever being allowed to embed a video on the PB again...

If you "Search" for it there are many threads containing the video already. It's not new the PB, meester.

Ban the whole lot of you

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

Here are some . . .

25. "God is She and He Together"
31. "Come, Father-Mother, Friend and Guide"
34. "O Christ-Sophia, Give Us Power"
35. "Stir Us Out of Our Safe Nest, Mother Eagle"
36. "Out of the Depths Christ-Sophia Is Calling"
38. "Our Mother-Father God Is Near"
45. "Come, Sister-Brother Sprit"
47. "Father-Mother, Kind and Loving"
48. "Womb of All Creation Flowing"
49. "Rise Up, O People, Proclaim Christ-Sophia Has Risen"
51. "O Christ-Sophia, Rise"

Surely - SURELY - these aren't real!

Originally Posted by JTB

I've heard of someone who detests the line from Away in a Manger that speaks about Jesus not crying as a baby because it is an implicit denial of Christ's full humanity.

I hate that line also, as well as the above reason as the dreadfull english:

'not a crying he makes'...

makes me cringe everytime I hear it.

Just as this rendition of the song of simeon is terrible:


Lord, in thy temple we appear,
As happy Simeon came,
And hope to meet our Savior here,
Oh! make our joys the same!

With what divine and vast delight
The good old man was filled,
When fondly in his withered arms
He clasped the holy child.

"Now I can leave this world," he cried,
"Behold, thy servant dies!
I've seen thy great salvation, Lord,
And close my peaceful eyes.

"This is the light prepared to shine
Upon the Gentile lands;
Thine Israel's glory and their hope,
To break their slavish bands."

Jesus! the vision of thy face
Hath overpowering charms!
Scarce shall I feel death's cold embrace,
If Christ be in my arms.

When flesh shall fail, and heart-strings break,
Sweet will the minutes roll;
A mortal paleness on my cheek,
But glory in my soul.

As if he about collapses dead in the courtyard of the temple...

In addition, taking a lot of liberty with his actual song as rendered in Scripture...

Originally Posted by austinww

What do you guys think of this one:

Crucified
Laid behind a stone
You lived to die
Rejected and alone
Like a rose
Trampled on the ground
You took the fall
And thought of me
Above all

It's sad because the melody of this song is really good.

The nice thing about this song is that you can amend the lyrics and still retain consonance with the melody:

Simply change "and thought of me" to "for God's glory" or "for your glory"

Touch Not, Taste Not, Handle Not a beloved temperance "hymn".

If I'm not mistaken, that line from "Away in a Manger" is referring to the fact that, in the song, baby Jesus is asleep. Remember, at that point in the song, we've long since heard "The little Lord Jesus, asleep on the hay." So it says nothing about him never crying...Right?

Touch Not, Taste Not

On of my favorite hymns was always "It is Well with my Soul" But something I just recently learned is that the author, Horatio Spafford, had some serious theological issues! I assume that most of you are familiar with the basic story of his life (i.e. business burns down in Chicago, children die at sea, wife dies in a train wreck, etc...) but after all that he moved to Israel with his daughter and set up some kind of end-times cult. Now I have never noticed anything theologically suspect within that song, but how should the authors weird theology affect our use of an otherwise good song?

Originally Posted by Christusregnat

Touch Not, Taste Not

Wow, that's ironic, given that the verse on which the song is based is a rebuke against exactly the attitude the hymn promotes. It's the very definition of irony!

Originally Posted by austinww

If I'm not mistaken, that line from "Away in a Manger" is referring to the fact that, in the song, baby Jesus is asleep. Remember, at that point in the song, we've long since heard "The little Lord Jesus, asleep on the hay." So it says nothing about him never crying...Right?

Nope, he's awake.

The cattle a lowing,
The baby awakes,
But little lord Jesus,
No crying he makes.

Originally Posted by austinww

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

Here are some . . .

25. \"God is She and He Together\"
31. \"Come, Father-Mother, Friend and Guide\"
34. \"O Christ-Sophia, Give Us Power\"
35. \"Stir Us Out of Our Safe Nest, Mother Eagle\"
36. \"Out of the Depths Christ-Sophia Is Calling\"
38. \"Our Mother-Father God Is Near\"
45. \"Come, Sister-Brother Sprit\"
47. \"Father-Mother, Kind and Loving\"
48. \"Womb of All Creation Flowing\"
49. \"Rise Up, O People, Proclaim Christ-Sophia Has Risen\"
51. \"O Christ-Sophia, Rise\"

Surely - SURELY - these aren't real!

YES, they ARE real!!! "Inclusive Hymns For Liberating Christians" ISBN: 978-1571688606
Amazon has it if you want a spiral bound copy. I can't remember if I borrowed my copy from Marrow Man or Archlute???
Amazon.com: Inclusive Hymns for Liberating Christians (9781571688606): Jann Aldredge-Clanton, Larry E. Schultz: Books

You can pretty much find this stuff in many/most of the mainline denoms. Beware of anything being advertised as "feminist," "womynist," "inclusive," or "progressive."

Please infract me for quoting such blasphemy! I beg you!

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

Originally Posted by austinww

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

Here are some . . .

25. "God is She and He Together"
31. "Come, Father-Mother, Friend and Guide"
34. "O Christ-Sophia, Give Us Power"
35. "Stir Us Out of Our Safe Nest, Mother Eagle"
36. "Out of the Depths Christ-Sophia Is Calling"
38. "Our Mother-Father God Is Near"
45. "Come, Sister-Brother Sprit"
47. "Father-Mother, Kind and Loving"
48. "Womb of All Creation Flowing"
49. "Rise Up, O People, Proclaim Christ-Sophia Has Risen"
51. "O Christ-Sophia, Rise"

Surely - SURELY - these aren't real!

YES, they ARE real!!!

-----Added 10/26/2009 at 11:05:20 EST-----

But seriously, where do those come from; some sort of PCUSA hymnal?

A terrible one was already mentioned in the OP..."Battle Hymn of the Republic" written by a Unitarian. If you know why and when the song was written it becomes even worse.

Now, if you'll excuse me, i'm off to whistle Dixie.

Where do these songs come from? See above edit to my post (#31).

“Let Jesus Come into Your Heart,” by Lelia N. Morris.
If you are tired of the load of your sin, let Jesus come into your heart;
if you desire a new life to begin, let Jesus come into your heart.
If ’tis for purity now that you sigh, let Jesus come into your heart:
fountains for cleansing are flowing near by; let Jesus come into your heart.
If there’s a tempest your voice cannot still, let Jesus come into your heart;
if there’s a void this world never can fill, let Jesus come into your heart.
If you would join the glad songs of the blest, let Jesus come into your heart;
if you would enter the mansions of rest, let Jesus come into your heart.

Refrain: Just now, your doubtings give o’er;
just now, reject Him no more;
just now, throw open the door;
let Jesus come into your heart.

Or, how about this one? "The Savior is Waiting."

The Savior is waiting to enter your heart,
Why don’t you let Him come in?
There’s nothing in this world to keep you apart,
What is your answer to Him?
If you’ll take one step t’ward the Savior, my friend,
You’ll find His arms open wide;
Receive him, and all of your darkness will end,
Within your heart He’ll abide.

Refrain: Time after time he has waited before,
And now He is waiting again
To see if you’re willing to open the door,
O, how He wants to come in.

Ugh. Why did I stumble into this thread. What a way to start the morning.

There's always "emptied himself of all but love..."

Originally Posted by JTB

I've heard of someone who detests the line from Away in a Manger that speaks about Jesus not crying as a baby because it is an implicit denial of Christ's full humanity.

That line's given me trouble each time I sing it. Is there good reason for me to be troubled by it, or no?

-----Added 10/27/2009 at 06:04:56 EST-----

Originally Posted by Hamalas

On of my favorite hymns was always "It is Well with my Soul" But something I just recently learned is that the author, Horatio Spafford, had some serious theological issues! I assume that most of you are familiar with the basic story of his life (i.e. business burns down in Chicago, children die at sea, wife dies in a train wreck, etc...) but after all that he moved to Israel with his daughter and set up some kind of end-times cult. Now I have never noticed anything theologically suspect within that song, but how should the authors weird theology affect our use of an otherwise good song?

We sing songs written by Wesley...and Watts supposedly was not the most consistent man on the doctrine of the Trinity.

http://books.google.com/books?id=5MY...ed=0CBMQ6AEwAw

"I'll Fly Away" has always rubbed me the wrong way for what seems to me an undiluted gnostic view of the physical world being the bad stuff, not sin.

Also, a note on "Above All". Paul Baloche wrote that song, and it has classically been taken to town for that last unfortunate line in the chorus. Bob Kauflin discusses the weaknesses of the song in his book, Worship Matters, and has discusses the problems with Baloche who confesses the way the song has been taken wasn't his intent. Even still, Baloche wrote the commending forward to Kauflin's book where he critiques his own song! What humility!

Wesley's "And Can it Be that I should Gain"

Leaving aside the fact that the title reminds me of a bad diet:

"In vain the firstborn seraph tries
To sound the depths of love divine."

Firstborn seraph???