John 4:24 "in spirit and in truth"

Presbyterian Deacon · #1 (**permalink**) 04-06-2008, 08:56 PM

In John 4:24 we read, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

How would you explain this concept to a "new" believer? What does it mean to worship God in spirit and in truth?

A5pointer · #2 (**permalink**) 04-06-2008, 09:06 PM

See D.A. Carson on John

Presbyterian Deacon · #3 (**permalink**) 04-06-2008, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A5pointer

See D.A. Carson on John

Thanks, but I'm more interested in seeing how PB members understand, and would explain this phrase to a new Christian. Perhaps some insights or illustrations that would be helpful in discussing this verse...that sort of thing.

panta dokimazete · #4 (**permalink**) 04-06-2008, 10:49 PM

My

In spirit (with all the heart, and with all the soul, and with all the might) and truth (limited by His own revealed will, that He may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representation, or any other way not prescribed in the holy Scripture)

from here

panta dokimazete · #5 (**permalink**) 04-06-2008, 10:53 PM

Also:

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VI. Neither prayer, nor any other part of religious worship, is now, under the Gospel, either tied unto, or made more acceptable by any place in which it is performed, or towards which it is directed: but God is to be worshipped everywhere, in spirit and truth; as, in private families daily, and in secret, each one by himself; so, more solemnly in the public assemblies, which are not carelessly or wilfully to be neglected, or forsaken, when God, by His Word or providence, calls thereunto.

Poimen · #6 (**permalink**) 04-06-2008, 11:52 PM

If you can follow my sermons notes on this passage, they may hold some profit for you:

-though it was God’s will to be worshipped at Jerusalem for a time, the time is coming when true worshippers will desire to serve the Father in “spirit and in truth”
-for Christ having come and inaugurated the new and final age (covenant) by His death and resurrection, the church would enfold all who believed in His name for the forgiveness of sins
-the abrogation (end) of ceremonies marks us different than God’s people in the OT: this is entirely consistent with the NT focus on the mystery being revealed in the coming of the Messiah – far from saying that the Israelites never worshipped God properly, or in truth, this worship was only meant to be for a time until the full revelation of the gospel was brought forth (more? Turn to Hebrews: fulfillment)

-thus we are no longer restricted to a place of worship but only to the style or manner
-so Christ says “God is a spirit (spirit) and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit in truth”

-the first thing we may note is that true worship is according to God’s character Spirit: worship is defined by His being, His attributes not by our will or desire
-when we worship God we ought to see His immutability, omniscience, omnipresence, infinity, independence
-when we worship God we ought to see His grace, mercy, love, justice and wrath
-instead of making services appeal to our sinful hearts or to the demands of the world we ought to show and praise God: in our music, in our words our attitudes, everything
-if our services are half-hearted, irreverent or utterly without life then this is the god we worship, but then he is not the true God of the scriptures

-this point is supported by what our Lord tells us concerning the necessity of this type of worship: “must” anyone who truly worships God desires to do it as He pleases; and if they don’t then they ought to examine themselves whether they are in the faith, as Paul says
-and yet on the other hand, it does little good if we rant and rave about the fact that we must worship God according to His Word if we don’t examine His word and see what He would have us do

-practically, what does it mean to worship in spirit and truth?

1) Trinitarian: Father, Son and Holy Spirit
John 14:6 “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.”
John 16:13 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.”
-we cannot worship the Father without the Son, or the Father and the Son without the Spirit (as the Pharisees)
-many of the people to whom Christ addressed throughout His ministry would have thought that these men were true worshippers and yet they were white-washed tombs
-in a very real sense they did not know God because they did not believe in His Son nor receive His Spirit: salvation from God is our motivation!

2) secondly we must be very careful not to make worshipping in Spirit an invention of our imagination: not as we feel, as before, but in spirit and truth
-they go together: John 17:17 “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.”

Presbyterian Deacon · #7 (**permalink**) 04-07-2008, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Presbyterian Deacon

In John 4:24 we read, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

How would you explain this concept to a "new" believer? What does it mean to worship God in spirit and in truth?

Thank you JD and Poimen. Anyone else?

I am especially interested in thoughts about what is meant here by "spirit." Is it the human spirit, the Holy Spirit, or some combination of the two?

It is interesting that Jesus says, the Father seeks those who will worship Him in spirit and truth, but doesn't explain what He means by that. How would the woman he was talking to have understood it?

Today, we can tie it into other portions of scripture. "What is truth?" "Sanctify them through thy word, thy word is truth," and so forth. We can look at how it is explained in the confessions and catechisms, but I guess my question at this point is this:

Was there some understanding of what Jesus meant that was common to His day (ie--no need to explain what He meant to the woman) that we have lost sight of?

Any thoghts?

ColdSilverMoon · #8 (**permalink**) 04-07-2008, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Presbyterian Deacon

In John 4:24 we read, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

How would you explain this concept to a "new" believer? What does it mean to worship God in spirit and in truth?

Worship with authenticity and accuracy.

VirginiaHuguenot · #9 (**permalink**) 04-07-2008, 09:59 PM

I believe the sense is, because God is a spirit, we are to worship him, not vainly or carnally, but with our spirits, that is, inwardly and not merely externally with lip service, by the help of the Holy Spirit, according to the rule that he has given us, even his word, which is truth (John 17.17).

George Swinnock, "The Christian Man's Calling" in Works, Vol. 1, p. 34:

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"God is a spirit, and he will be worshipped in spirit and in truth," John 4:24. In truth, that is, scripturally; opposite to the inventions of men's heads: in spirit, that is, sincerely; opposite to the dissimulation of men's hearts.

Archibald Hall, Gospel Worship, p. 22:

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In a word, whatever constitutes real, vital, powerful, and practical godliness, is characteristic of believers and their worship, under each dispensation: and therefore as "the worshipping of God in the spirit," [John 4:24] must denote something not confined to the Jewish saints, as such; it must have a reference to the system of gospel-institutions, appointed by Christ after his resurrection, which does not exclude bodily worship, but only figurative carnal ordinances.

John L. Girardeau, Instrumental Music in Public Worship, pp. 109-110:

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In his conversation with the Samaritan woman at Jacob's well, our Savior enounced the great principle of the spirituality of worship: "God is a spirit, and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." [John 4:24] While he acknowledged that the Jews, in contradistinction to the Samaritans, paid intelligent worship to God, for the reason that it involved the knowledge of salvation—a salvation to be accomplished by One who, according to the flesh, would spring from the Jewish stock, and while he virtually admitted that they had complied with divine direction in conducting a ceremonial and typical worship with its seat at Jerusalem, he added the significant words: "Believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father ... The hour cometh and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him." [John 4:21-23] In these words, which adumbrated the genius of gospel-worship, our blessed Lord clearly taught two things: first, that the ceremonial, typical, ritualistic worship of the Jewish temple was designed to be temporary, and that the hour was swiftly approaching when it would be entirely abolished; secondly, that even that stated worship which had been devoid of a ceremonial, typical and ritualistic character, would, under the influences to be exerted upon the people of God in the dispensation about to be inaugurated, become more spiritual than ever.

George Hutcheson, An Exposition of John's Gospel, pp. 64-65:

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As for these two properties of worship -- "in spirit and in truth," they must be taken in opposition to the properties of the former worship, and so they come to one in substance, that instead of external ceremonies, which are called carnal, Hebrews, vii. 16; ix. 10; and shadows, Heb. x. 1; the Lord would have a spiritual worship, and the truth of what was represented by these shadows, as Rom. xii. 1; Heb. xiii. 15, 16.
...
5. It is not sufficient to make an approven worshipper that they do not multiply rites and ceremonies, but their worship must be chiefly inward, flowing from grace engaging the heart in God's service, and from the breathing and influence of the Spirit; not resting on an external form of lawful worship, or any bodily exercise about it. So much also are we taught from this, that worship must be "spirit," or spiritual, for the manner of performance as well as for its nature in itself.

6. God requires also in a worshipper that with avoiding of formality, which is but a deceitful, hypocritical show of worship, he studies sincerity and straightness of heart, not dealing negligently, or for by-ends in God's service; for worship must be "in truth."

7. It is the Lord's will and appointment alone that can give a being to true worship, and to this must all our reasonings about this matter be subject. And therefore his enjoining of spiritual, substantial, and sincere worship should commend it to his people. So much doth the subjoining of this reason -- "for the Father seeketh such to worship him" -- teach.

Fisher's Catechism:

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Q. 4.16. What may we learn from God's being a spirit?

A. To worship him in spirit and in truth, John 4:24.

Q. 4.17. What is it to worship him in spirit and in truth?

A. It is to worship him, from a real and saving knowledge of what he is in Christ to lost sinners of mankind, John 17:3.

See also, Stephen Charnock, Existence and Attributes of God, Vol. 1, "Discourse 4 -- On Spiritual Worship (John 4.24).

armourbearer · #10 (**permalink**) 04-07-2008, 10:36 PM

Besides applying the words to the matter (what) and the manner (how) of worship, Hugh Binning also speaks of an aspect which is rarely touched on, but I consider to be the principal lesson which Christ was teaching the woman of Samaria. For distinction sake I call it the *measure* of worship.

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But more particularly, the worship must have the stamp of God's spiritual nature, and be conformed to it in some measure, else it cannot please him. There must be a conformity between God and souls. This is the great end of the gospel, to repair that image of God which was once upon man, and make him like God again. Now, it is this way that Jesus Christ repairs this image, and brings about the conformity with God, by the soul's worshipping of God suitable to his nature, which, as it grows more and more suitable to God's nature, it is the more and more like God, and happy in that likeness. Now, "God is a Spirit, therefore," saith Christ, you "must worship him in spirit and in truth." The worship then of saints must be of a spiritual nature, that it may be like the immortal divine Spirit. It is such worshippers the Father seeks. He seeks souls to make them like himself and this likeness and conformity to God is the very foundation of the soul's happiness, and eternal refreshment. This is a point of great consequence, and I fear not laid to heart.

Iconoclast · #11 (**permalink**) 04-08-2008, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Presbyterian Deacon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Presbyterian Deacon

In John 4:24 we read, "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."

How would you explain this concept to a "new" believer? What does it mean to worship God in spirit and in truth?

Thank you JD and Poimen. Anyone else?

I am especially interested in thoughts about what is meant here by "spirit." Is it the human spirit, the Holy Spirit, or some combination of the two?

It is interesting that Jesus says, the Father seeks those who will worship Him in spirit and truth, but doesn't explain what He means by that. How would the woman he was talking to have understood it?

Today, we can tie it into other portions of scripture. "What is truth?" "Sanctify them through thy word, thy word is truth," and so forth. We can look at how it is explained in the confessions and catechisms, but I guess my question at this point is this:

Was there some understanding of what Jesus meant that was common to His day (ie--no need to explain what He meant to the woman) that we have lost sight of?

Any thoghts?

Clearly Jn 4:24 has several portions of the Nt. that speak to it's fulfillment.

Isa.64 :

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1Oh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence,

2As when the melting fire burneth, the fire causeth the waters to boil, to make thy name known to thine adversaries, that the nations may tremble at thy presence!

3When thou didst terrible things which we looked not for, thou camest down, the mountains flowed down at thy presence.

4For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.

quoted by Paul in 1 Cor2:7-16

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4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

This knowledge is Spirit given .We are translated into the Kingdom of The Son.
Jn3-

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6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Peter spoke of this 1Pet1

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9Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

10Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

11Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

12Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

13Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

and again-

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22Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

I could also cut and paste virtually all of Isa. 40-66,[although it is difficult to read such a long post] but look at all the promises of the law going forth to the gentiles,The Servant raising up His people,both Jew and Gentile.All the promises made to Zion and Jerusalem coming to pass as the Nt temple is built with living stones. Just read the second half of Isa. or at least 61-66.
Look at the descriptions of the worshippers being trees of righteousness,priests of the Lord,
All of the promises of these chapters can only be fulfilled in the realm of the Spirit, with only those who are Spirit baptized, in saving union with Christ.
No more, No less.

Dieter Schneider · #12 (**permalink**) 04-09-2008, 08:35 AM

To add more ...

1. Context: Encounter with the Samaritan woman (there is true and false worship; cf. will worship, entertainment; formalism; superstition, etc.)
2. Initiative: The Father does the seeking (4:23b.)
3. The Messianic Cross: v.23 makes reference to 'the hour'; a Johannine reference to the Cross! of the Messiah (vv.25f.) who Himself is the truth. The very idea, of course, is repudiated by the natural man, however religious he may be, see 1.Cor.1f. .
4. 'Must' - means necessary.

In essence, true worship is Christ- / Cross-centered rather than man-centered. I fear that is the missing element, and it is just possible to imagine a Christ-less Church, see Rev.3:20.

And here is a good audio sermon by Eric Alexander.