I won't labor too much, for I desire to speak rather of our similarities and of encouragement, and I do think we have such on many, many things, dear brother Andrew. I value your input and opinions regardless, knowing that we all, me especially, see through a glass darkly at best, and our understandings are still darkened, and show our continual need of grace.

I don't think we were trying to advocate an abstinance of sharing things with one's wife, as much as we were about sharing things with the appropriate people. Even Paul himself, as Wretchedworm quoted, advised and commanded that those who are spiritually mature are to put the attention towards the restoration of a brother (Gal. 6), and he, as well as Christ, also said that we are not to lay stumbling stones in front of our brothers and sisters. A few examples may clear my point. What if one's wife was an alcoholic and the husband was one as well, yet he was further along in his recovery than she was? Should he go to her for counsel and lean on her for support when he found himself failing? I'm sure you wouldn't advocate this, just as I wouldn't. What if one's wife was addicted to pornography as well, for some actually are? Now they're both committing adultery, you would say. Would you advise that both of them begin accountability sessions with one another, knowing that the probability is that both will stumble and fall, and will probably become more entrenched in this sin? Surely you wouldn't advise this, just as I wouldn't. At least, in your way of understanding it, there ought to be two conflicting commands here; one to confess to your wife and one to not lead her to stumble or sin. Which should be followed?

That's the main thrust of my entire posts on the issue. It's not so much that I advocate being secretive from your wife; it's just that I see a danger in not being discretionary. It is factual that women have a different wiring then men do, with regard to this issue, and with all facets of how they function and view things. And, I think it wise to take that into consideration, just as I would want them to do the same for me as well. I wouldn't expect them to come to me with their sins that only a woman can understand and help them with. And, furthermore, if one uses the logic of covenant connection to bring about the conclusion that one must confess certain sins to their wives, and vice-versa, then, in my opinioin, we're not too far off from maintaining that we must also confess certain sins to every brother and sister within the body of Christ, for aren't we are all in covenant together with him as our head (as communion displays)? In some regard, there must actually be a covenant connection between you and I and every other brother (though much different than a husband and wife), for we are all both members of the same body also, just as a husband and wife are. We are one body too, that of which Christ is the head, and my sin truly does affect this body of Christ, and so it does affect you. My sin is, in some sense then a sin against Christ and his body, for when I sin, I am corrupting this body of Christ with poison, and am therfore contaminating it with sin, and leading it to stumble and fall. Paul uses a similar comparison in I Cor. 6 with regard to joining the members of your body to a prostitute. He say, "Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the membes of Christ and make them members of a prostitute?...the sexually immoral person sins against his own body." Knowing that this verse specifically refers to individual people's bodies, I think that there can be just as much of a case made to say that what I do with my body affects the body of Christ as a whole, and in some sense, a spiritual adultery is taking place whever I commit some sin, just as God viewed Israel of committing spiritual adultery with him whenever they sinned. Within my local body, if I'm engaged in any sin for seasons upon seasons of time, it will certainly have an influence upon the members of the body I am with. An injection of poison into the arm will soon spread to affect the leg. And, this scripture and that of Eph. 5 , coupled with that of Jesus' prayer in Jn.17 necessitates, in my opinion, the same argument that you make with husbands and wives, for the comparison is of the oneness of husbands and wives to the oneness of Christ and the Church, and his prayer in Jn.17 is that we as brothers and sisters have this same oneness with one another as Christ even has with the Father. Christ has united himself to us and become one in body and covenant with us all, making us all members of one another in covenant. I say, in my opinion, that this covenant is even stronger than the covenant of marriage, for marriage is a carnal covenant, for it can be had between non-believers, and this of Christ and his Church is a spiritual one. Therefore, how do I get away from not confessing every sin to every single brother out there, since we are all in spiritual convenant together (as communion illustrates) and not just in carnal covenant together? If I must do so for a carnal covenant, ought I not do so even more for a spiritual one? And, if a carnal adultery demands such a confession, ought not a spiritual one demand the same?

Therefore, in my opinion, if I view confession as mandated because of the covenant confession argument, we have a lot of confession that we must do. So, in response to this, I refer to David's words, when he said to God, "Against you and you only have I sinned." He had just committed murder and adultery, and had been living in it for about a year, and he concludes that he only sinned against God? Why didn't he say that he sinned against Bathsheba's husband Uriah, having caused her to break the covenant she had with him? He said specifically that his sin was against God only, not against God and Uriah both. He didn't even say that he had committed sin against any of his other wives who he was married to at the time. And, no mention is made of his confession to them. That's why, in my understanding, I wonder if the entire concept of confession might not be for a different purpose. In some sense, there is no sin that we do against people at all, for sin must be a violation of a standard or rule that some lawgiver had the authority to make in the first place. There is only one Lawgiver with that authority to do so, and that is God, and "only God can forgive sins" as scripture says. So, all sin is against God and him only, though, in a 'tongue and cheek' manner, we say that sin is against one another. What we really, legally, before God in his court mean, in my opinion, is that our sin against God involved me not keeping an agreement between some other person, and a negative consequence ensued. Otherwise, how do we reconcile David's words?

So, I personally am for confession of sin to one another, but not because they are my Lawgiver and that I owe them a confession as such; and not because I am in covenant with them, for then I personally am convinced that I must confess to all brothers and sisters first and foremost, because they are in spiritual covenant with me, and marriage is a carnal one. I feel it honorable to confess my sins to one another, and I think that we ought to right our wrongs that we have done, for I think we ought to show such respect and pursue such oneness. But, I think confession in general is commanded of us for a higher end, namely that we "pray for one another", as James 5 says. The goal of confession is that more people understand how to best pray for us, and that we understand how to best pray for them, so that we both engage in that process of prayer for one another, and ask God for grace on their behalf, as I Jn. 5:16 says. Lastly, if your wife asked you if she looked fat, and you lie about it and say that she doesn't look fat, are you going to go back to her later and say, "honey, I lied to you when you asked me that...you are fat"?

Please believe me, I am on your side, brother. I agree that confession is appropriate and necessary. Let's fellowship on these and more important similarities. Besides, it's good for people to know of the different opinions that we have with regard to issues. It gives them more to think through, and, perhaps they may be wiser than both of us and show us a more accurate way.

Blessings to you!

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Charles Plauger
Member/Grace Reformed Church
Oakland, MD

I disagree and have seen your position become ruinous to relationships. I have heard of divorce being sought after because of pornography being compared to physical adultery. While I know this is adultery it is not as serious as the act of physical adultery between two persons. Divorce is permitted in that case I believe. But divorce is not permissible for just lusting after another person. Yes, I believe in levels of sin.

I am not condoning an unrepentant attitude. Nor am I condoning something on the level of a sinful parent who violates a child and doesn't repent and apologize. That is apples and oranges. A man should confide in his Elders and close brothers first and then if his wife is considered mature enough to handle the situation she should be involved.

We just might have to disagree on this one.

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R. Martin Snyder (Moderator)

1689er
Harmony Baptist Church (Member)
PuritanCovenanter MSN Blog
PuritanCovenanter's MySpace Page

"Our object should not be to have scripture on our side but to be on the side of scripture; and however dear any sentiment may have become by being long entertained, so soon as it is seen to be contrary to the Bible, we must be prepared to abandon it without hesitation."
William Symington

Click to get:Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

Are you saying brother that a man must confess every lustful thought that he ever has to his wife?

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Daniel Ritchie
Saintfield, Northern Ireland - Queen's University, Belfast:History/Politics
Member of Dromara Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland (Covenanter)

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John J.
Member Christ Prebyterian Church (OPC)
Salt Lake City, Utah
www.christpres.net

That would mean that every married man on PuritanBoard and throughtout the worldwide church should be confessing to their wives, or some are liars.

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Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia

Since we're on the topic of "confessing to one's wife" what about the daily sins we commit in thought, word, and deed that are NOT adultery (7th comm.)?

Why should we just confess the sin of lust to our wives?

It seems many here are elevating violations of the 7th commandment above violations of the rest. The WLC would do well here.

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Chris Mangum
Presbyterian Reformed Church of Charlotte
student, GPTS
.357 Mangum

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. James 1:27

McAfee with parental controls and giving your wife the password works really well. It lets you specifically name site that you want blocked out. It even block out the adds that pop up with Google bloggs that are snuk in there because it also blocks all questionable pictures.

Norton with parental controls works pretty well too.

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Erick Bohndorf PCA, KS
http://qayaqtraveler.blogspot.com/
Jeremiah 23:16,17, "Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Do not listen to the words of the prophets who prophesy to you, filling you with vain hopes. They speak visions of their own minds, not from the mouth of the Lord. 17They say continually to those who despise the word of the Lord, ‘It shall be well with you’; and to everyone who stubbornly follows his own heart, they say, ‘No disaster shall come upon you."

Here are two tremendous messages by Dr. Beeke on this subject:

SermonAudio.com - Temptations Men Face

SermonAudio.com - Distorted Forms of Sexuality

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Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls
"But by the grace of God I am what I am." I Corinthians 15:10

"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton

I apologize for dissappearing the last 2 weeks. Things have been crazy here, and I had to replace the water and gas pipes to my house unexpectedly.....

I don't have time at the moment to deal with all of the comments above to my previous post, however, I don't believe many of them deal fairly with what I said, and some ridiculous (imo) conclusions are reached.

Here's some more food for thought:

1 Corinthians 7:4 For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.

This verse is in the context of dealing with conjugal rights between husband and wife, however, with sexual sin (sin committed against the body (1 Cor. 6:18), it directly involves the spouse, per the unity (two become one flesh) of the marriage covenant.

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Andrew Moody
Pastor - Christ Covenant OPC - Amarillo, TX
Director - Amarillo Theological Institute
Owner - Reformation Art
Amarillo Reformed Fellowship