Can one "sense" when they are falling away from the faith?

WrittenFromUtopia · #1 (**permalink**) 04-01-2006, 11:30 PM

?

py3ak · #2 (**permalink**) 04-01-2006, 11:30 PM

I would suspect that feelings that we are falling away are sometimes the preservative from falling away. We feel this way, we get somewhat worried, we examine our lives and discover that we are way wrong (or confirm it) and get back to the regular use of the means of grace.

Still, I would not want to say that people who are apostasizing are never aware of a slip (and aware of it as a bad thing) but I don't believe that would be universal (reading RC conversion testimonies they think of it as a good thing).

[Edited on 4-2-2006 by py3ak]

WrittenFromUtopia · #3 (**permalink**) 04-01-2006, 11:31 PM

Â¿QuÃ© usted significa?

py3ak · #4 (**permalink**) 04-01-2006, 11:34 PM

Sorry --updated!

WrittenFromUtopia · #5 (**permalink**) 04-01-2006, 11:35 PM

Is it better or worse to avoid the sacrament of the Lord's Supper during these times?

py3ak · #6 (**permalink**) 04-01-2006, 11:38 PM

In my view, worse; that table is a means of grace. We expect a benefit from it, as long as we ourselves do not get in the way of that. I would not say to a starving child, "You must gain weight before you get to eat any of this really nourishing food".

Puddleglum · #7 (**permalink**) 04-02-2006, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
Is it better or worse to avoid the sacrament of the Lord's Supper during these times?

I'd think that that would be a time to go, talk to your pastor/elder(s) and heed their advice. (Not that that's what I always do!) The Larger Catechism has a question on the Lord's Supper which is really helpful . . . it basically concludes that even if you doubt that you're a Christian, you "may and ought" take the sacrament. So I'd say that if your pastor/elder(s) say that you're a Christian, even if you feel like you're falling away, you should take . . .

Semper Fidelis · #8 (**permalink**) 04-02-2006, 12:26 AM

Gabriel,

Do you mean falling away in the sense that:

1. A reprobate who is falling away from the Church that will never be restored.
2. A real believer who is in a temporary state of rebellion.

In the case of 1, I don't really think the dead "sense" they are falling away to eternal condemnation as if they had such full senses they would have eyes to see and turn from their path and would not be reprobate to begin with.

In the case of 2, I think the preaching of God's Word and Church discipline would prick the conscience and cause them to consider the faith they have turned from. I think any real believer has a restless conscience when they are "falling away" in this sense. I think their "flesh" can mask that realization for a season even to the point of heinous sin but God will eventually discipline us out of our insanity.

C. Matthew McMahon · #9 (**permalink**) 04-02-2006, 12:42 AM

Yes, they can sense it. But they will hide it behind a mask, and know they are doing it.

WrittenFromUtopia · #10 (**permalink**) 04-02-2006, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SemperFideles
Gabriel,

Do you mean falling away in the sense that:

1. A reprobate who is falling away from the Church that will never be restored.
2. A real believer who is in a temporary state of rebellion.

How could you possibly know the difference?

Semper Fidelis · #11 (**permalink**) 04-02-2006, 03:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia

Quote:

Originally posted by SemperFideles
Gabriel,

Do you mean falling away in the sense that:

1. A reprobate who is falling away from the Church that will never be restored.
2. A real believer who is in a temporary state of rebellion.

How could you possibly know the difference?

Quote:

Gal 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!"

Scott Bushey · #12 (**permalink**) 04-02-2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SemperFideles

Quote:

Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia

Quote:

Originally posted by SemperFideles
Gabriel,

Do you mean falling away in the sense that:

1. A reprobate who is falling away from the Church that will never be restored.
2. A real believer who is in a temporary state of rebellion.

How could you possibly know the difference?

Quote:

Gal 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!"

Is it possible that one could be self deceived?

[Edited on 4-2-2006 by Scott Bushey]

BobVigneault · #13 (**permalink**) 04-02-2006, 09:48 AM

It is similar to the convicting work of the holy spirit at conversion. He will send a conviction of sin. If we remain stubborn and refuse to 'walk according to the Word' then God will discipline us and withhold blessings until we repent. Eventually we will feel like our insides are being consumed. The Spirit will fill us with a sorrow that leads to repentance because He loves us.

We will be aware of our own sin and we know God sees it but we will foolishly think that we are OK as long as we keep the visible church from knowing about it. But the principle is true, that which we whisper in our closet will be shouted from the rooftops; and God is not mocked.

Semper Fidelis · #14 (**permalink**) 04-02-2006, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott Bushey

Quote:

Originally posted by SemperFideles

Quote:

Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia

Quote:

Originally posted by SemperFideles
Gabriel,

Do you mean falling away in the sense that:

1. A reprobate who is falling away from the Church that will never be restored.
2. A real believer who is in a temporary state of rebellion.

How could you possibly know the difference?

Quote:

Gal 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, "Abba, Father!"

Is it possible that one could be self deceived?

It says His Spirit is the one that cries out. While I agree that self-deception is possible, the spirit of self-deception is not of the same quality as the Spirit of sonship.

One agrees with the Word, the other does not.

[Edited on 4-2-2006 by SemperFideles]

alwaysreforming · #15 (**permalink**) 04-02-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
Can one sense when they're falling away from the faith?

I think I've been "sensing" it for several months now. My "appetite" for the things of God and of His Son are at a 5-year low.

The worries and anxieties of life have done that to me in the past, and are doing so again now.

My signature line should be: "What a wretched man I am!"

As for taking the Lord's Supper, these days I either avoid the service that contains the sacrament, or pass on the elements as they're being distributed. I remember several weeks ago as I let the elements pass me by, as soon as they left my hand my inner voice kept thinking, "Who am I to PASS on the body and blood of Christ???" If it is indeed what I need, how could I possibly pass them up?

[Edited on 4-2-2006 by alwaysreforming]

py3ak · #16 (**permalink**) 04-03-2006, 11:36 PM

Christopher,

I believe that your feelings after passing on the table were correct. If it is a means of grace, why should we expect to improve if we neglect it.

I will pray for you. One pastor would say, "Sometimes I lose all desire for God's word. Then I look myself in my study and read it until I get a desire for it again."

Semper Fidelis · #17 (**permalink**) 04-04-2006, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by alwaysreforming

Quote:

Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
Can one sense when they're falling away from the faith?

I think I've been "sensing" it for several months now. My "appetite" for the things of God and of His Son are at a 5-year low.

The worries and anxieties of life have done that to me in the past, and are doing so again now.

My signature line should be: "What a wretched man I am!"

As for taking the Lord's Supper, these days I either avoid the service that contains the sacrament, or pass on the elements as they're being distributed. I remember several weeks ago as I let the elements pass me by, as soon as they left my hand my inner voice kept thinking, "Who am I to PASS on the body and blood of Christ???" If it is indeed what I need, how could I possibly pass them up?

Is it possible you may need to read something like this:
https://ecom.ligonier.org/ecom/produ...roduct=TRO01BH

I have gone through many long, dry periods in my spiritual life. After re-deployment from OIF 1, I was in a spiritual "funk" for about a year and a half. It's all attributable to sin but it's not always that easy to pray your way through such periods. Even when you do, the melancholy may still be there.

I don't know the specific nature of your struggle. Perhaps it is melancholy, perhaps it is sin that seems to continually master you. Whatever it is, however, the best advice I ever received was to just believe and continue the journey through such times. Don't base your status in Christ in how you feel but on what He has done for you. When the enemy assaults you during such times remind yourself that you were bought with a price. Crave the Word and pray that its preaching will transform you. Crave the Lord's Supper and feed on Christ for your spiritual strength. It's one thing to give up the Lord's Supper because you refuse to repent of a sin in your heart - it's quite another to give it up because you feel spiritually weak.

Last, and foremost, talk to your Elders and have them counsel you and pray with you about what is afflicting you.