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10-08-2009, 03:27 PM
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| | | Order of Worship: Confession before/after sermon?
Our Church (and other PCA churches I have been to) has the following order of service:
Prelude
Call to worship
Hymn/Psalm
Prayer of approach
Hymn/Psalm
Confession
Hymn/Psalm
Words of Grace
Understanding our faith (catechism Q&A)
Prayers of the people
Sermon
Hymn
Benediction My question is: Why not place the confession/words of grace, etc (or similiar parts), after the sermon?
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Matthew Morales (Husband to Rachel)
Redeemer Presbyterian Church (Santa Rosa, CA)
"...But this is the one to whom I will look: he who is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at my word." Isaiah 66:2b (ESV)
"Judge not the Lord by feeble sense, But trust Him for his grace;
Behind a frowning providence He hides a smiling face"-William Cowper
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10-08-2009, 03:28 PM
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Some do.
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10-08-2009, 03:58 PM
|  | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: San Marcos, Texas
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My church's reasoning for placing the confession early in the service is that it makes sense for believers, when they come together to worship, to acknowledge their sin and dependence on God's grace as soon as possible, which has implications for the entire worship service. -----Added 10/8/2009 at 02:58:49 EST-----
In other words, the same reason total depravity is the first of the five points - Realization of our utter sinfulness and dependence on God's grace and forgiveness informs our whole theology and worship.
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Austin
EE student at Texas State University
Member of Church of the Cross (PCA) in San Marcos, TX
Ps. 8:3-4 "When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?"
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10-08-2009, 04:15 PM
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| | Quote:
Originally Posted by austinww In other words, the same reason total depravity is the first of the five points - Realization of our utter sinfulness and dependence on God's grace and forgiveness informs our whole theology and worship. | Interesting you should say that...
And yes, in the acronym TULIP it comes first...
But in the Canons of Dordt, it is actually this order: ULTIP
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Bert Mulder
Elder of the First Protestant Reformed Church of Edmonton
Edmonton Alberta Canada
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10-08-2009, 04:19 PM
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That's awesome! I've got to starting calling it ULTIP!
I can see why they would put election first. People could argue till they're blue in the face about whether Scripture teaches total depravity, but there is no ignoring the predestination verses in the Bible unless you do so intentionally.
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10-08-2009, 05:03 PM
|  | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: santa rosa, CA
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Rae - thats interesting. I just have not been to any that order the service that way.
Austin,
I am guessing your point is the reasoning behind why many church structure the service that way.
I am trying to flesh out benefits of having the sermon more on the front end. For instance, after hearing the word preached and being convicted the body would have a time of confession, etc.
I just started reading Bryan Chapell's new book "Christ-Centered Worship" and it looks like he will approach the subject later in the book.
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10-08-2009, 08:02 PM
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Isaiah 6
1In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
2Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
3And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
4And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
5Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
| Isaiah 6. It certainly seems logical that one would acknowledge sin soon after coming into the presence of a holy God (worship).
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Rev. Mark Koller, (RPCGA), North Little Rock, AR
Assistant Pastor, Covenant Presbyterian Church (ARP), Heber Springs, AR
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10-08-2009, 10:04 PM
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Pastor Mark beat me to it!
Worship should follow a cycle of gospel logic. We are invited into God's presence. (Call to worship) We declare his majesty and authority. (Opening hymn/psalm, prayer of adoration/invocation) Our response when confronted by God's majestic and holy character is to recognize our sin and confess it. (Call to confession, confession of sin) God then assures us of our pardon. (Words of assurance/declaration of pardon) We respond with praise. God then teaches us from his word. (Scripture readings and sermon) Then he feeds us at his table (Lord's Supper) We respond with praise and are then sent out with his blessing (Benediction)
Placing the confession after the sermon alters this cycle. I can understand why some do it like, particularly if communion is being celebrated.
Most of the available liturgies that the church has from the past have this kind of cycle. This is basically the Genevan liturgy of Calvin.
Chapell in Christ Centered Worship places various liturgies from various traditions ( RCC, Luther, Geneva, Westminster, Rayburn) and looks at the similarities found in them.
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Donnie MacLeod
Crossroads Presbyterian Fellowship (PCA), Maplewood, MO
MDiv Student Covenant Theological Seminary
You filled my heart with greater joy
than others may have found
As they rejoiced at harvest time,
when grain and wine abound.Ps 4:7, Sing Psalms 2003
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10-09-2009, 01:54 PM
|  | Puritanboard Sophomore | | Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: santa rosa, CA
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I appreciate the responses.
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