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Spiritual Warfare discuss Rebuking the Devil in the The Christian Walk forums; Are we to do it? The answer seems "no" - but rather to appeal to God to do it for us. Can I build a ...

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    Pergamum's Avatar
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    Rebuking the Devil

    Are we to do it? The answer seems "no" - but rather to appeal to God to do it for us.

    Can I build a case for this from Zech 3 where the Angel of the Lord (the Pre-incarnate Christ?) rebukes the devil?


    Andalso what about Jude?
    -----Added 11/29/2008 at 07:59:14 EST-----
    no takers?
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    Can we rebuke "in the name of" God or Christ, etc?
    Tim Lindsay
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    In short, I don't see rebuking of Satan as a normative practice for us. It seems to me the instances in the Scriptures of Satan being rebuked come from those whose direct knowledge of Satan's presence surpasses ours. It would be futile, I'd think, to utter any sort of rebuke to Satan if he personally is not involved in the situation that we are dealing with. If Satan isn't in our presence troubling us, then he can't be rebuked. I would be concerned about rebuking Satan in an instance in which he is not involved at all, but in fact the cause of our troubles and difficulties is God Himself in chastisement. What a horrible mistake to make!

    Since Satan is a finite creature, it doesn't seem likely that most of us have ever directly encountered him in any way, either. I suspect he's got better things to be doing than personally giving me a hard time.

    Rather, I think pleas to God our Father for mercy, strength and grace to support us in our time of need, are right and needful for times in which we are facing troubles. Those pleas we know are heard - and as His children we know that they are either answered with deliverance or with sufficient grace for the day.
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    Can 2 Cor 12:7 give us insight to the question...

    So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, an angel of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.
    Larry Bray
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    What about using rebuking animals/ circumstances with "In the Name of Jesus"...
    For instance this women told me that she was taking a walk with her niece, when a huge pitbull came at her and she rebuked the dog in the name of Jesus. She said that dog turned around and ran off.


    Someone very close to me, also uses this term if the days is not going right. Such as "In the Name of Jesus I ask that you would bless my day, and I rebuke all of the demonic spirits..."

    Are these bibical principles?
    Last edited by sofarawaykisses; 12-08-2008 at 11:35 PM.

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    Good thing that dog knew English.
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    "If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
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    Rev. Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, ARP
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    ‎‎"Ministers of the Gospel, when dispensing the truths of God, must preach home to their own souls, as well as unto others. Sir's, we do not deliver truths or doctrines to you, wherein we ourselves have no manner of concern. No, our own souls are at the stake, and shall either perish or be saved eternally, as we receive or reject these precious truths which we deliver unto you. And truly, it can never be expected that we will apply the truths of God with any warmth or liveliness unto others, unless we first make a warm application thereof to our own souls. And if we do not feed upon these doctrines, and practise these duties, which we deliver to and inculcate upon you, though we preach unto others, we ourselves are but castaways." -- Ebenezer Erskine, "The Assurance of Faith", pg. 8

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    Quote Originally Posted by sofarawaykisses View Post
    What about using rebuking animals/ circumstances with "In the Name of Jesus"...
    For instance this women told me that she was taking a walk with her niece, when a huge pitbull came at her and she rebuked the dog in the name of Jesus. She said that dog turned around and ran off.


    Someone very close to me, also uses this term if the days is not going right. Such as "In the Name of Jesus I ask that you would bless my day, and I rebuke all of the demonic spirits..."

    Are these bibical principles?
    If they were biblical principles then there would be examples set out for us in the Bible for these principles.

    Rebuking is different from petitioning the Lord through prayer.
    Our authority lies more in the preaching of the Gospel than it does in the rebuking of demons.

    As our weapons are spiritual in nature, we keep in mind that our sword is the Word of God. As we preach the Word of God the gates of Hell are destroyed and God's kingdom progresses.
    Larry Bray
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    Sofarawaykisses:


    WELCOME! I haven't yet got the chance to say hi! HOWDY! Nice to have you here.
    Pergamum


    "If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
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    If they were biblical principles then there would be examples set out for us in the Bible for these principles.

    Rebuking is different from petitioning the Lord through prayer.
    Our authority lies more in the preaching of the Gospel than it does in the rebuking of demons.

    As our weapons are spiritual in nature, we keep in mind that our sword is the Word of God. As we preach the Word of God the gates of Hell are destroyed and God's kingdom progresses.
    So what this lady was doing was petitioning in prayer? Maybe I should give you more of the context of the situation. I visited a youth group, and it was a women youth pastor. She was covering the basis how we need to have reverance for God, and her reasoning was that Christ died for us, also the fact that we can see how awesome God is in nature. Which I agree with. But from there she used the example listed above and then further stated that if we accept Jesus in our hearts, he will give us control over nature, because God made creatures for us. So therefore we are in control of the animals and what they are capable of doing.

    Peragum, thanks for the welcome :]
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofarawaykisses View Post
    So what this lady was doing was petitioning in prayer? Maybe I should give you more of the context of the situation. I visited a youth group, and it was a women youth pastor. She was covering the basis how we need to have reverance for God, and her reasoning was that Christ died for us, also the fact that we can see how awesome God is in nature. Which I agree with. But from there she used the example listed above and then further stated that if we accept Jesus in our hearts, he will give us control over nature, because God made creatures for us. So therefore we are in control of the animals and what they are capable of doing.
    One must get their understanding of God and the Christian religion from Scripture, not from mere reason or presumptions.

    Having control over nature is something that is done in witchcraft, but not in Christianity.

    Putting ourselves in a place of control is nothing short of kicking Jesus off the throne so that we can sit there.
    Larry Bray
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    Thats so true! I feel the same way, I could just not figure out how to put into words.
    Thank you.
    Amber Feller
    Member, First Baptist Church of Weeki Wachee Acres
    Spring Hill, FL

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    It seems difficult, to say the least, to "rebuke" something which we can neither see, nor truly sense, nor with which we can converse. I realize my experience is not normative for all the church, but I have never identified specifically where and when a demon/the devil is. When tried and tempted, I realize that this surely has something to do with the malice of the devil, and the principalities and powers of this world, the dominion of sin and death, but I would not even know how to converse with these things that I might rebuke them if I wanted to. Thus, all that I can do is to call upon the Lord and implore him to deliver me from the trials which beset me; and through a due use of the ordinary means, his grace will sustain me, and in his good time and manner, I shall be delivered or not.
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    It seems difficult, to say the least, to "rebuke" something which we can neither see, nor truly sense, nor with which we can converse. I realize my experience is not normative for all the church, but I have never identified specifically where and when a demon/the devil is. When tried and tempted, I realize that this surely has something to do with the malice of the devil, and the principalities and powers of this world, the dominion of sin and death, but I would not even know how to converse with these things that I might rebuke them if I wanted to. Thus, all that I can do is to call upon the Lord and implore him to deliver me from the trials which beset me; and through a due use of the ordinary means, his grace will sustain me, and in his good time and manner, I shall be delivered or not.

    Greatly put.
    Amber Feller
    Member, First Baptist Church of Weeki Wachee Acres
    Spring Hill, FL

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    No Longer A Libertine is offline. Inactive User
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    As a reformed christian I am cautious to cite satan's direct presence and participation but if there were any moment in my life where the EXTREME vibe of evil and perhaps his very personal up-close snarl were in my ear, it would've been in West Hollywood last summer; sodomites the nation over congregated to flaunt their rebellion with parades and get drunk and have orgies in the name of their fallen desires.

    New to LA I was ignorant of this satanic ritual and ventured into that part of town on the eve of excessive debauchery; I had never prayed audibly in public until that night but wickedness was literally in the air. it was to be felt and it was to be escaped from.

    I do not say this with sarcasm when I tell you I expected to see satan come around the corner twirling a baton as he prepared the parade to march.

    Because of the sheer density of evil, one so condensed it had an actual tangible spirit that ran through the unruly crowd, I am inclined to think the devil was in attendance that night.
    :detective:
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    I was consulting William Gurnall – the Christian in Complete Armour

    and Thomas Brooks – Precious Remedies against satan’s devices

    and I could not find any direct addressing or rebuking of the devil.

    II Corinthians 12:8 or Jude 9 seem to sustain that (imo)


    But I would appreciate if you could comment on eventual implications

    for demonology and for our spiritual warfare prayer of:


    Luke 10:1 and 17 : the commission of the seventy

    After these things the LORD appointed other seventy also, and sent them two and two

    before his face into every city and place, whither he himself would come. (...)

    And the seventy returned again with joy, saying,

    Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through Thy Name.




    And the eventual relation between

    the Lord Jesus quoting the Written Word of God to rebuke satan. Mathew 4:4-10

    But he answered and said, It is written

    Jesus said unto him, It is written again

    Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written



    and Ephesians 6: 17

    And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God

    Scripture selections and emphasis mine


    Should we not then pray and quote scripture when tempted or oppressed?


    Where God is on one side, you may be sure to find the devil on the other. William Gurnall


    A soul, therefore, when deprived of the word of God, is given up unarmed to the devil for destruction.

    Now, then, will not the first machination of the enemy be to wrest the sword from the soldier of Christ?


    John Calvin’s letter to Cardinal Sadoleto.

    1539
    Last edited by discipulo; 12-12-2008 at 03:39 AM. Reason: .
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    Quote Originally Posted by larryjf View Post
    Having control over nature is something that is done in witchcraft, but not in Christianity.
    I think that depends on what your definition of 'control' is. We, humans, are set over the creation by our Lord, and He will reckon with us, based on how we handled it. All direct mystical control is... weird, at least. I would very much doubt it being of the Lord. On the other hand, the Lord himself does control the entire creation, and Christians are invited to come to the throne of grace to ask what they need; God can hear our prayer, if He, in His wisdom, thinks it is beneficial to us, and thus we could indirectly control all of creation.

    Quote Originally Posted by toddpedlar View Post
    Since Satan is a finite creature, it doesn't seem likely that most of us have ever directly encountered him in any way, either. I suspect he's got better things to be doing than personally giving me a hard time.
    I don't think that that is entirely true. Satan is not omnipresent, but: "He asked him, What [is] thy name? And he answered, saying, My name [is] Legion: for we are many." (Mark 5:9)

    Can the devil work in us? I am currently reading a book by Petrus Immens, a Dutch divine in Middelburg (Zealand) some centuries ago. It is called "De Godvruchtige Avondmaalganger", which means, "The Godly Partaker of the Lords Supper". At a certain point, he is dealing with why many of Gods children have difficulties in attaining to the assurance of faith, and he gives about two dozen reasons and then shows that they are no reason to doubt the veracity of ones conversion and faith. I have translated one of those, which partly deals with the devil - I will spare you the Dutch, unless someone requests it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Petrus Immens, The Godly Partaker of the Lords Supper
    8. If a troubled one says: I certainly have reason to doubt my state [in Christ], for I dare not tell what horrible thoughts arise in my heart, even most often when I am going about the holy duties. For your consolation I will answer:
    a. This is not uncommon amongst the Lords people. Many eminent saints have undergone and complained about this. Do not regard it as strange if you undergo this.
    b. Learn to see the difference between thoughts that come from your own heart, and those that are thrown in by Satan as fiery arrows. It is true that our heart is evil enough to throw up many sinful thoughts, and therefore it is hard to know the difference. Even though that may be so, I think that one can best know them by this: when such thoughts come in the soul unexpected, when one is busy doing something entirely different [from the sinful thought], and they cause an immediate fear and trembling, and [the soul] fights, prays and strives against them. If you encounter this, regard it to be from Satan, and more a suffering in you, than that it should be marked as a sin.
    And then he continues to say that wandering thoughts during worship are sins, but should not be cause to doubt of ones state in Christ.

    I translated this mainly, because I have had some troubles with this for a few weeks myself; but after I had prayed for it the Lord took it away remarkably soon, for which I have cause to be truly thankful.

    If you wish, I can translate a part in which he discerns the devils acting as well: in the case when a believer or pastor or whosoever does a good deed, and afterwards, his heart condemns him or suggests to him that he has done it for worldly ends. Immens says that that is the devil trying to stop us from doing good work, provided the thoughts are sudden and hateful to the soul, as he argued above.

    My own conclusion to all this would be that the devil can try to influence us, and that praying is better than rebuking, because of what the Lord promised with regard to prayer, and because rebuking seems to depend to much on the believer, and not enough on the One in whom we must believe. Praise be to Him for His eternal grace and endless mercy!
    Last edited by Rocketeer; 12-12-2008 at 07:16 AM. Reason: Clarification
    Co
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    Let the righteous smite me, it shall be a kindness, and let him reprove me, it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities. Psalm 141:5

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    sorry - this is a parenthesis

    Hi Co

    Thank you for your very relevant post.

    Since you are deepening that particular matter, I found this book very helpful myself

    also with a great chapter on De Nadere Reformatie (the 2nd Dutch Reformation)


    Quest for Full Assurance: The Legacy of Calvin & His Successors

    Joel R. Beeke

    Paperback: 395 pages
    ISBN-10: 0851517455
    Publisher: Banner of Truth 1999


    Synopsis on link below:

    Reformation Heritage Books
    Last edited by discipulo; 12-12-2008 at 06:00 AM. Reason: .
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    there is no will nor running by which we can prepare the way for our salvation, it is wholly of the Divine Mercy Jean Calvin Institutes II . V. 17

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    Do these verses have any bearing on the discussion?

    Eph. 4:27--"neither give place to the devil."

    Eph. 6:11-12-- "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

    James 4:7--"Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you."

    1 Peter 5:8--"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. Resist him, steadfast in the faith."

    Is resisting different than rebuking?
    Kim G
    Mitchell Road Presbyterian Church
    Greenville, SC

    Teach me Your way, O LORD; I will walk in Your truth; Unite my heart to fear Your name.
    Psalm 86:11

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    Remember, we can always God for help, even in a panic!

    Matthew 14

    24But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary.

    25And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.

    26And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.

    27But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.

    28And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.

    29And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.

    30But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.

    31And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

    32And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.
    Scott
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    discipulo's Avatar
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    James 4:7 resist is very much the same of Ephesians 6 stand or withstand

    The greek word basis is the same Histemi

    Ephesians 6:11-14

    Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

    For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers,

    against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

    Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God,

    that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

    Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;




    So the armour is mostly defensive - to resist - Anthistemi - the same word in I Peter 5:9 resist him

    Resisting has to do with that standing against the devil - (imo) that is not rebuking

    but mostly not surrender to his temptation.


    But one part of the Armour is offensive –and that is the Sword – the Word of God

    Using it – by addressing and rebuking the devil – is my question on my last post.
    Last edited by discipulo; 12-12-2008 at 02:23 PM. Reason: .
    César Proença

    there is no will nor running by which we can prepare the way for our salvation, it is wholly of the Divine Mercy Jean Calvin Institutes II . V. 17

    Reformed Churches in The Netherlands (liberated) http://www.gkv.nl/main.asp?intTreeviewID=954

    Igreja Reformada em Massamá Portugal http://www.igrejareformada.pt

    Church Creek Presbyterian, PCA, Charleston, SC. Visiting member http://www.church-creek.org

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    Kim G's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by discipulo View Post
    Using [the Word of God] – by addressing the devil – is my question on my last post.
    I guess that is my question as well, only you put it better.
    Kim G
    Mitchell Road Presbyterian Church
    Greenville, SC

    Teach me Your way, O LORD; I will walk in Your truth; Unite my heart to fear Your name.
    Psalm 86:11

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    I think the Reformers generally recognized we struggle against the world, the flesh, and the devil.

    No question there is much evil in this world- and as one grows in Christ, one will see it more (including in one's own life). All sin is evil and much of it comes from within us, the remnant of the fall inside that seeks other than God; a fallen world system that seeks other than God.

    The Lord's Prayer

    Matthew 6:13 (New International Version)

    13And lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from the evil one
    As a general biblical proposition, I don't think we are given supernatural authority as individual Christians to perform supernatural fetes or miracles such as rebuking forces, the weather, etc. However, we can certainly ask God to do it for us!
    Scott
    PCA
    North Carolina


    Post Tenebras Lux; "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." - Revelation 21:4

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    Quote Originally Posted by sofarawaykisses View Post
    What about using rebuking animals/ circumstances with "In the Name of Jesus"...
    For instance this women told me that she was taking a walk with her niece, when a huge pitbull came at her and she rebuked the dog in the name of Jesus. She said that dog turned around and ran off.


    Someone very close to me, also uses this term if the days is not going right. Such as "In the Name of Jesus I ask that you would bless my day, and I rebuke all of the demonic spirits..."

    Are these biblical principles?
    I think the best thing to do in a situation like this is to go to the word of God and try to find a place where a person actually rebuked something in the name of Jesus. As far as I know there is no biblical evidence for rebuking animals and situations that come up "in the name of Jesus".

    If you think about it this makes perfect sense because animals and situations are NOT capable of accepting, rejecting or even understanding this kind of rebuke.

    Your best bet is to ask the person what scripture can be used to support this and then correct them rebuking the bad interpretation in the name of Jesus.
    Joe
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    2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith 1689

    And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live. Ezk 16:6

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    Joseph Ringling is offline. Puritanboard Freshman
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pergamum View Post
    Are we to do it? The answer seems "no" - but rather to appeal to God to do it for us.

    Can I build a case for this from Zech 3 where the Angel of the Lord (the Pre-incarnate Christ?) rebukes the devil?


    Andalso what about Jude?
    -----Added 11/29/2008 at 07:59:14 EST-----
    no takers?
    As Christians we don't have to "rebuke" the devil. The Spirit of Christ within us does it for us. The problem with people rebuking the devil in todays church, mostly modern charismatics, is that it tricks people into thinking there is a magic formula for stoping bad things from happening to you, and that the devil is behind all the bad. Would not Paul have "rebuked" the thorn in his flesh? As Calvinist we know as well as anyone about the providence of God. Things happen, good and bad. It can't all be blamed on the devil.


    1Peter 1:6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen[a] you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.


    Also consider Jude,8 Likewise also these dreamers defile the flesh, reject authority, and speak evil of dignitaries. 9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10 But these speak evil of whatever they do not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these things they corrupt themselves. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.
    Joseph Ringling
    Father to Joey, Jenna, and Timothy
    Janesville, WI

  26. #26
    Rangerus's Avatar
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    Here is a fellow Christian brother from our church who held the office of Worship Director for several years. He has since started a new ministry that focuses completely on Spiritual Warfare. The link to his web site is here: Johnny Sorrell

    I have heard him speak several times and find he uses some very interesting and thought provoking Bible based teachings on Warfare Praying, Applying the Armor of God, Praying for a Prodigal, and Generational Curses.

    Note to moderators: I'm not endorsing this, just passing on something I found.
    Rangerus
    Southern Baptist
    Falls City, TX
    1689 LBCF & BF&M 2000

  27. #27
    lynnie is offline. Puritanboard Senior
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    Do you mean a rebuke in prayer, or an exorcism?

    Jesus said we would cast out demons in His name and gave us that authority. I have missionary friends who have been to places where the natives slit the throat of an animal, collect the blood, drink a "communion" out of a common cup, and the hub says you watch the the people fall on the floor and start writhing around and their face contorts and they are so obviously demon possessed.

    They've done some casting out demons in their mission work. They are more typically evangelical than Reformed and I don't know all the details. Jesus called it "the children's bread" and cast demons out of the covenant people back in His day. I don't know all the subtle nuances of possession versus oppression, but some folks do believe but they still need an evil spirit rebuked and commanded to leave them.

    Luke13: 10On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, 11and a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. 12When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her, "Woman, you are set free from your infirmity." 13Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.
    14Indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, the synagogue ruler said to the people, "There are six days for work. So come and be healed on those days, not on the Sabbath."

    15The Lord answered him, "You hypocrites! Doesn't each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it out to give it water? 16Then should not this woman, a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has kept bound for eighteen long years, be set free on the Sabbath day from what bound her?"



    Pergamum, as I recall you deal with some very evil tribal situations, right? Yeah, if it was me I'd be asking God to move, begging him to deliver, and trusting that even Satan and evil spirits are His tool in his sovereign plan. They can't do a thing w/o Him allowing it. Personally I would not be doing rebuking of Satan in situations but I might be real wrong.

    But exorcisms of individual people who WANT freedom, have turned to Jesus Christ and repented of sin but have demonic oppression from their past witchcraft or whatever...yeah, go for it.

    My thinking on this subject is in a lot of flux. I think repenting from sin and bible study and sacraments and so forth can accomplish a great deal. I do not know exactly where and when the need to rebuke and cast out demons comes in. I have on a few occasions met Christians with physical problems that I thought might be from an evil spirit (Jesus rebuked a fever and it immediately left the person). Kind of an intuitive thing, you get this creepy feeling around them of a literal dark presence. But they always have so many sin and doctrine issues also.

    I think I'll go pray for you, and for the whole church as long as I am at it I sure don't have the answer. But exorcism is a responsibility of the church that you may need to deal with in your missionary calling.
    Lynnie

    Attending Maranatha Christian Fellowship

    Central NJ

  28. #28
    Iconoclast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pergamum View Post
    Are we to do it? The answer seems "no" - but rather to appeal to God to do it for us.

    Can I build a case for this from Zech 3 where the Angel of the Lord (the Pre-incarnate Christ?) rebukes the devil?


    Andalso what about Jude?
    -----Added 11/29/2008 at 07:59:14 EST-----
    no takers?
    Pergamum,
    From time to time we have heard of those who claim to rebuke,and bind satan/ If they have bound satan in Jesus name, How does he keep getting loose? Have they not bound him tight enough?
    Have you ever asked these persons how this happens
    Anthony D'Arienzo
    Hope Reformed Baptist Church:
    Medford, N.Y.
    All that die have not the plague, and all that perish eternally are not guilty of the same profligate sins.The covetous are excluded from the kingdom of God no less severely than fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, and thieves, 1 Corinthians 6:9,10.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iconoclast View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Pergamum View Post
    Are we to do it? The answer seems "no" - but rather to appeal to God to do it for us.

    Can I build a case for this from Zech 3 where the Angel of the Lord (the Pre-incarnate Christ?) rebukes the devil?


    Andalso what about Jude?
    -----Added 11/29/2008 at 07:59:14 EST-----
    no takers?
    Pergamum,
    From time to time we have heard of those who claim to rebuke,and bind satan/ If they have bound satan in Jesus name, How does he keep getting loose? Have they not bound him tight enough?
    Have you ever asked these persons how this happens
    I think those that claim to rebuke the devil are not "binding" him for good but just fencing their own property I guess.

    I am an optimistic amil believer...so how do I believe that Satan is bound at all during this millenium time in which we live?
    Pergamum


    "If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
    -- David Livingstone

  30. #30
    Iconoclast's Avatar
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    In the amill scheme satan is bound by God so that the gospel can spread worldwide through the word preached.
    In todays world all charasmatics and word of faith people claim to bind satan, at every turn, sometimes several times in the same service
    They do not mean it in an amill way. At least not those that i have spoken with.
    Anthony D'Arienzo
    Hope Reformed Baptist Church:
    Medford, N.Y.
    All that die have not the plague, and all that perish eternally are not guilty of the same profligate sins.The covetous are excluded from the kingdom of God no less severely than fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, and thieves, 1 Corinthians 6:9,10.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by lynnie View Post
    Do you mean a rebuke in prayer, or an exorcism?

    Jesus said we would cast out demons in His name and gave us that authority. I have missionary friends who have been to places where the natives slit the throat of an animal, collect the blood, drink a "communion" out of a common cup, and the hub says you watch the the people fall on the floor and start writhing around and their face contorts and they are so obviously demon possessed.

    They've done some casting out demons in their mission work. They are more typically evangelical than Reformed and I don't know all the details. Jesus called it "the children's bread" and cast demons out of the covenant people back in His day. I don't know all the subtle nuances of possession versus oppression, but some folks do believe but they still need an evil spirit rebuked and commanded to leave them.

    Luke13: 10On a Sabbath Jesus was teaching in one of the synagogues, 11and a woman was there who had been crippled by a spirit for eighteen years. She was bent over and could not straighten up at all. 12When Jesus saw her, he called her forward and said to her, "Woman, you are set free from your infirmity." 13Then he put his hands on her, and immediately she straightened up and praised God.
    14Indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, the synagogue ruler said to the people, "There are six days for work. So come and be healed on those days, not on the Sabbath."

    15The Lord answered him, "You hypocrites! Doesn't each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it out to give it water? 16Then should not this woman, a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has kept bound for eighteen long years, be set free on the Sabbath day from what bound her?"



    Pergamum, as I recall you deal with some very evil tribal situations, right? Yeah, if it was me I'd be asking God to move, begging him to deliver, and trusting that even Satan and evil spirits are His tool in his sovereign plan. They can't do a thing w/o Him allowing it. Personally I would not be doing rebuking of Satan in situations but I might be real wrong.

    But exorcisms of individual people who WANT freedom, have turned to Jesus Christ and repented of sin but have demonic oppression from their past witchcraft or whatever...yeah, go for it.

    My thinking on this subject is in a lot of flux. I think repenting from sin and bible study and sacraments and so forth can accomplish a great deal. I do not know exactly where and when the need to rebuke and cast out demons comes in. I have on a few occasions met Christians with physical problems that I thought might be from an evil spirit (Jesus rebuked a fever and it immediately left the person). Kind of an intuitive thing, you get this creepy feeling around them of a literal dark presence. But they always have so many sin and doctrine issues also.

    I think I'll go pray for you, and for the whole church as long as I am at it I sure don't have the answer. But exorcism is a responsibility of the church that you may need to deal with in your missionary calling.
    I have never addressed a demon or the devil in prayer; prayer is always directed to God and why do I need to speak to any but God?

    One man said he had a demon, so I prayed to God to deliver him...and he was healed (at least he reported as such and stayed in that state).

    But reading James, James says rebuke the devil and he will flee. So, did James advocate talking to demons?
    Pergamum


    "If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
    -- David Livingstone

  32. #32
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    James said resist the devil not rebuke did he not?
    Lee Johnston
    Church of Scotland
    B.D. Theology @ University of Glasgow

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