I was asked by a kid the other day about demon possession -- he wanted to know if it was real -- so ofcourse I told him it was real, but I have had something on my mind since he asked the question. Why, in the gospels, is demon possession not all that uncommon, and today we hardly ever see cases of demon possesion. At first I thought that maybe demon possession did not happen all that often in the gospels. However the Gospels basically cover a three year period of Jesus life (with the exception of his birth and the passage in Luke when he was twelve), and Jesus encounters and casts out several demons during this time (according to their account so did the seventy that Jesus sent out). Anyway, what do you guys think? Are demon possessions still as common as they were? If they are, why does the church as a whole not encounter these demon possessed people? If they are not, why are they not?

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"If there is one maverick molecule in the universe, then God is not sovereign." -RC Sproul-
James Baird
Fellowship of Grace (member)
BA in Christian Studies with emphasis in Historical Theology and Philosophy

The argument that credible theologians follow is that during special moments in history where God acts directly by manifesting His sovereign power, He willingly allows for the manifestation of demonic powers to glorify Himself while vanquishing them. I tend to agree with this, since we see during the time of Moses whereby God wrought great signs and wonders we likewise see the counterfeit which deceived the heathen nations manifesting itself likewise in Pharaoh's court. The same goes for the time of Jesus who is the ultimate prophet in the line of Moses. More knowledgeable people can expound on this.

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~Keon Garraway~ Brooklyn, NY Member of Franklin Square OPC

Love for God demonstrated by the love for our children in giving them a God centered education is the only hope for our country. by David Morrow
Pslam 71:20 [Thou], which hast shewed me great and sore troubles, shalt quicken me again, and shalt bring me up again from the depths of the earth.

Ditto above. The time of Jesus was a special time, when Satan was working his hardest to discredit Christ. God also "allowed" Satan a little extra rope to hang himself, while Jesus showed his authority over demonic powers.

Another explanation that I have heard is that we do have as much demon possession today. But we explain it as psychological disorders and medicate the possessed and put them in asylums.

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They are in politics now.

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For the sake of the Name,

John Hill
Faith Community - Woodstock, Ga
Adopted. Husband for 13 years. Father of 5 children.
http://faithcommunitychurch.org- My home church
Rocky Top, you'll always be, home sweet home to me.

Good one brother!

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Psa 55:16 As for me, I will call upon God; and the LORD shall save me.
Psa 55:17 Evening, and morning, and at noon, will I pray, and cry aloud: and he shall hear my voice.
James Farley
Husband of Melissa and father of Ann.
Members of Redeemer Church ARP, Blacksburg Va.
http://www.redeemerblacksburg.org/

I believe this to be true. We are one of the most medicated, I dare say, overmedicated people in the world.

Well, that too!

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Ivan R. Schoen, B.A., M.A., M.L.I.S.
Pastor of Maranatha Baptist Church (SBC)
Poplar Grove, IL, USA
http://maranatha-sbc.org

Demons can afford to be more overt in animistic cultures. This is why we hear so many stories from missionaries. Spiritual warfare takes on a much more subtle style in technological societies.

There definitely was more activity during Chirst's incarnation and ministry. Take a look at Luke 2 but try and step away for the Christmas card imagery.

This was not a ceremonial group of spirit beings, this was an enormous regiment of warriors. There was a military operation going on. We sing "Silent Night" but the fact that the Father dispatched a multitude of warriors indicates that something big was going on in the spirit realm. If I were a shepherd, I would be impressed if just one angel showed up. Three would be mind boggling. To insure that the insertion of the God-baby took place in space and time required a huge army of the most powerful fighters in creation.

This, to me, is an indication of the increased spiritual activity that was just then hitting the world and would continue until the church foundations were set in place.

Amazingly Jesus told Pilate as preparations for his execution were being made -

There's a picture, the hordes of demons had a plan in place and were carrying it out while 60,000 angels stood still with their swords sheathed, just watching.

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Bob Vigneault C.O.L, L.E., G.E, Dr.O.P., O.U.T.
The Heartbeat of Heaven (blog)
Deacon/Christ Presbyterian Church, Janesville, WI OPC www.christ-opc.org

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

OR...they all went to LAW school....

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Jim
An Elder, Harvest Reformed Church (RCUS),Minot, ND
http://www.harvestreformedchurch.org/
http://tbftgoggi.wordpress.com/

Upon a life I did not live; upon a death I did not die, Another's death, Another's life, I'd rest my soul eternally
Omnia dicta fortiora,si dicta Latina
Si vis pacem, para bellum

Heh! I resemble that remark.

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Raymond Victor Bottomly
Providence Reformed Baptist Church, Tacoma, WA

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Demon possession recedes with the expansion of Christianity. As Christ conquers the land, demons flee. I will see if I can find some quotes later and post them.

Christ's expansion also causes magic to cease. From Athanasius, On the Incarnation:

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Scott Roberts
Ruling Elder, Lakeside Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Southlake, Texas

Cool quote Scott, I hadn't seen that before. Thanks.

While attending The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, I had three professors share that in their opinion, they had personally encountered a demon possessed person (three separate encounters). One prof. was in Latin America. Another prof. was in South America. I don't remember where the third prof. was, but it was a third world country.

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Bobby Gawthrop, V.D.M.
licensed, ordained SBC, licensed PCA
Ph.D. student (Whitefield Theological Seminary)
"Every minister in those days had a V.D.M. degree: Verbum Dei Minister. When, therefore, I became a teacher of apologetics it was natural for me to think, not only of my Th.M. and my Ph.D., but above all of my V.D.M. The former degrees were but means whereby I might be true to the latter degree." Cornelius Van Til

We must guard against judging the activity of the demonic solely on our own experiences in the Christianized west. It would stand to reason that with more preaching there would be less demonic activity. That means that areas with less preaching would have greater demonic activity, no?

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http://www.villagecommunitychurch.org/


"Preparing a sermon is like cooking a meal. You need pots and pans and utensils, but you don't bring them out to the table where people are eating." Derek Thomas


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Yes, that is the idea. That explains why reputable people come back from mission work with credible reports of demonic possession and activity and yet we see so little of the dramatic sorts here.

My theory for why we were so targeted is because of my extended family's involvement in the occult. My dad and uncles, aunts and grandmother were all faith healers. There was divination, pornography, adultery, divorce. A hellish heritage that I vowed would stop with me and my family but I believe the numerous invitations and family sins lead to the demonic attack on my wife and especially on my two daughters.

I was not reformed in my thinking and really believed that Satan won some days and Jesus won other days depending on whether or not the saints were praying (got that from Frank Peretti, Neal Anderson, Mark Buber.)

While everything happens in accordance with God's decrees, from an earthly, or secondary cause, perspective, some demons cannot be defeated apart from prayer and fasting. Mark 9:29.

I like the explanation above regarding medication and incarceration in psychiatric institutions. I think there is plenty of demon possession in the west, but we use chemical restraints (the clinical terminology) to bind those who appear, that or electro- or insulin-shock "therapy" to so scramble the nervous system that what is in the soul cannot be expressed.

There are many tormented souls who pine away in misery in the caves of the psych wards. May God have mercy on them.

Especially in the 60s (or even in the present) drug cultures where psychedelic / sorcerous potions were ingested, there were numerous cases of such satanic invasion of people. The drug-use realm (note I include grass despite some folks at PB denying it) can be called "the satanic wavelength". We open the door of our spirits to that realm and those things may come in!

No doubt at all that in primitive societies it is more openly prevalent

We legalize drugs and we will see more of it.

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Steve Rafalsky
Elder, International Evangelical Church (Reformed)
Limassol, Cyprus

"I am set for the defense of the gospel" (Philippians 1:17)

"Strengthened with all might, according to His glorious
power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness..." (Colossians 1:11)

Blog: A Great and Terrible Love

Interesting bit of wisdom from 'the hoary head'.

I'd add (and this is really nothing more than a hunch) that the obsession with UFOs and alien abductions are related too. Maybe the "repressed memory" phenomenon recovered by hypnosis is similar. I sometimes think that the little aliens are merely recycled trolls and fairies from an earlier age. When people get immersed into odd and mysterious things, absent from the shield and protection of faith, odd things may well come to them.

I thought the Reformed idea for there not being people possessed by demons was that the devil is bound. But, maybe this is just from the Amillinialism view of eschatology?

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Erick Bohndorf, Redeemer Presbyterian PCA
http://qayaqtraveler.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/pr...90&ref=profile
Here is what I have seen to be good and fitting: to eat, to drink and enjoy oneself in all one’s labor in which he toils under the sun during the few years of his life which God has given him; for this is his reward. Ecclesiastes

I'm of the interpretation that Satan 'bound' means that he cannot deceive entire nations as he did before he was bound.

I heard Pastor William Harrell of Immanuel Presbyterian Church Norfolk VA discribe Satan being bound this way. Immagine a big dog on a chain and that chain is secured to a post in the ground. The dog still has a "circle of influence" but the chain will not allow the dog beyond that.

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Donald Jacobs
Roanoke VA.
Covenant Reformed Episcopal Church.

Cum vero infirmor tunc potens sum.

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-JD

Just don't go bashing Big Foot. He's for REAL!

No, I'd never bash Big Foot. He's too big!

I once apparently caused a Big Foot scare, though. It was in Butte Montana, my first year of college, winter, and I decided to leave my dorm to camp on the hill above Montana Tech. It was 40 below zero and I had a huge Air Force surplus down sleeping bag strapped to my back and home-made snowshoes for the hike.

As I climbed the hill, dogs started barking and lights from some houses came on. People peered out into the darkness but it was too cold for anyone to come out. That night the wind picked up and blew snow onto my tracks.

So I came down the next morning for an uneventful breakfast in the dorm cafeteria. The day after that, however, the Montana Standard had a local news item about a Big Foot sighting in the area. It showed a picture of my tracks heading up the hill.

I kept quiet.

Too funny.

I was reading this today and thought about this thread.

Matt 13:24,25

The wicked one sows his seed in the cover of darkness. I wonder as our nation plunges itself deeper and deeper into darkness if we will see a rise in demonic activity.

They were always there, they simply never left, remember the pigs Christ cast demons into? They were politicians.

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:detective:
Travis Speegle
Redeemer Presbyterian, PCA (Waco, Tx)
Pacific Cross Roads, PCA (Los Angeles, CA)


"When it comes to trustworthy theologians one can usually honor the rule of thumb that the deader the better."-Dr. John Hannah, DTS (of all places)

I have heard it said that in the West we see little direct demonic activity because Satan has many other ways of binding people in our "free" society.

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Donnie MacLeod
Crossroads Presbyterian Fellowship (PCA), Maplewood, MO
MDiv Student Covenant Theological Seminary

You filled my heart with greater joy
than others may have found
As they rejoiced at harvest time,
when grain and wine abound.Ps 4:7, Sing Psalms 2003

Aren't the Catholic church exorcists taking care of the demons? Wasn't there a movie?

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How often have you wondered why Christ should set His heart upon such a one as you! --Octavius Winslow

Lon Wadkins (Jesup, Iowa)
New Covenant Fellowship, OPC
Independence, Iowa

Um, is it just an odd coincidence that that last post of yours was your 666th? Get me an old priest and a young priest!

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Kevin, husband of a truly angelic woman, and father to ten.
Zion United Reformed Church of Sheffield
Ontario, Canada

Hmmmmm, somebody get a hold of Lon and tell him to post anything. A hello, the weather report, I don't care just post something.

You may or may not find the following post helpful. I think there was a definite reason for an unusual stirring up of demonic activity in the days of our Lord's flesh, as well as afterward in the ministry of the apostles.

I need a definition of Demon Possession

DTK

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Sola Scriptura est norma normans non normata
D. T. King, pastor
Christ Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Elkton, Maryland
Augustine (354-430): Therefore what He [i.e., Christ] has deigned to speak to us, we ought to believe that He meant us to understand. But if we do not understand He, being asked, gives understanding, who gave His Word unasked. NPNF1: Vol. VII, Tractates on John, Tractate XXII, §1.

I would say that the most important thing about the demon possession portion of the Gosple's is to understand why they are there in the first place. Obviously God allowed them to happen in order to teach us somthing about Christ. Without getting into all the specifics I would say the main point to them is to show us the power of Christ over evil.
As to the question of modern manifestations I am VERY sceptical of them to say the least.

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Joe
Member
Providence Reformed Baptist Chuch, Toledo Ohio
2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith 1689

And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live. Ezk 16:6

Ouch, ouch my friend. Well, if it was up to me to choose I guess I'll take the mental problem for myself but I do hope you're wrong. Of course I've seen the modern manifestations that USE mental problems and bad theology as well.

Well i edited my first post about 2 minutes after I put it up since I didnt want to insult anybody, however you quoted before my edit went through .

To be honest I still think 99.99% of people that claim to have seen this stuff are probably just being caught up in the hype so to speak, but I should have chosen my original words more carefully so as not to insult my brothers in the Lord which is why I edited. My apologies if I insulted you.

Not insulted at all Joe. I won't share a beer with just anyone my friend. So if I give you the icon, that means I'd gladly sit down and share a beer with you. Of course if you do not imbibe then those are two frosty mugs of sweet tea. This is a tricky topic and we must be cautious in approaching it. Your skepticism is certainly a cautious and therefore a safe approach and most usefull in 99% of the stories we hear. As we get outside of western culture and parts of Lancaster, PA that % drops pretty quickly.

Hehe, just saw this Bob.

I don't know why people think demon possession isn't alive and well here in America today..
we have many who have moved here from other countries who are deep into occult practices..
that bring these things with them.

but even looking at all the false teachers that abound in so-called churches today, these men may not be
physically possessed by demons..they are certainly being influenced by demonic forces.

and I agree with the others who say that many of these people may be locked up in mental hospitals,
but doctors today are so far from Christ, trusting in their drug's and their 'worldly' knowledge they are
blinded to it, instead of callling things sin, they call them mental disorders, or diseases..

How many people here actually go visit the mentally ill in these hospitals? How many have actually been to one?

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Bobbi Clark
Covenant Member
Pinewood Pres. (PCA) Middleburg

When I kept Silent, My bones wasted away through my groaning all day long. Psalm 32:3

I will be the exception to the rule here - I know I am not the only Reformed mental health professional in existence, but it's probably a smaller club than the Reconstructionists at this point. Some of you may believe I am literally playing devil's advocate.

I don't believe in demon possession, though as pointed out above, it is theoretically possible in cultures or peoples that have not yet heard the Gospel. There is a much more simple explanation of the evils responsible for our behavior - sin. Is that talked about much in mental hospitals? Depends on the person. I have spoken with both Christians and non-Christians about the idea of sin (e.g. rebellion), but I wouldn't begin there with a person who may not even be in their right mind to start.

I would separate demon possession from belief in the occult - that certainly is present. Maybe I am too concrete and shouldn't separate the two. I suppose by 'demon possession' I mean the classic person who appears to be so out of control of their behavior, as someone high on PCP. Substance abuse itself is so prevalent, which is yet another manifestation of sin.

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BJ Mora
Grace OPC, Modesto, CA
Reformed & Presbyterian Churches & Denominations in North America