The Family & The Internet

JOwen · #1 (**permalink**) 07-04-2008, 10:37 AM

From Kerugma

The Family & The Internet

We have a great responsibility as Christians to watch what we set before our eyes. Many who would not have a television in their home have at least one computer connected to the internet. The truth is there is far more danger to the family on the internet than there is on television. Uncontrolled music, images, video, and other forms of media are at the disposal of any who wish to utilize them in an semi-private way. What is the Christian parent to do? I have said before that the Internet is not going anywhere anytime soon. It is the modern Gutenberg printing press that can have great advantage to the Christian community. What are we to do as Christians?

My first suggestion is a change in operating system. Yikes! Most reading this will be using some form of Windows operating system (98, XP, Vista), but these operating systems are not geared toward the family. Some have tried to use programs like Net Nanny, or CyberPatrol, but these can be costly and a bit hard to manage (endless updates, permissions, etc). In our home, a few years ago, we switched from XP to Linux, a free operating system that exceeds the functionality of Windows by a long shot. There was a time when only true computer nuts could use Linux, but now, the novice can use it with little effort. One great Linux operating system is which is built for the Christian is called Ubuntu Christian Edition. It is the perfect operating system for the family because it is built to protect from, and filter out all the rubbish one could find on the Internet. It means that our children can surf the net with a great level of certainty that they are not going to stumble upon those sites that could cause them harm. They can't they are blocked at the server! Further, it will also give the parent peace of mind that other users of that computer can't look at inappropriate material.

Ubuntu Christian Edition also comes with:

GnomeSword Bible Study Software
E-Sword Bible Study Software
Dansguardian Web Content Parental Controls
GnuCash Financial Management Software
OpenOffice Suit (MS Word Suit equivalent)
Firefox Web Browser with Bible Fox Theme and extra Christian extensions
Automatix2 (a program that lets you download thousands of free Linux programs)
Daily Bible Verse Feature
BibleMemorizer
The Word Installer
Daily Bible Verse on desktop using gDesklets
Gimp Image Editor (Like Photoshop)
MPlayer (DVD watching program)
MP3 Players
and much more... . Almost any program you have in Windows you can find the Linux equivalent. Best of all, Linux is FREE. It looks better that Windows, never crashes, and runs 3 times as fast.

Now it means that for the next two weeks, you are going to have to let go everything you know about computers and relearn. But many of you are doing this already with Vista. If you can make the switch from Windows XP to Vista, you can make the switch to Linux easily. Best of all, you can download a "live CD: of Ubuntu Christian Edition and test it out on your CD Rom without making the switch! You can download the Live CD here. If you like it, back up all your important files (pictures, letters, whatever, onto a CD), and make the switch.

Second, if you want to keep Windows consider OpenDNS. From their site, "OpenDNS protects millions of people a day across hundreds of thousands of schools, businesses and homes. We block phishing sites, give you the power to filter out adult sites and proxies among more than 50 categories, and provide the precision to block individual domains." In other words, it keeps your computer safe much the same way Ubuntu Christian Edition does. It is free, powerful, and very safe.

Lastly, drop Google, and switch to AltaVista for your search engine. Google has some filtering controls, but they can be turned off at will. With AltaVista, you get the same search capabilities, but under the "Settings" tab, nest to the "find" button, you can create a password that will keep the content filter on all the time (click here). Let a friend or extended family member put in the password, so no one in the house knows what it is.

These are a few suggestions to keep our homes safer. We need to protect our families from the outside forces that seek to dismantle them, and at the same time, use technology to our advantage.

gene_mingo · #2 (**permalink**) 07-04-2008, 10:42 AM

While software is a helpful tool for content filtering on the internet, the best tool is supervision. Our computer is in a open area between the living room and dining room. My children are not allowed to be on the internet unsupervised.

***fredtgreco*** · #3 (**permalink**) 07-04-2008, 10:55 AM

I would agree with Josh. The first, and most effective tool is supervision. If we are honest 99% of all computer users will not ever switch to a form of Linux. I know more about computers than most, and I doubt I ever will. Suggesting that switch to my congregation will give me 10-15 calls a week to fix, tweak, and "why doesn't this device/driver/program work?" No thanks.

But if I tell them to place the PC in their open room, that gives not only supervision, but potential family time around a game, video, etc.

JOwen · #4 (**permalink**) 07-04-2008, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

I would agree with Josh. The first, and most effective tool is supervision. If we are honest 99% of all computer users will not ever switch to a form of Linux. I know more about computers than most, and I doubt I ever will. Suggesting that switch to my congregation will give me 10-15 calls a week to fix, tweak, and "why doesn't this device/driver/program work?" No thanks.

But if I tell them to place the PC in their open room, that gives not only supervision, but potential family time around a game, video, etc.

Yes, we do this as well. Our computer is in the kitchen. This does not however remove the "stumble upon" rubbish that is found without looking. No amount of supervision can remove the 9/10ths of a millisecond viewing of some disturbing images by accident that will be with a child forever. Nor cant it protect from the "weak moments" when it seems no one is looking. In most homes when people say that their computer is self supervised, they are speaking idealistically, not realistically.

More and more are switching to Linux as an alternative to Windows. 99% is a bit high. Even Compaq and Lovono (IBM) are now selling computers with Linux as the OS in places like Staples and Best Buy (at least in Canada). All drivers are out of the box functional including wifi, sound, video, LAN etc. And for every proprietary Windows based program there are several Linux equivalents. There are no real excuses anymore why not to switch except preference. Complexity is simply not an issue any more. Download a trial CD and take a look. You will be pleasantly surprised.

gene_mingo · #5 (**permalink**) 07-04-2008, 11:34 AM

My children are not allowed to surf the internet by link stumbling. They have a list of approved sites that they may goto. Any new sites have to be previewed by myself or my wife. This does cause complaints from my children. I am not always as quick previewing sites as they would like me to be.

JBaldwin · #6 (**permalink**) 07-04-2008, 11:35 PM

We learned the hard way with our oldest daughter. We gave her internet access with parental blocks. Even with the parental blocks, she was still able to access things she was not allowed to access. The only solution was to cut internet access from her computer and go to supervised use on my computer when I am in the room with her.

calgal · #7 (**permalink**) 07-05-2008, 02:30 PM

With all due respect Pastor Lewis, the problem with net nanny software or even the program you describe is unintended consequences. The most common one is the settings are set and will not allow you or your wife to access sites you have a legitimate need to preview. We have had that issue at work. Our IS department set up filters to exclude ebay and similar sites. We could not access Mapquest (for which there is a genuine legitimate business use). The settings had to be reconfigured so nobody can access Yahoo, AOL or ebay. This is easy for a team of professionals getting paid to do this but for a family? A waste of time and money. For an example of an unintended consequence consider Craig's List. We buy inexpensive but useful stuff from there and avoid the rants and raves (lots of bad words therein). If you use Net nanny or some other filtering software or OS, how likely is it that Craig's List will be excluded due to the bad words in certain areas on the site? Same goes for Amazon.com. There are some horrid titles there but there are also a ton of Christian books and resources there. Would not the Ubuntu and Net Nanny also exclude that site?

I understand your concerns about the internet and find it frightening when children are not supervised while net surfing because mom "trusts her kiddies". The same problem would apply to reading materials. I would hope any books coming in your home would be scrutinized as much as the internet. And that anyone working with your covenant children are background checked and fingerprinted. I am not being sarcastic but am dead serious. Pedophiles are NOT confined to cyberspace.

JOwen · #8 (**permalink**) 07-05-2008, 03:24 PM

Understood! What I am suggesting is a OS that allows YOU, as a parent, to add or not, any site that you like. Dansguardian is open source like all Linux software and can easily be adapted to even the novices ability. It was made for families. As a father of 8, I'm all for screening, placing the computer in the kitchen, previewing sites, etc. Changing to another platform is only on of dozens of careful helps we can implement to widen the buffer between our kids and the WWW. Not only our kids, but ourselves as well, and anyone who might be house sitting, visiting, or simply using our computers ad hoc. Above all, it is not hard to use, it is free, and better than other OS out there.

Blessings!

calgal · #9 (**permalink**) 07-05-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOwen

Understood! What I am suggesting is a OS that allows YOU, as a parent, to add or not, any site that you like. Dansguardian is open source like all Linux software and can easily be adapted to even the novices ability. It was made for families. As a father of 8, I'm all for screening, placing the computer in the kitchen, previewing sites, etc. Changing to another platform is only on of dozens of careful helps we can implement to widen the buffer between our kids and the WWW. Not only our kids, but ourselves as well, and anyone who might be house sitting, visiting, or simply using our computers ad hoc. Above all, it is not hard to use, it is free, and better than other OS out there.

Blessings!

One more sort of silly question: how can you know if you like a site or not unless you can view it? And can you selectively allow viewing of a site? Some sites have areas that are somewhat child friendly and areas on the otherwise useful site that are NOT acceptable for kids (WebMD comes to mind). We do not own a net nanny and do not let ANY kids on the 'net in our house unless DH or I are right there to see exactly what they are viewing (I am a mean mean auntie). I have a theory (my poor future kiddies): Treating a child's access to the internet like one would a large bookstore or shopping mall: no browsing without a parent or responsible adult present and making sure the machine is either locked up or password protected when there is no adult in the room.

***fredtgreco*** · #10 (**permalink**) 07-15-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JOwen

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

I would agree with Josh. The first, and most effective tool is supervision. If we are honest 99% of all computer users will not ever switch to a form of Linux. I know more about computers than most, and I doubt I ever will. Suggesting that switch to my congregation will give me 10-15 calls a week to fix, tweak, and "why doesn't this device/driver/program work?" No thanks.

But if I tell them to place the PC in their open room, that gives not only supervision, but potential family time around a game, video, etc.

Yes, we do this as well. Our computer is in the kitchen. This does not however remove the "stumble upon" rubbish that is found without looking. No amount of supervision can remove the 9/10ths of a millisecond viewing of some disturbing images by accident that will be with a child forever. Nor cant it protect from the "weak moments" when it seems no one is looking. In most homes when people say that their computer is self supervised, they are speaking idealistically, not realistically.

More and more are switching to Linux as an alternative to Windows. 99% is a bit high. Even Compaq and Lovono (IBM) are now selling computers with Linux as the OS in places like Staples and Best Buy (at least in Canada). All drivers are out of the box functional including wifi, sound, video, LAN etc. And for every proprietary Windows based program there are several Linux equivalents. There are no real excuses anymore why not to switch except preference. Complexity is simply not an issue any more. Download a trial CD and take a look. You will be pleasantly surprised.

While searching around for some iPhone information, I came across this wiki:
Usage share of desktop operating systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Windows has between 90 and 95% of market share, and Mac between 4 and 8%. No measurement of Linux is more than 2% and most are sub 1%.

danmpem · #11 (**permalink**) 07-15-2008, 12:58 PM

I have been thinking about this issue for a long time. I have to understand that my kids are probably going to figure out, if they really want to, how to get around my little road blocks with enough time and effort, even if I use passwords. This goes for Mac, Vista, and Linux.

While there is no solution that will work for every one of us, I do like the idea of having the computer supervised and in a dining room.

A few misc. things to consider when deciding which method of protection to use:

- There are web site filter add-ons, as well as banner, picture, and flash video blockers available for Firefox.
- There are programs readily available on bit torrent to crack almost any password. (Don't get too paranoid yet. PM me if you want more info on how to be safe from this)
- Command-line web browsing really isn't as bad as it sounds. Try lynx on the Linux console.
- There is very good web site filtering that can be accomplished from the router itself.
- You can turn on/off internet access straight from the router. You can also set timers that only allow a connection to go to a particular computer at certain hourse of the day.
- If a child needs a computer in their room for writing papers and the like, MAC address filtering can prevent unwanted wired & wireless cards from being used.

***fredtgreco*** · #12 (**permalink**) 07-15-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danmpem

- You can turn on/off internet access straight from the router. You can also set timers that only allow a connection to go to a particular computer at certain hourse of the day.
- If a child needs a computer in their room for writing papers and the like, MAC address filtering can prevent unwanted wired & wireless cards from being used.

I really think this is the solution. Can remote access a router so I could turn it on and off (or certain MAC addresses) from work?

Pergamum · #13 (**permalink**) 07-15-2008, 01:04 PM

Shocking story:

My friend had a large church party over to make sugar and spice cookies and tried to look up the recipe by entering key phrases (sugar and spice, etc) into the top address lines. And SURPRISE! He downloaded some bad stuff by accident right there in front of half his congregation.

danmpem · #14 (**permalink**) 07-15-2008, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

Quote:

Originally Posted by danmpem

- You can turn on/off internet access straight from the router. You can also set timers that only allow a connection to go to a particular computer at certain hourse of the day.
- If a child needs a computer in their room for writing papers and the like, MAC address filtering can prevent unwanted wired & wireless cards from being used.

I really think this is the solution. Can remote access a router so I could turn it on and off (or certain MAC addresses) from work?

Yes you can. Turn on remote desktop connection on your home computer. Use your WAN IP to get from work to your home computer on RDC. Open a web browser and type in the local ip of the router. You should be looking at it now.

***fredtgreco*** · #15 (**permalink**) 07-15-2008, 08:27 PM

I can do that already using LogMeIn. Isn't there also a way to get at the router itself (i.e. if the home PC is off)?

danmpem · #16 (**permalink**) 07-15-2008, 09:43 PM

Oh, I see. Hmm, I would imagine there is, but I honestly don't know. When you find out, please let me know.

gene_mingo · #17 (**permalink**) 07-15-2008, 10:41 PM

Do not rely on mac addy filtering if you are running os x or any flavor of linux/*nix. Spoofing the mac addy is a simple command in the shell. ipconfig can change the mac addy on any network card on the computer.

danmpem · #18 (**permalink**) 07-15-2008, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene_mingo

Do not rely on mac addy filtering if you are running os x or any flavor of linux/*nix. Spoofing the mac addy is a simple command in the shell. ipconfig can change the mac addy on any network card on the computer.

Wow, I didn't know that.

rjlynam · #19 (**permalink**) 07-15-2008, 11:42 PM

With 4 kids that are homeschooled, each with their own computer, I have a NAT router that, for the kids' computers, has everything blocked, except for what I specifically allow. This may be a royal pain at times, but my job is to protect my kids and I have not seen anything that is foolproof. SafeEyes is the best product I have implemented for customers, but it can certainly be annoying for novice users (parents, that is). One of the features of SafeEyes is the notification of web access for subordinate accounts.

I am not going to allow the kids to use IM and when email accounts get set up for the kids later on, they'll be the kind where only approved addresses are set.

Bottom line, I have to give an account for what goes on in my house, and knowing what I know about the presence of vulnerabilities, I can't, with a clear conscience, let my kids run free on a computer, even in a commons area of the house.

I'll just tell the kids "yeah, yeah, yeah, get over it, Pop doesn't allow you to walk out in the street blindfolded either, and you don't fuss about that !" if and when the complaining starts.

danmpem · #20 (**permalink**) 07-16-2008, 12:58 AM

What if the kids were to use a command line-only version of Linux, like Debian. They could write their reports, go online, and really do whatever they want. Web site filtering could be implemented, but with the command-line web browsing, the fear of really missing something would be lessened. You could lock out the root user, so your kids couldn't install a GUI or any other unwanted programs for that matter.

Just a thought.

gene_mingo · #21 (**permalink**) 07-16-2008, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danmpem

What if the kids were to use a command line-only version of Linux, like Debian. They could write their reports, go online, and really do whatever they want. Web site filtering could be implemented, but with the command-line web browsing, the fear of really missing something would be lessened. You could lock out the root user, so your kids couldn't install a GUI or any other unwanted programs for that matter.

Just a thought.

Offensive security auditing is a hobby of mine. I play around with several versions of BSD and Linux. Each have their ups and downs. The one thing I do know is that if your kids want to bypass software security all they need to do is burn a bootable version of BSD or Linux. Most boot version come with GUI's on them and nice web browsers. Locking out root has no affect when you are running a bootable CD.

I really don't want to sound so negative about this. If your kid has physical access to the computer and is unsupervised, then it would only take two or three mins to have root access or admin passwords, depending on the OS you are using.

You can't use software alone to supervise the internet. It will fail.

If you want some really in depth information about what is currently being used to break windows vista/xp or BSD/Linux, send me a PM and I will steer you towards some information on the topic.

danmpem · #22 (**permalink**) 07-16-2008, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene_mingo

Offensive security auditing is a hobby of mine. I play around with several versions of BSD and Linux. Each have their ups and downs. The one thing I do know is that if your kids want to bypass software security all they need to do is burn a bootable version of BSD or Linux. Most boot version come with GUI's on them and nice web browsers. Locking out root has no affect when you are running a bootable CD.

I really don't want to sound so negative about this. If your kid has physical access to the computer and is unsupervised, then it would only take two or three mins to have root access or admin passwords, depending on the OS you are using.

You can't use software alone to supervise the internet. It will fail.

If you want some really in depth information about what is currently being used to break windows vista/xp or BSD/Linux, send me a PM and I will steer you towards some information on the topic.

Yeah, that was a good chunk of the subtext in my password crack comment above. It sounds like good ol' supervision is going to be the thing that comes throught here, no matter what generation we're talking about.

Broadus · #23 (**permalink**) 07-19-2008, 03:14 PM

We use integrity.com's dynamic web filtering, basically turning over the computer's web interaction to Integrity. We don't have to create a password on the computer or anything like that. Everything is filtered through Integrity's server. If a site is mistakenly blocked or allowed, it can be reported and Integrity will follow up on it. Like all filtering software, it's not perfect, but it's quite good. There's is no way I would have a computer with internet access and not have filtering software. Maybe I'm just weaker than you guys, but I don't trust myself.

Bill

skellam · #24 (**permalink**) 07-19-2008, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gene_mingo

I really don't want to sound so negative about this. If your kid has physical access to the computer and is unsupervised, then it would only take two or three mins to have root access or admin passwords, depending on the OS you are using.

You can't use software alone to supervise the internet. It will fail.

I think you hit the nail on the head. In general, if someone has physical access to a computer, then security safeguards are very difficult to uphold (impossible if the attacker has sufficient technical expertise).

I personally think that constant supervision of children while on the internet along with placing the computer in a public area of the household is the best way to go (Along with usual Christian parenting of teaching the children the depravity of sin and temptation and exhorting them to guard themselves against it).

I suppose the one way that would be a possibility would be to have only the monitor and keyboard available (with the rest of the computer locked in an inaccessible cabinet) and have some sort of locked down kiosk mode that severely limits what can be accessed (a filtered web browser and other needed applications).

Preparing our children to face these temptations is the best approach since they will obviously not always be under our supervision. One of our extended family's pastor recently was removed from the pulpit for surfing internet pornography on the church computer system for many years before it came to light. Surprisingly, the church had no filtering software installed, but it likely wouldn't have made a difference.