OK, we know that the AV has Reformed leanings as does the the ESV, I know that Ken Taylor's Paraphrase Living Bible has a STRONG Arminian "slant". What other more popular Translations have an Arminian leaning?

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~etexas~

IMO (caveat: I have had no seminary training; I've only pulled many all-nighters over the last 9 years, comparing about 1,700 verses. I have been sternly taken to task by ministers and others for mentioning this - - and stating what I'm about to state), all translations that don't come from the TR stream (NIV, NASB, NKJV, Amplified, etc.) have some Arminian "bent" to them. Compare just these verses, TR vs. non-TR: Genesis 15:1; 2 Corinthians 2:17 (although the 1599 Geneva notes have an adequate explanation of the difference in translation of that verse); Luke 2:33 and 4:4; Galatians 1:9; Colossians 1:14. I went a little further and compared them to two Catholic bibles that I own, one from high school and one from college. The similarities between the higher critical text versions and the Catholic ones are astounding.

I've heard a couple of things recently about the late Dr. Edward Freer Hills, to whom I think I referred favorably in past posts, that have made me doubt his scholarship, if not his sanity. On the other hand, they may have been part of the ad hominem attacks on him for being a diehard supporter and researcher of the KJB that consumed the latter part of his life.

The notes in Scofield Bibles are Arminian in their slant, as are those in the Thompson Chain Reference KJV I often use. I ignore them. If you look at the verses cited above, what is being undermined by their changes? Covenant theology (Genesis 15:1 - is God playing a guessing game with Abram at that point, according, for example, to the NASB's rendering?) and the deity of Jesus Christ (other verses, such as the one from Luke 2). If one removes, "...but by every word of God" from Luke 4:4, that is not an aid to one who is seriously aiming for "setting (his) sights not on things on the earth..." (Colossians 3:2.)

The implications and inferences that one may draw from what I found in all those nights of Bible-verse comparisons are staggering. However, as I stated, I'm not seminary-trained and so whatever I say has absolutely no "heft" to it...

Margaret

(There are Reformed tracts on the importance of keeping to TR-based Bible versions; we give them out to visitors at our new church, according to the direction of our Presbytery...)

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Margaret
Free Church of Scotland [Continuing]
Michigan

"He must increase, but I must decrease." - John 3:30

Margaret,

Can you give us an example of bias in the Thompson Chain Reference? I don't have one but it has been touted as the most unbiased reference Bible. Also, while it has the chain references, I was not aware that it has "notes".

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Chris
OPC member
Now attending Grace Community Baptist Church
Mandeville, LA

"Faith alone saves, but it is a faith that works." - S. Lewis Johnson

Some from Arminian backgrounds have alleged that the NIV has a Calvinistic bias. This may be because they are aware of the CRC's role in bringing that translation to fruition.

I have also seen at least one site that claimed that the NKJV is especially good for Wesleyan-Arminians but the author gave no evidence to support this claim.

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Chris
OPC member
Now attending Grace Community Baptist Church
Mandeville, LA

"Faith alone saves, but it is a faith that works." - S. Lewis Johnson

I think I saw that site as well, I know there were a number of conservative Presbyterians on Translation, and I have never seen much of an indication of this either. Before the ESV came out Sproul used the NKJV often in his books. It was also the basis for the New Geneva Study Bibles as the text.

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~etexas~

This is neither Calvinistic nor Arminian, but I noticed while listening to the audio NIV copy I have that they remove the word evil several times. It could have just been the text I was listening to (Gen. 47-50) but it was bothersome.

Especially the way they translated our beloved Gen. 50:20
NIV
Rather than as the NKJV puts it
I guess it kinda means the same thing, but it should would be hard to convince the Arminian that God predetermines sin using the NIV here.

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Bryan Riddle
1689 London Baptist Confession
Bethel Baptist Church Owasso, Oklahoma

Good point.

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~etexas~

Oh, the notes that I was referring to in the Thompson Chain Reference are in the prefaces and in the section (doesn't appear to stand alone as one of the official appendices) in the back entitled, "The Origin and Growth of the English Bible" (10th printing, 2002 is what I have). There, it cedes ground and gives the nod as leading to "better Bible versions" in its discussion of the "higher critical text" on pp. 1587-1588. Curiously, it doesn't mention the names of either Fenton John Anthony Hort or Brook Foss Westcott when it discusses the Revised Version of 1881. But that's not surprising to me.

The King James translators' biographies hardly compare to those of Hort and Westcott: The KJV Translators from Translators Revived;
Westcott and Hort. The former were scholars, godly men who were likely regenerate. Westcott and Hort allegedly were members of the Fabian Society: The Nineteenth Century Occult Revival. The Bible versions that followed the Revised Version were also post-Finney and they were never going to have a Reformed slant to them, anyway: The Disturbing Legacy of Charles Finney - Dr. Michael Horton. Reformed doctrine, as mainstream, was on its way downward by the Enlightenment, unfortunately, and things only got worse from then on. We who frequent this board, every one of us, has been peculiarly and specially blessed, and we should never forget it.

For the past decade, I've gone round and round with people on the Bible versions issue. It has been anything but a pleasant experience. Conclusion I've drawn: not going to argue it anymore. People will read the Bible version that the Holy Spirit is leading them to read and it is emphatically not my place to judge or to try to lead them away from their choice. The Lord's ways are higher than ours and He, magnificently, can use anything for good... I am not an officeholder in a church and being female, I can never be one, which is eminently okay with me. I was saved while reading the NIV (one of whose translators was Virginia Mollenkott - ) and I would never denigrate someone else's Bible preference, whether it has an Arminian "bent" or not. I just think people who want to know the origin of their particular preference in Bible versions should have access to all of the information available.

I still like my KJV Thompson Chain Reference; in fact, the cover is starting to get pretty worn and when it goes completely, I'll probably get another one. For Reformed doctrine, though, appearing in a study Bible, I use the 1599 Geneva; it's one of the major reasons I bought it. It's not perfect, but it's better than most...

Margaret

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Margaret
Free Church of Scotland [Continuing]
Michigan

"He must increase, but I must decrease." - John 3:30

Margaret....I think ALL of us used the NIV at some point! That was the (second?) translation I bought after my conversion.

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~etexas~

I use the NKJV and have not noticed any "bias" towards Wesleyan-Arminian, all the good "Calvinist" words are there...

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church, Sewickley, PA
Candidate Under Care Pittsburgh Theological Seminary & Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

“If the Church could be aroused to a deeper sense of the glory that awaits her, she would enter with a warmer spirit into the struggles that are before her.”-- J.H. Thornwell

anything but the 1611 KJV

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Joseph P. Grigoletti II
Lay-person
Église Réformée du Québec
Québec, Québec Canada

''Nothing is so sacred that Satan will not invade it. In fact, the more sacred something is, the more he desires to profane it.''
John MacArthur

That's the first one I thought of. A little while ago I was debating on which reference Bible to go with and it seem to have a lot of good reviews so I picked it up only to find that many of helps are from an Arminian point of view.

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J. M. - Baptist - Ontario, Canada -

Feileadh Mor
The Orthodox Catechism

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soli Deo gloria!
~N!ck Nap!er~
Ordained Pastor, Associate, Cornerstone Church, NC
Christians are like snow covered dung; it is the purity of the covering which the Father sees.
-Luther-
There is nothing more ugly than a Christian orthodoxy without understanding or without compassion. -Francis Schaeffer-

I have looked at fascimiles of the 1611, but do not own one. I really struggle, I would have a hard time preaching from it. I use the 1873 edition as my trusty companian.

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Paul Woods
Currently attending
http://ChristOurKingColumbia.org(PCA)
Columbia, MO

I REMBER NOW! The site that makes this claim! Ken Collins, he is a Disciples of Christ Pastor (that was driving me nuts) I exchanged some emails with that dude, I think he is pretty LIBERAL. (Small understatement)

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~etexas~

Margaret,

Here's Luke 2 from various texts. Wheich are from the TR and which not and what are te theological differences here?

Thanks

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Bryan Wiley
Southern Baptist Theological Seminary
Reformed Baptist Church
Louisville, Kentucky

I am not a fan of the NIV and never have been. But my understanding is that Mollenkott was not a translator but was a consultant for English style or something like that.

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Chris
OPC member
Now attending Grace Community Baptist Church
Mandeville, LA

"Faith alone saves, but it is a faith that works." - S. Lewis Johnson

Yes, that is the site. I came across it once a couple of years ago when googling different clerical vestments because he has a page where he models them.

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Chris
OPC member
Now attending Grace Community Baptist Church
Mandeville, LA

"Faith alone saves, but it is a faith that works." - S. Lewis Johnson

Didn't the RSV used to have "to them that obey God" added to Rom 8:28? That sounds pretty arminian when compaired to the trusty KJV, "to them who are called according to his purpose

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Timothy Johnson
First United Presbyterian of Moline
PCUSA (Yea, I know)
Theology/Philosophy Sunday School Teacher
Davenport, IA

Margaret,

I'd be interested to hear what you recently heard about Dr. Hills. And cite the sources, if possible. Perhaps I can clarify. Thanks.

Steve

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Steve Rafalsky
Elder, International Evangelical Church (Reformed)
Limassol, Cyprus

"I am set for the defense of the gospel" (Philippians 1:17)

"Strengthened with all might, according to His glorious
power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness..." (Colossians 1:11)

Please compare NKJV Gen. 4:7; John 17:12; 1 Cor. 1:18, and Heb. 2:16, with AV, and consult relevant traditional reformed commentaries. These are just a few of many examples where the NKJV demonstrates it was not prepared by men of our profession.

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Yours sincerely,


"Illum oportet crescere me autem minui."