Luke 22:31-32 did Satan beg for Peter like he did Job in the OT?

Pergamum · #1 (**permalink**) 10-26-2008, 12:20 PM

Luke 22:31-32.
22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

American Standard "Satan hath demanded [permission] to sift you like wheat..."

The Williams translation " Satan has asked permission to sift all of you like wheat..."

The New International Version says, "Satan has asked to sift you as wheat..."

Beck translation reads, "...you know the devil has begged to have all of you to sift you like wheat..."

Could we see echoes of Job here, where Satan approached the throne of God and asked about Job? Can Satan even approach the throne since Christ?

***toddpedlar*** · #2 (**permalink**) 10-26-2008, 02:25 PM

I'm not sure we know whether Satan communicated with God on this or not; Scripture doesn't say. Rather, what is being reported is only the desire of Satan, which God clearly knows.

Further - side point here - it isn't Peter alone whom Christ said Satan wanted to sift as wheat... it was the whole of the disciples, as evidenced by the fact that "you" there is plural, as is reflected properly in some translations.

***fredtgreco*** · #3 (**permalink**) 10-26-2008, 02:31 PM

But the "you" in 21:32 is singular.

Zenas · #4 (**permalink**) 10-26-2008, 02:43 PM

Is your question whether Lucifer's petition in Job is a model for how he conducts all of his affairs of affliction?

***toddpedlar*** · #5 (**permalink**) 10-26-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

But the "you" in 21:32 is singular.

Yes, of course, hence the "thou"; but the OP subject spoke of the desire of satan for Peter (which desire is described in 21:31). 21:32 speaks of Peter's conversion and his coming to the aid, by grace reflected in his conversion, to his brothers (whom Satan desired to sift).

staythecourse · #6 (**permalink**) 10-26-2008, 02:49 PM

Perg, you are digging deep in understanding Satan. God bless your efforts in recognizing the enemy and his ways.

staythecourse · #7 (**permalink**) 10-26-2008, 02:54 PM

As for me, I believe Satan asked God the Father to crush Peter, information that the Son was privy to based on "All that the Father has told me I have made known to you."

Pergamum · #8 (**permalink**) 10-26-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zenas

Is your question whether Lucifer's petition in Job is a model for how he conducts all of his affairs of affliction?

I see a possible similar mode of attack.

But, I am sure that "all" affairs of affliction are not done this way (Satan is not omnipresent and he would always be asking 24/7), and I am not sure whether Satan can even ask or petition God for anything at this age....he seems to have fallen from heaven and cannot approach the throne like in Job's time...but, that is another thing I am trying to find out too if you got any thoughts on that one too?!?

***fredtgreco*** · #9 (**permalink**) 10-26-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

But the "you" in 21:32 is singular.

Yes, of course, hence the "thou"; but the OP subject spoke of the desire of satan for Peter (which desire is described in 21:31). 21:32 speaks of Peter's conversion and his coming to the aid, by grace reflected in his conversion, to his brothers (whom Satan desired to sift).

I know. I just find it curious that Satan desired to sift you (the apostles) but Christ prayed for you (Peter)

***toddpedlar*** · #10 (**permalink**) 10-26-2008, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredtgreco

But the "you" in 21:32 is singular.

Yes, of course, hence the "thou"; but the OP subject spoke of the desire of satan for Peter (which desire is described in 21:31). 21:32 speaks of Peter's conversion and his coming to the aid, by grace reflected in his conversion, to his brothers (whom Satan desired to sift).

I know. I just find it curious that Satan desired to sift you (the apostles) but Christ prayed for you (Peter)

Right... this passage has long interested me too, since I first took up the study of Greek and saw the difference. Two things come to mind here - 1) Peter has shown and will show that perhaps he is most vulnerable to Satan's advances - and thus Christ particularly prays for him; and 2) Christ is promising support through the Spirit to Peter, and exhorting him to care for those who have fallen prey to the sifting when it comes.

And going back on what I said earlier, now that I look at the Greek itself, it does in fact say that Satan asked - or demanded - to sift the disciples. Seems to me then that probably, though we have no details, there was some sort of communication as in Job's case.

staythecourse · #11 (**permalink**) 10-26-2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

I know. I just find it curious that Satan desired to sift you (the apostles) but Christ prayed for you (Peter)

Maybe all the apostles would have fallen if Peter had fallen. Since the keys were given to him and "on this rock I will build my church" applied to Peter. If he went, maybe it would have devastated the apostles and therefore the church so Jesus specifically prayed for him.

Pergamum · #12 (**permalink**) 10-26-2008, 03:37 PM

[quote=toddpedlar;485041][quote=fredtgreco;485038]

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddpedlar

And going back on what I said earlier, now that I look at the Greek itself, it does in fact say that Satan asked - or demanded - to sift the disciples. Seems to me then that probably, though we have no details, there was some sort of communication as in Job's case.

Yes, and this is causing me confusion because I had always assumed that Satan cannot now go before God to make such petitions....

.....but we do seem to have a Job-like situation here.

I had always assumed this:
--Satan rebelled, got kicked out of heaven and dwelt on earth, but was able to visit heaven.
---In the NT at some point satan was cast down out of heaven and no longer able to approach God,
---Then, as Gospel advances, his territory is further restricted,
---Finally, when Christ returns he is thrown into hell...

Do I need to revise this?

***Semper Fidelis*** · #13 (**permalink**) 10-26-2008, 04:13 PM

Perg,

I believe this quote answers the same: Quotes about Satan being under God's sovereignty

Nothing that the devils do is without God's permission. I believe the passages in Job and Luke are anthropomorphic language to help us understand a bit of this but the bottom line is that nothing happens apart from God's decree. This is to be the most blessed comfort to us:

Quote:

11. But when once the light of Divine Providence has illumined the
believer's soul, he is relieved and set free, not only from the extreme
fear and anxiety which formerly oppressed him, but from all care. For
as he justly shudders at the idea of chance, so he can confidently
commit himself to God. This, I say, is his comfort, that his heavenly
Father so embraces all things under his power--so governs them at will
by his nod--so regulates them by his wisdom, that nothing takes place
save according to his appointment; that received into his favour, and
entrusted to the care of his angels neither fire, nor water, nor sword,
can do him harm, except in so far as God their master is pleased to
permit. For thus sings the Psalm, "Surely he shall deliver thee from
the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. He shall
cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust; his
truth shall be thy shield and buckler. Thou shalt not be afraid for the
terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; nor for the
pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that
wasteth at noonday" &c. (Ps. 91:2-6). Hence the exulting confidence of
the saints, "The Lord is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do
unto me? The Lord taketh my part with them that help me." "Though an
host should encamp against me, my heart shall not fear." "Yea, though I
walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil."
(Ps. 118:6; 27:3; 23:4).

How comes it, I ask, that their confidence never fails, but just that
while the world apparently revolves at random, they know that God is
every where at work, and feel assured that his work will be their
safety? When assailed by the devil and wicked men, were they not
confirmed by remembering and meditating on Providence, they should, of
necessity, forthwith despond. But when they call to mind that the
devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are, in all directions, held
in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither
conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how much
soever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate,
unless in so far as he permits, nay, unless in so far as he commands;
that they are not only bound by his fetters, but are even forced to do
him service,--when the godly think of all these things they have ample
sources of consolation. For, as it belongs to the lord to arm the fury
of such foes and turn and destine it at pleasure, so it is his also to
determine the measure and the end, so as to prevent them from breaking
loose and wantoning as they list. Supported by this conviction, Paul,
who had said in one place that his journey was hindered by Satan (1
Thess. 2:18), in another resolves, with the permission of God, to
undertake it (1 Cor. 16:7). If he had only said that Satan was the
obstacle, he might have seemed to give him too much power, as if he
were able even to overturn the counsels of God; but now, when he makes
God the disposer, on whose permission all journies depend, he shows,
that however Satan may contrive, he can accomplish nothing except in so
far as He pleases to give the word. For the same reason, David,
considering the various turns which human life undergoes as it rolls,
and in a manner whirls around, retakes himself to this asylum, "My
times are in thy hand," (Ps. 31:15). He might have said the course of
life or time in the singular number, but by times he meant to express,
that how unstable soever the condition of man may be, the vicissitudes
which are ever and anon taking place are under divine regulation. Hence
Rezin and the king of Israel, after they had joined their forces for
the destruction of Israel, and seemed torches which had been kindled to
destroy and consume the land, are termed by the prophet "smoking fire
brands." They could only emit a little smoke (Is. 7:4). So Pharaoh,
when he was an object of dread to all by his wealth and strength, and
the multitude of his troops, is compared to the largest of beasts,
while his troops are compared to fishes; and God declares that he will
take both leader and army with his hooks, and drag them whither he
pleases (Ezek. 29:4). In one word, not to dwell longer on this, give
heed, and you will at once perceive that ignorance of Providence is the
greatest of all miseries, and the knowledge of it the highest
happiness.