Manpads

Abd_Yesua_alMasih · #1 (**permalink**) 06-03-2008, 07:25 PM

This is such a strange topic to put on the PB that I am not sure under what topic to put it. I decided to put it under technology.

The reason I want to discuss this though is because I know a number of you have worked in the armed forces of various countries and there are others familiar with the security industry.

Background: I am doing a graduate study on arms trafficking. I am focusing mostly on small arms rather than larger things like Man Portable Air Defense Systems (MANPADS). I do not really mention them, so they are outside of my topic (hence you are not really helping me with my study). However, as soon as people hear you are doing this topic they expect you to know about MANPADS as well and have an intelligent discussion about them.

With this in mind I have done some reading, but not being an expert on the subject (and with most books being written by screaming liberals or conspiracy theorists), I do not always know what to believe.

My understanding is that the proliferation of MANPADS does posse a security threat, but I do not know how much.

I have read in a few places that MANPADS on the most part are fairly useless. If fired at a jet liner they might create a scare but probably would not bring it down (I think they said something about only one brought down in thirty years out of many attempts). This is because modern passenger/cargo jets are designed to work with the loss of one engine. MANPADS on the most part follow heat signatures, so they will almost always hit one engine but by their nature not the others (one missile, one hit).

So my questions:
Are MANPADS then really a huge security risk worth spending millions of dollars on with commercial airliners? I can see problems with military helicopters/jets but probably not on others.

Are their missiles that will look onto multiple signatures (ie. two engines) and strike between them (at the fuselage).

What is the deal with the laser guided MANPADS? Presumably they will follow a target and hit where the person wants it to. This would mean though the person has to be out in open and how accurate are they?

What is the shelf-life of these MANPADS that were sent to Islamic countries like Iran and Afghanistan in the 1980s?

Does anyone know of any books/discussion papers/essays on this that are reliable and authoritative?

Anyway thanks in advance for any assistance.

Semper Fidelis · #2 (**permalink**) 06-03-2008, 08:03 PM

Fraser,

I can't answer all these questions and some of the answers to your questions are likely classified.

I'm thinking primarily of the Stinger in reference to your question. These are designed for light infantry to be able to defend against jets and other types of aircraft but there is a range limitation. They cannot simply be fired from the ground at an aircraft 6 miles in the air. From that perspective, they are relatively safe.

I think the danger would be if someone deployed a Stinger near an airplane as it was landing or taking off.

Abd_Yesua_alMasih · #3 (**permalink**) 06-03-2008, 08:24 PM

I am of the same understanding, and yet most times these are fired at aircraft at take off they seem to miss, or if they hit they do not succeed in bringing the aircraft down. I believe the only case was one somewhere in Africa a few decades ago.

Semper Fidelis · #4 (**permalink**) 06-03-2008, 08:28 PM

Well, let's just say that the Iraqis shot at the Marines during OIF I and missed quite a bit.

We didn't.

Archlute · #5 (**permalink**) 06-03-2008, 08:59 PM

Ha ha, Manpads! I though this was going to be some strange discussion regarding something along the lines of a "man-purse". I had not heard that term used before.

I have experience in using the Stinger system. Like Rich mentioned, it's probably not a good idea to talk about potentially classified info on an open forum, but I will say this: for the Stinger to be effective it must have a well-trained user. In order to be well trained you must be in possession of a) a Stinger simulation system (which still only trains one in the basics of the mechanics of engaging a target), or b) a fair number of actual Stingers (and drone aircraft) upon which to practice. I am not an expert on the capabilities of third-world terrorist militia, but the understanding that I was given during my time in service was that there were very few who had the resources to train effectively in the use of these systems. That was over a decade ago, mind you, but the fact remains that whoever would attempt to employ one would have to acquire a fair amount of training equipment/live munitions in order to be effective in their task.

Abd_Yesua_alMasih · #6 (**permalink**) 06-03-2008, 11:00 PM

That makes sense, but with the increasing number of Chinese and Russian made HN and SA series that are available around the world, I would suspect that there is an equally increasing number of people who know how to use them. I just doubt their efficiency.

I understand about classified material but I am just looking for any insights that can be given. It is all good

I do not want instruction manuals on how to use them or exact specifications.

Quickened · #7 (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archlute

Ha ha, Manpads! I though this was going to be some strange discussion regarding something along the lines of a "man-purse". I had not heard that term used before.

I had the same thought when i first saw the thread title!