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Old 03-05-2008, 04:23 PM
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What text is the NKJ based on?

What text is the NKJ based on? from this thread
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:47 PM
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The Textus Receptus, or recieved text.
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:50 PM
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Whilst the main body is based on the TR it contains the deviant readings in footnotes so I am unable to see how it can lay claim to being TR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NKJV Preface
the editors decided to retain the traditional text in the body of the New Testament and to indicate major Critical and Majority Text variant readings in the footnotes. Although these variations are duly indicated in the footnotes of the present edition, it is most important to emphasize that fully eighty-five percent of the New Testament text is the same in the Textus Receptus, the Alexandrian Text, and the Majority Text.
New King James Version
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Old 03-05-2008, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV1611 View Post
Whilst the main body is based on the TR it contains the deviant readings in footnotes so I am unable to see how it can lay claim to being TR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NKJV Preface
the editors decided to retain the traditional text in the body of the New Testament and to indicate major Critical and Majority Text variant readings in the footnotes. Although these variations are duly indicated in the footnotes of the present edition, it is most important to emphasize that fully eighty-five percent of the New Testament text is the same in the Textus Receptus, the Alexandrian Text, and the Majority Text.
New King James Version

It is TR precisely because they keep those deviant readings in footnotes, and do not insert them in the text. That is what makes it TR. Isn't it?

Last edited by Presbyterian Deacon; 03-05-2008 at 05:03 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 03-05-2008, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Presbyterian Deacon View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV1611 View Post
Whilst the main body is based on the TR it contains the deviant readings in footnotes so I am unable to see how it can lay claim to being TR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NKJV Preface
the editors decided to retain the traditional text in the body of the New Testament and to indicate major Critical and Majority Text variant readings in the footnotes. Although these variations are duly indicated in the footnotes of the present edition, it is most important to emphasize that fully eighty-five percent of the New Testament text is the same in the Textus Receptus, the Alexandrian Text, and the Majority Text.
New King James Version

It is TR precisely because they keep those deviant readings in footnotes, and do not insert tham in the text. That is what makes it TR. Isn't it?

I agree. We don't consider footnotes as part of God's Word.

We might forget that the section headings are also not God's Word, but that's another issue.
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Old 03-05-2008, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV1611 View Post
Whilst the main body is based on the TR it contains the deviant readings in footnotes so I am unable to see how it can lay claim to being TR.
I've had many a KJV that did the same, though.
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Old 03-05-2008, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV1611 View Post
Whilst the main body is based on the TR it contains the deviant readings in footnotes so I am unable to see how it can lay claim to being TR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NKJV Preface
the editors decided to retain the traditional text in the body of the New Testament and to indicate major Critical and Majority Text variant readings in the footnotes. Although these variations are duly indicated in the footnotes of the present edition, it is most important to emphasize that fully eighty-five percent of the New Testament text is the same in the Textus Receptus, the Alexandrian Text, and the Majority Text.
New King James Version
The "main body" or entirely based on TR ? Not including the footnotes.
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Old 03-05-2008, 05:24 PM
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Yes. The Main body, or text of the New Testament is based on and translated from TR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAYMAN JOE View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV1611 View Post
Whilst the main body is based on the TR it contains the deviant readings in footnotes so I am unable to see how it can lay claim to being TR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NKJV Preface
the editors decided to retain the traditional text in the body of the New Testament and to indicate major Critical and Majority Text variant readings in the footnotes. Although these variations are duly indicated in the footnotes of the present edition, it is most important to emphasize that fully eighty-five percent of the New Testament text is the same in the Textus Receptus, the Alexandrian Text, and the Majority Text.
New King James Version
The "main body" or entirely based on TR ? Not including the footnotes.
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Old 03-05-2008, 05:52 PM
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It is possible to buy NKJVs without footnotes if that is what you prefer.
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Old 03-06-2008, 10:23 AM
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The footnotes point out variant readings in the Critical Text (Nestle-Aland and UBS) and the Majority Text (MT). If you view them as deviant, fine. But I find it useful to see where these differences are, as reflected in the NASB and ESV (for example) which don't give you the benefit of TR footnotes.
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:24 AM
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While the NKJV claims to follow the Received Text in the transalation itself, (footnote issues aside) and for the most part does, there are certain documented instances where it actually follows the Critical text readings, not in the footnotes, but in the body itself:
II Corinthians 3.14, II John 7, Acts 19.9, 39; Philippians 2.9 and Revelation 6.11.

For more information see the latest issue of TBS's "Quarterly Record" in its critique of the NKJV.
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ADKing View Post
While the NKJV claims to follow the Received Text in the transalation itself, (footnote issues aside) and for the most part does, there are certain documented instances where it actually follows the Critical text readings, not in the footnotes, but in the body itself:
II Corinthians 3.14, II John 7, Acts 19.9, 39; Philippians 2.9 and Revelation 6.11.

For more information see the latest issue of TBS's "Quarterly Record" in its critique of the NKJV.
The article is certainly correct that changes are made to the text of the NKJV from time to time but with no notice thereof.
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:45 AM
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Here are the above texts AV first, NKJV second

2 Corinthians 3:14

Quote:
4But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
Quote:
But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ
2 John 7

Quote:
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
Quote:
For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist
Acts 19:9

Quote:
But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.
Quote:
But when some were hardened and did not believe, but spoke evil of the Way before the multitude, he departed from them and withdrew the disciples, reasoning daily in the school of Tyrannus.
Acts 19:39

Quote:
"But if ye enquire any thing concerning other matters, it shall be determined in a lawful assembly."
Quote:
But if you have any other inquiry to make, it shall be determined in the lawful assembly.
Phil. 2:9

Quote:
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Quote:
Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name,
Revelation 6:11
Quote:
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Quote:
Then a white robe was given to each of them; and it was said to them that they should rest a little while longer, until both the number of their fellow servants and their brethren, who would be killed as they were, was completed.
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Old 03-06-2008, 12:01 PM
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What about in Acts 4:27:

KJV
Quote:
For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
NKJV
Quote:
“For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together
and again later in Acts 4:30:

KJV
Quote:
By stretching forth thine hand to heal; and that signs and wonders may be done by the name of thy holy child Jesus
NKJV
Quote:
by stretching out Your hand to heal, and that signs and wonders may be done through the name of Your holy Servant Jesus.”
Holy Child? Servant? As best I can recall, all Critical text versions, such as the Nearly Inspired Version, (NIV) translate "child" as "servant".
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Old 03-06-2008, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgrim View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADKing View Post
While the NKJV claims to follow the Received Text in the transalation itself, (footnote issues aside) and for the most part does, there are certain documented instances where it actually follows the Critical text readings, not in the footnotes, but in the body itself:
II Corinthians 3.14, II John 7, Acts 19.9, 39; Philippians 2.9 and Revelation 6.11.

For more information see the latest issue of TBS's "Quarterly Record" in its critique of the NKJV.
The article is certainly correct that changes are made to the text of the NKJV from time to time but with no notice thereof.
Which "quarterly report" has this? I found a list here.
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Old 03-06-2008, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangum View Post
Holy Child? Servant? As best I can recall, all Critical text versions, such as the Nearly Inspired Version, (NIV) translate "child" as "servant".
I'm a little confused. I thought the "critical text" and the "Textus Receptus" were manuscripts in original language - not the translations of them. The question then should be what is the correct translation of the TR text - holy child or servant? "Child" is a translation. What is the original word from the TR and then what might be the correct translation.

I did a check and there the same word in Greek is translated child and servant. This is the KJV Concordance:
Quote:
G3816
παῖς
pais
Total KJV Occurrences: 24
servant, 8
Mat_8:6, Mat_8:8, Mat_8:13, Mat_12:18, Luk_1:54, Luk_1:69, Luk_7:7, Act_4:25
child, 5
Mat_17:18, Luk_2:43, Luk_9:42, Act_4:27, Act_4:30
son, 3
Joh_4:51, Act_3:13, Act_3:26
children, 2
Mat_2:16, Mat_21:15
servants, 2
Mat_14:2, Luk_15:26
maid, 1
Luk_8:54
maiden, 1
Luk_8:51
menservants, 1
Luk_12:45
young, 1
Act_20:12
So more times than not, the translation in the KJV itself has it as "servant". So there is no indication that the NKJV was using anything but the TR when it translated the word as "servant" instead of "child".
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Old 03-06-2008, 12:45 PM
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I agree with Civbert. The list provided by Daniel Ritchie (above) appear to be slight translation differences. No indication of a deviation from the TR.
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Old 03-06-2008, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Civbert View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangum View Post
Holy Child? Servant? As best I can recall, all Critical text versions, such as the Nearly Inspired Version, (NIV) translate "child" as "servant".
I'm a little confused. I thought the "critical text" and the "Textus Receptus" were manuscripts in original language - not the translations of them. The question then should be what is the correct translation of the TR text - holy child or servant? "Child" is a translation. What is the original word from the TR and then what might be the correct translation.

I did a check and there the same word in Greek is translated child and servant. This is the KJV Concordance:
Quote:
G3816
παῖς
pais
Total KJV Occurrences: 24
servant, 8
Mat_8:6, Mat_8:8, Mat_8:13, Mat_12:18, Luk_1:54, Luk_1:69, Luk_7:7, Act_4:25
child, 5
Mat_17:18, Luk_2:43, Luk_9:42, Act_4:27, Act_4:30
son, 3
Joh_4:51, Act_3:13, Act_3:26
children, 2
Mat_2:16, Mat_21:15
servants, 2
Mat_14:2, Luk_15:26
maid, 1
Luk_8:54
maiden, 1
Luk_8:51
menservants, 1
Luk_12:45
young, 1
Act_20:12
So more times than not, the translation in the KJV itself has it as "servant". So there is no indication that the NKJV was using anything but the TR when it translated the word as "servant" instead of "child".
My apologies for the confusion. You are correct in what you pointed out. Either way my point is the NKJV took what others translations of the critical text use. Basically, many times, like in this instance, the NKJV renders a word that the critical text translations use.
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Old 03-06-2008, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mangum View Post
My apologies for the confusion. You are correct in what you pointed out. Either way my point is the NKJV took what others translations of the critical text use. Basically, many times, like in this instance, the NKJV renders a word that the critical text translations use.
Isn't true that there is about 98% agreement between the TR and the CT manuscripts? I'd expect there to be a great deal of agreement then in the translations to modern English.

So the key verses should be those where the actually language TR and CT differ. If someone can show me where the NKJV seemed to prefer the CT over the TR in those instances, that would be something. Otherwise, I would expect a great deal of agreement between modern translations since they happen to be based on manuscripts that agree 98% of the time and they are translating into the same modern English.

P.S. I found that the last two issues of the TBS quarterly are the ones in question - issues 581 and 582.
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Old 03-06-2008, 01:28 PM
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Holy Child? Servant? As best I can recall, all Critical text versions, such as the Nearly Inspired Version, (NIV) translate "child" as "servant".
Easy tiger. No version is inspired. If you really want to insult the NIV just call it the Northern Ireland Version.
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Old 03-06-2008, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie View Post
Quote:
Holy Child? Servant? As best I can recall, all Critical text versions, such as the Nearly Inspired Version, (NIV) translate "child" as "servant".
Easy tiger. No version is inspired. If you really want to insult the NIV just call it the Northern Ireland Version.
Personally I go for "Non-Inspired Version"
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Old 03-06-2008, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV1611 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie View Post
Quote:
Holy Child? Servant? As best I can recall, all Critical text versions, such as the Nearly Inspired Version, (NIV) translate "child" as "servant".
Easy tiger. No version is inspired. If you really want to insult the NIV just call it the Northern Ireland Version.
Personally I go for "Non-Inspired Version"
You would be correct; though that is a label I would apply to every version (unless one is a Ruckmanite).
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Old 03-06-2008, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie View Post

You would be correct; though that is a label I would apply to every version (unless one is a Ruckmanite).