Christian AND non-practicing homosexual?

Kim G · #1 (**permalink**) 03-13-2009, 09:29 AM

Abraham Piper had a link to this article on his blog. I'm interested in people's thoughts about what this man has to say.

Ransom Fellowship Publishers of Notes from Toad Hall and Critique

Snippet from the article:

Quote:

I, too, am a homosexual Christian. Since puberty, I’ve been conscious of an exclusive attraction to persons of my own sex. Though I have never been in a gay relationship as Auden was, I have also never experienced the “healing” or transformation of my sexual orientation that some formerly gay Christians profess to have received. But I remain a Christian, a follower of Jesus. And, like Auden, I accept the Christian teaching that homosexuality is a tragic sign that things are “not the way they’re supposed to be.” Reading New Testament texts like Romans 1:26-27 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 through the lens of time-honored Christian reflection on the meaning and purpose of marriage between a man and a woman, I find myself—much as I might wish things to be otherwise—compelled to abstain from homosexual practice.

JBaldwin · #2 (**permalink**) 03-13-2009, 09:38 AM

Several years ago, I had a friend who expressed this same sentiment. He said he believed his problem due was to emotional damage from his childhood brought on by a bad relationship with his mother. He was determined to work through it, and eventually did and settled down in his late 30s to marry and eventually have several children. He is still happily married.

CDM · #3 (**permalink**) 03-13-2009, 09:47 AM

[note: did not read the article--so I am answering generally]

I do not see where the confusion lies. Let me re-word the OP: "A Christian AND non-practicing [drunkard, fornicator, murderer, etc.]?

Of course one can be a born again Christian and have temptations of homosexual sins ...and fornication, and adultery, and murder, and covetousness...

The desire of this specific type of sin is not *worse* (i.e., unpardonable) than other sins.

Take for example, one who is a drunkard, is converted, yet in his sanctification he still struggles with desires (temptations) of getting drunk. Yet, he mortifies his sins and abstains. Is he a drunkard?

1 Cor. 6:9-11

Quote:

9 Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortionists, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Craig · #4 (**permalink**) 03-13-2009, 10:11 AM

I wonder why a Christian struggling against homosexual desires would call himself a homosexual?

According to Paul, even if this had ever been the case, it is what we were, not are (1 Cor 6:11).

Kim G · #5 (**permalink**) 03-13-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I wonder why a Christian struggling against homosexual desires would call himself a homosexual?

According to Paul, even if this had ever been the case, it is what we were, not are (1 Cor 6:11).

I think this is what confused me. I could call myself a non-practicing *insert pet sin struggle* because I have a sinful heart that is capable of any sin. But I don't want to identify myself with a sinful struggle but with the cleansing blood of Christ.

However, I think he may have made a valid point in that homosexual struggles seem to be a taboo discussion topic. If a man at your church struggles with p0rn or alcohol addiction, you'd want him to get help, be accountable to people, etc. You wouldn't want him to hide it. Imagine a man who has struggles with homosexual thoughts and desires. He doesn't dare tell anyone for fear that he'll be shunned. How easy it would be for that man to fall into grievous sin because he wants someone to love and understand him. And what he needs is Christian help--friends who keep reminding him of the love of God for Him, of the desire of the Good Shepherd to lead him in paths of righteousness.

OPC'n · #6 (**permalink**) 03-13-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kim G

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I wonder why a Christian struggling against homosexual desires would call himself a homosexual?

According to Paul, even if this had ever been the case, it is what we were, not are (1 Cor 6:11).

I think this is what confused me. I could call myself a non-practicing *insert pet sin struggle* because I have a sinful heart that is capable of any sin. But I don't want to identify myself with a sinful struggle but with the cleansing blood of Christ.

However, I think he may have made a valid point in that homosexual struggles seem to be a taboo discussion topic. If a man at your church struggles with p0rn or alcohol addiction, you'd want him to get help, be accountable to people, etc. You wouldn't want him to hide it. Imagine a man who has struggles with homosexual thoughts and desires. He doesn't dare tell anyone for fear that he'll be shunned. How easy it would be for that man to fall into grievous sin because he wants someone to love and understand him. And what he needs is Christian help--friends who keep reminding him of the love of God for Him, of the desire of the Good Shepherd to lead him in paths of righteousness.

Do you think this pertains more to homosexuals? I would think that most people would not want their particular "pet" sin known for fear of being shunned. Do people bring out their particular sin to others....like a confession sort of thing? I haven't really ever heard of Protestants doing this kind of thing....only Catholics with their priests.

Kim G · #7 (**permalink**) 03-13-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sjonee

Do people bring out their particular sin to others....like a confession sort of thing? I haven't really ever heard of Protestants doing this kind of thing....only Catholics with their priests.

I'm not advocating spilling every sin you've ever committed or struggled with. But if a Christian has an ongoing struggle with a specific sin and needs counsel, he shouldn't be afraid to talk with a brother or sister in Christ about prayer and accountability. James 5:16 tells us to confess our sins one to another and pray for one another. That can't happen if we're not open about our struggles.

Leslie · #8 (**permalink**) 03-13-2009, 02:09 PM

While the Catholic practice of obligatory confession is not right, there certainly is good, in some circumstances, to confess. If a believer has an overwhelming sense of guilt about a particular sin or even his general depravity, a pastor can be very helpful. It is appropriate for the sinner to confess the problem in detail and for the pastor to lead him or her in a prayer of specific confession to God followed by assurance of forgiveness. While this type of healing encounter is available in many churches for ex-alcoholics, addicts, and even lesbians, it is not available for male homosexuals. Presumably this is because of fear of seduction of the little boys in the church.

lynnie · #9 (**permalink**) 03-13-2009, 02:49 PM

I have wondered a lot about Montsanto's Bovine Growth Hormone, added to cow feed in the 90s and secreted into the milk that our boys and girls drink (unless you buy organic). Outlawed in Europe. The cows live less than half a normal lifespan but they produce way more milk.

Is it possible that some of the feminization of boys is all the girley hormones they ingest that God never intended them to? How about all the soy with estrogen precoursers? Seems like they add soy to everything anymore.

I know we have a sin nature and I don't want to minimize it. But is it possible that some of this is all the modern girl hormones that boys never ingested before the last couple decades?

Hard to know...but Montsanto is one of the most evil corporations on earth.

Scott1 · #10 (**permalink**) 03-13-2009, 02:59 PM

In Genesis 2 and 3, God reveals He created man and woman. He was not confused about what He created, and their identities. We are not free to misrepresent that, a violation of the ninth commandment.

Quote:

CDM's
The desire of this specific type of sin is not *worse* (i.e., unpardonable) than other sins.

I realize you are trying to make a point about "in thought" rather than "in deed." It might be helpful for us all to reflect on the Catechism on this point:

Quote:

Westminster Larger Catechism

Question 150: Are all transgressions of the law of God equally heinous in themselves, and in the sight of God?

Answer: All transgressions of the law of God are not equally heinous; but some sins in themselves, and by reason of several aggravations, are more heinous in the sight of God than others.

Question 151: What are those aggravations that make some sins more heinous than others?

Answer: Sins receive their aggravations, From the persons offending: if they be of riper age, greater experience or grace, eminent for profession, gifts, place, office, guides to others, and whose example is likely to be followed by others. From the parties offended: if immediately against God, his attributes, and worship; against Christ, and his grace; the Holy Spirit, his witness, and workings; against superiors, men of eminency, and such as we stand especially related and engaged unto; against any of the saints, particularly weak brethren, the souls of them, or any other, and the common good of all or many. From the nature and quality of the offense: if it be against the express letter of the law, break many commandments, contain in it many sins: if not only conceived in the heart, but breaks forth in words and actions, scandalize others, and admit of no reparation: if against means, mercies, judgments, light of nature, conviction of conscience, public or private admonition, censures of the church, civil punishments; and our prayers, purposes, promises, vows, covenants, and engagements to God or men: if done deliberately, wilfully, presumptuously, impudently, boastingly, maliciously, frequently, obstinately, with delight, continuance, or relapsing after repentance. From circumstances of time and place: if on the Lord's day, or other times of divine worship; or immediately before or after these, or other helps to prevent or remedy such miscarriages: if in public, or in the presence of others, who are thereby likely to be provoked or defiled.

**py3ak** · #11 (**permalink**) 03-13-2009, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kim G

Abraham Piper had a link to this article on his blog. I'm interested in people's thoughts about what this man has to say.

Ransom Fellowship Publishers of Notes from Toad Hall and Critique

Snippet from the article:

Quote:

I, too, am a homosexual Christian. Since puberty, I’ve been conscious of an exclusive attraction to persons of my own sex. Though I have never been in a gay relationship as Auden was, I have also never experienced the “healing” or transformation of my sexual orientation that some formerly gay Christians profess to have received. But I remain a Christian, a follower of Jesus. And, like Auden, I accept the Christian teaching that homosexuality is a tragic sign that things are “not the way they’re supposed to be.” Reading New Testament texts like Romans 1:26-27 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 through the lens of time-honored Christian reflection on the meaning and purpose of marriage between a man and a woman, I find myself—much as I might wish things to be otherwise—compelled to abstain from homosexual practice.

Sounds like a classic example of one who is called to make himself a eunuch for the sake of the kingdom of God.

Perhaps part of the reason why male homosexuals receive less counsel is that the men who would counsel them are either despising or uncomfortable: it must be awkward to work with someone if you are yourself a source of temptation.

JoeRe4mer · #12 (**permalink**) 03-13-2009, 06:00 PM

That article was just depressing. I really do hope that the man in question receives deliverance from his temptation, this line in particular caught my attention some of us are more blessed than we realize I can't imagine what this struggle would feel like.

Quote:

“He and I would go climbing together and talk about it,” Charlie said. “Mainly I listened. We would get excited when he hadn’t looked at **** for a day or two—or even just for several hours. And we would talk about the grace that God always held out to us because of Jesus.”

whitway · #13 (**permalink**) 03-13-2009, 06:29 PM

Not a fan of the "I'm a Homosexual Christian" statement. All of us were saved from various sins but do not identify ourselves with those sins but just plain "Christian". I understand why he does it but it doesn't make it right. My .02

21st Century Calvinist · #14 (**permalink**) 03-13-2009, 07:46 PM

Kim,
Thank you for posting this and opening up the discussion.
Here are my random thoughts on the article.
I found it deeply disturbing. The pain that is deeply etched in this man is very, very sad. The reality of our very broken world screams out, "this is not the way it's supposed to be." I remember reading a quote from John Stott where he says that at the heart of the homosexual condition is loneliness. I see now how this is so. I respect those who, aware of their orientation and profess Christ, respect the teaching of the Scripture. It cannot be easy. Indeed, it must be a very difficult road. I have no answers as to why God has not chosen to remove from him these desires.
In a sense, this is where the rubber meets the road. You know, its great to theologize, debating and discussing the finer points of doctrine and Reformed theology. But what use is our perfect theology if we cannot reach out the hand of brotherly love to those who are hurting and yes, even those who are in sin. There are those who have fallen from celibacy and it is right that we rebuke our brothers and sisters in love.
If my attitude is to condemn or to pride myself that at least my sins are not as reprehensible as another's then I have to wonder if I understand the grace of God that I love to speak about.
I pray that this guy and the many in this situation will find healing. It may well be that God will bring that healing through His people.