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Spiritual Warfare Discussions related to the believer's struggles with the devil, the world and the flesh (1 John 2:15)
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2007, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BobVigneault View Post
Ouch, ouch my friend. Well, if it was up to me to choose I guess I'll take the mental problem for myself but I do hope you're wrong. Of course I've seen the modern manifestations that USE mental problems and bad theology as well.


Seriously, is it possible to hear demons without actually seeing them?
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Old 10-09-2007, 10:32 AM
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beej6;

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I will be the exception to the rule here - I know I am not the only Reformed mental health professional in existence, but it's probably a smaller club than the Reconstructionists at this point. Some of you may believe I am literally playing devil's advocate.
I believe you would be correct, it is a small club.

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I don't believe in demon possession, though as pointed out above, it is theoretically possible in cultures or peoples that have not yet heard the Gospel.
Why wouldn't it possible in societies that have heard the gospel?

I guess, I'm questioning more what makes us think that just because many here in the west don't acknowledge it as possible--automatically means it's not possible.

Could it be more, that because so many don't acknowledge the possibility at all, because we have the gospel, that they won't/don't even consider the possiblity?

And why does it make one Charismatic because they believe demon possession is still possible today? Have so many forgotten our battle is not against flesh and blood?

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places].

I seen a commercial the other night for a new show coming out about those who claim to communicate with the dead--isn't that a spirit of divination? And these people aren't in a mental hospital they are on national TV, making a name for themselves.

Act 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:

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There is a much more simple explanation of the evils responsible for our behavior - sin. Is that talked about much in mental hospitals? Depends on the person. I have spoken with both Christians and non-Christians about the idea of sin (e.g. rebellion), but I wouldn't begin there with a person who may not even be in their right mind to start.
I'm curious, what is their 'right' mind? If they are lost, isn't their 'right' mind bound in sin? (just asking)

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I would separate demon possession from belief in the occult - that certainly is present. Maybe I am too concrete and shouldn't separate the two. I suppose by 'demon possession' I mean the classic person who appears to be so out of control of their behavior, as someone high on PCP. Substance abuse itself is so prevalent, which is yet another manifestation of sin.
What would be the out of control behavior?

schizophrenic? emotional blunting, intellectual deterioration, social isolation, disorganized speech and behavior, delusions, and hallucinations.

If I look at the description of this disease..I see..things which all deal with a lack of the Holy Spirit and the fruits thereof...Love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, self-control, faith, meekness...

They may not be able to think clearly.
They may not know the difference between what is real and what is not real.
They may have trouble managing emotions.
They may have a hard time making decisions.
They may not relate well to other people.

They may hear or see things that are not there.
They may feel as if they are being watched.
They may experience a change in self-care or personal appearance.
They may experience a change in personality.
They may feel angry or fearful toward loved ones.
They may act in ways that are strange or out of place.
They may develop an extreme focus on religion or the occult.

Looking at the second list, hearing/seeing things which are not there, could it be a demon they are hearing and seeing? Could it be a demon that is watching them? could it be the demonic forces bringing about the personality changes, also causing them to act in ways that are strange or out of place?

If they are demon possessed what might their appearance become?

So why shouldn't/couldn't we consider it to at least be a possibility?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2007, 11:21 AM
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During one of the so-called 'deliverance' sessions involving one of my daughters a voice spoke to me that only I heard telling me to stop the other's from praying.

Someday I should post some of the experiences and let you guys figure out what was going on.

In this particular instance, a lady who was supposedly 'sensitive' to spirits felt that a demon had attached itself to an internal organ in my daughter. She named off different organs while the pastor and another friend and my self had our hands on my daughter. The pastor would speak to the demon that was attached to said organs. When he addressed the demon attached to her kidneys my daughter screamed a horrible scream and flew up off of the couch. The three of us tried to hold her down. She sounded like she was being torn in half. I tried to comfort her but she continued to scream. Finally she grabbed both sides of my face and her whole countenance changed, her eyes met mine, only it didn't seem like my daughters eyes at all, and a voice said, "Stop them, you must stop them". I heard it clearly though her lips never moved. We quit at that point until a later date.

I've said before, I don't believe the deliverance was doing anything. The demons do these things just to keep us in the 'game'.

It was at a later attempt that the pastor was going through the house anointing the door posts with oil and praying a 'hedge' in each room that I saw the face again. My daughter from the previous 'deliverance' would turn and look at me and her face would change to an evil grin. This became a tip off that the demon was moving to another room. The craziest thing was, my other daughter had never shown any sign of demonization and was just staying out of the way. As we began to pray for my tormented daughter she finally relaxed and appeared to be at peace. I looked up the stairs and my other daughter now had that same evil grin on her face. Over the course of the next hour it kept jumping back and forth between them and would always broadcast the jump with that same turn of the head and evil grin. When we finally cornered it, my daughter who had never been plagued, had place glasses of water around her bed and sprinkled herbs on her bed, she sat in the middle and she had drawn pentagrams on both her hands. When we asked her why she said it was to keep evil spirits away.

This daughter had never shown any interest in the occult or magick or anything similar. Now, how do you explain this?

These are just a couple of countless experiences we had. We were not pentecostals or given over to emotionalism and we certainly weren't looking for demons behind every shadow.


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Originally Posted by KMK View Post
Seriously, is it possible to hear demons without actually seeing them?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2007, 12:44 PM
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I confess i do not find humor in the actions of Satan's legions. My humor is reserved for the idea that a demon is behind every sinful action of every human being.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2007, 02:02 PM
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Bob, I literally could not get rid of goosebumps during the ENTIRE reading of your post.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2007, 03:07 PM
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I've been attending the Fall Bible Conference at Emmanuel Baptist Church in Enid, Oklahoma this week. The speaker is Dr. Sam Storms. Tonight he will be speaking on the subject of "Praying for Deliverance and Defeat of the Devil." You can watch the service live via the internet (7:00 PM Central Time) at Emmanuel Live

I'm interested in hearing the perspective of Dr. Storms, who is both a charismatic and a strong Calvinist.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2007, 04:36 PM
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I'm interested in hearing the perspective of Dr. Storms, who is both a charismatic and a strong Calvinist.
Whoa! Isn't that like a square circle???
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2007, 05:52 PM
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Whoa! Isn't that like a square circle???
Maybe. Dr. Storms is very much in the same vein as John Piper and D. A. Carson, both of whom are Refomed and continuationists.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobVigneault View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Mike Kear View Post
I'm interested in hearing the perspective of Dr. Storms, who is both a charismatic and a strong Calvinist.
Whoa! Isn't that like a square circle???
Are you aware of this organization? http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2007, 12:19 PM
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Are you aware of this organization? Sovereign Grace Ministries
Indeed! C.J. Mahaney is also one of the four guys in Together for the Gospel
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