I've been wanting to post this for a while.

Throughout various threads on the PB, there have been references to the fact that lots of contemporary "Christian" songs are man-centered and self-glorifying. As someone who attends a church that sings almost exclusively contemporary music, this thought has been very interesting to me. While I've definitely heard them on the radio quite a bit for years now, I'm wondering if anyone had any particular examples that might be found in churches today.

It wasn't until last week when I heard this song on the radio (see below) that I felt compelled to post this on PB. When I first heard it, I thought it was just a post-modern way of worshiping God...until I realized that the very person being given praise in the song wasn't God - it was man.


Here are the lyrics:

Crazy Beautiful by Chasen

Everybody’s been there everyone’s the same
but mostly we don’t care isn’t that a shame
We bring us down face after face
the inside is beautiful but the outside we want to change.
We want to change.
Whoa you’re oh so beautiful, you don’t need anyone’s approval
You’ve got to believe in your self you know you are
You’re crazy beautiful
Well every new year you say your gonna change
From the way you live to how much you weigh,
we don’t want to change.
Whoa you’re oh so beautiful, you don’t need anyone’s approval
You’ve got to believe in your self you know you are
You’re crazy beautiful
Take a look it’s all around you
See the world from different views
The way you shine from the inside
I know with out a doubt
It’s more than what you’ll be
In the world’s eyes.
Whoa you’re oh so beautiful, you don’t need anyone’s a approval
You’ve got to believe in your self you know you are

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Dan Pemberton
Vacaville, CA

Member, First Baptist Church San Luis Obispo
Formerly ABUSA (We left, so I guess that makes us American Baptists Unleashed!)

An example of a song I would not sing if it were presented as praise/worship in a church of which I was in attendance.

I have had a few examples of this happening in my family's church (which is arminian) I love them to death.. I do believe they are genuine christians, but I remember one song which had a lyric "Why won't you let HIM give you new life". I was like.. umm... we let God give us something? I don't think so... I stood up but did not join in singing the song.

Another example was of a song with a lyric that said "YOU died to save humanity". I was like.. hmm.. well in a categorical sense Christ died for human beings.. yes.. you could say that. But, I know that was not the intent of this particular song, the lyric was proclaiming the classic "Christ died for every single human in the world", which of course it not true.. Therefore I could not sing that song either.

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Nikki Edmond
Berean Christian Assembly (Reformed Baptist)
Tucson, AZ
HaveATulip Chat Room for Reformed Believers
Principle and Practice Blog
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

This song is sung in Church, or it's just a song for one's listening enjoyment (I say that very generically)?

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
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Not all music that has Christian themes is necessarily 'worship' music. That does not necessarily make it bad music.

U2 has some good songs with arguably Christian themes, but they are not 'worship' per se. No one would sing "Pride (In the Name of Love)" in a church service would they?

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YWAM has a lot of songs like that, I remember part of one that went, "He does all things well, just look at OUR lives." Hmmmm...

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~etexas~

I agree, which was why I was asking if that song was actually being implemented into a service of the Church.

As far as the lyrics here in this song:

... you don’t need anyone’s approval

I like Charlie Daniels' song better (althought I obviously wouldn't agree with some of his sentiments found therein) in Long Haired Country Boy.

__________________
Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
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Does man-centered music by default mean its not suitable for a worship service? I can't think of an example off hand, but aren't there Psalms that talk about David's blessings received from God. Man-centered, but God glorifying.

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Bob Howes
Framingham, MA

A reoccurring thought:

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

But ultimately, wouldn't the centeredness be on God, since He gives blessings to a sinner like David?

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

KMK- Pride in the name of Love is used and has been used...one very large seeker church in my area has used it..it was justified (by them) by pointing out that the song refers to Christ..."one man come he to justify" "one man betrayed w/ a kiss".. and I've seen Sunday blooday Sunday" used and "Elevation" and "40" a Psalm as well.
Not endorsing...but U2 is used more than you think.

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Gage Browning (Layman)
Grace Community Presbyterian Church
PCA Fort Worth, Texas
www.posttenebraslux.squarespace.com

Yes. And that's what I'm wondering about hymns or other songs that follow that pattern in the Psalms. They talk about blessings from God, to some extent seem to be man-centered, but are God-centered in that the blessing are from God.

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Bob Howes
Framingham, MA

A reoccurring thought:

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Music out of church can be a lot more "free" than inside the church. I love techno for running, but would never dare to play it in church,.. music is to be used for a purpose and for running techno is awesome ...but music needs to fit its purpose. It is not that much of this music is "bad" - it is just bad for church.

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

What about the Ray Boltz Classic "Heaven is counting on you", played in alot of churches during its heyday? Talk about pressure

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Scott Kessler
Covenant Community OPC
Staunton, VA
Covenant Theology
Christian Skepticism
Christianity In History

Ray Boltz is inappropriate in any setting.

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Gage Browning (Layman)
Grace Community Presbyterian Church
PCA Fort Worth, Texas
www.posttenebraslux.squarespace.com

I'm sorry when you said techno my first response was >

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Nikki Edmond
Berean Christian Assembly (Reformed Baptist)
Tucson, AZ
HaveATulip Chat Room for Reformed Believers
Principle and Practice Blog
Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.

What about "The Devil Went Down to Georgia"? That has Christian themes, right? And what about "Jesus Is Just Alright" by the Doobie Brothers! Are there churches that are using these gems?

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I'm not sure, but I hope you didn't think I was advocating the use of Charlie Daniels in worship?

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
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No- I don't think the Charlie Daniels Band has been used, although I have seen a "Cool and the Gang" song used - "There's a party going on right here- Celebration" cmon sing it w/ me. No they don't use the Charlie Daniels Band I think because they don't have any constituents who like him. The line that they draw is one of appealing to the constituency. Purely pragmatic.

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Gage Browning (Layman)
Grace Community Presbyterian Church
PCA Fort Worth, Texas
www.posttenebraslux.squarespace.com

I played in the "worship" band at the seeker church I attended prior to discovering the Reformation. We played a lot of U2, Bob Dylan, Beatles, Five for Fighting, Creed, Jars of Clay, Pearl Jam, The Who, Pink Floyd... just to name a few.

The man worship was not as evident as the centrality of the very act of worship. Many of the choruses focus on "look what I am doing to worship God" type themes. It is very common to hear lyrics such as , "I lift up my hands," "Here I come to worship," "I bow down," "I will sing...," "I will praise," "I will dance," etc, etc.

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--chRis
Psalm 115:1

Christopher Reeder
Husband to Kara, Father to Abigail (7), Caleb (6), Grace (4 1/2), Zoë (3), Elijah (1 1/2) and Hannah (born 8/8/2008)

Member: Pilgrim Presbyterian Church (OPC), Raleigh, NC

I disagree. That song "That's what this Altar is for," really brings back some Finnememories for me. Touching. It also reminds me of sacrificing goats. Man...good stuff.

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Oh yeah! I remember those days. Sporting my suhweet Strat, my mic and stand, with a bassist, drummer, and another guitar! Let's see...we played so much junk.

My Sacrifice-Creed
Higher-Creed
Spirit in the Sky?!?!!!?

__________________
Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?