» Site Navigation | | | » Online Users: 90 | | 34 members and 56 guests | | 21st Century Calvinist, Andres, austinww, bconway52, Casey, CatherineL, Dan, Honor, jambo, jwithnell, Karnes, KMK, Knight, Micah Everett, Michael Doyle, Montanablue, NateLanning, PactumServa72, Pergamum, Piano Hero, PMBrooks, Puritan Scot, Richard Tallach, Romans922, Southern Presbyterian, T.A.G., TimV, westminken | | Most users ever online was 856, 07-06-2007 at 12:19 AM. | |  | 
01-04-2009, 10:59 PM
| | Puritanboard Junior | | Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Mountain Lake Park, MD
Posts: 1,103
Thanks: 366
Thanked 284 Times in 197 Posts
| | | Thoughts Regarding The ESV And Gal. 2:21
As I've generally liked and have been using the ESV recently, the passage in Gal. 2:21 was referenced in today's sermon, and I noticed that something seemed odd. The text said, "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose." However, every version I read before said, "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died in vain." The ESV added a footnote, and at the bottom of the page, that said, "or righteousness", which sort of made me upset, because they were basically telling the reader that those two terms are synonomous, when they aren't. I thought this was supposed to be an essentially literal translation. I just don't see what one has to gain by substituting "justification" for "righteousness". The word in greek is "dikaiosune", which is translated as "righteousness" all 90 times that it appears in the New Testament. And yet, here liberty is taken to translate it as "justification", when it has it's own greek word, namely "dikaiosis". From my understanding, "dikaiosune" (the word used in this passage), denotes the character or quality of being righteous, formerly spelled rightwiseness, and refers to the quality of holiness or rightness of something, but "dikaiosis" denotes the act of pronouncing as righteous, pronouncing justification, or acquittal, the establishing of a person as just by acquittal from guilt. I mean, of course the law was never meant to do that, to acquit us from guilt and declare us as not guilty. That seems obvious already if one understands what laws are meant for. To me, it just seemed to alter the meaning of what the writer was trying to say. I thought the point was, that the law never made one righteous, not that the law never declared one righteous or acquitted them of guilt. In my mind, there's an ocean's worth of difference here. Does anybody else notice this an expression of too much liberty in translation? Or, does anybody see something more positive to gain by translating this passage in a way that it never has been translated in the past? I mean, even the NIV doesn't do this. Hmmmmm. I'm open to viewing this differently. Thanks for your thoughts.
Blessings!
__________________
Charles Plauger
Member/Grace Reformed Church
Oakland, MD
Last edited by moral necessity; 01-04-2009 at 11:15 PM.
| 
01-04-2009, 11:02 PM
|  | Puritanboard Doctor | | Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Clarksburg, WV
Posts: 11,973
Thanks: 5,103
Thanked 2,644 Times in 1,604 Posts
| |  Very interesting... | 
01-04-2009, 11:15 PM
|  | Vanilla Westminsterian | | Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 10,518
Thanks: 334
Thanked 3,500 Times in 1,412 Posts
| | |
Charles,
The new ESV update has righteousness, with a footnote "or justification." The RSV has "justification" so I am guess that this was a verse that did not get greater scrutiny the first time around.
FYI the NET Bible has righteousness with a footnote for justification as well.
__________________ Fred Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX) Christ Church Blog "The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle) | | The Following User Says Thank You to fredtgreco For This Useful Post: | | 
01-04-2009, 11:25 PM
|  | Puritanboard Junior | | Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Fairbanks, AK
Posts: 1,434
Thanks: 493
Thanked 379 Times in 240 Posts
| | |
Buy the AV or Geneva. There is no footnote for justification. And the other problems of basing a translation off the RSV are resolved.
__________________
Chris Thomas | SBC-Founders | Fairbanks, AK "Whatever the cause, the Calvinists were the only fighting Protestants. It was they whose faith gave them courage to stand up for the Reformation. In England, Scotland, France, Holland, they,... did the work, and but for them the Reformation would have been crushed... If it had not been for Calvinists,... and whatever you like to call them, the Pope and Philip would have won, and we should either be Papists or Socialists." ~ Sir John Skelton | | The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JohnGill For This Useful Post: | | 
01-04-2009, 11:51 PM
|  | Puritanboard Junior | | Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Georgetown, IN
Posts: 1,535
Thanks: 158
Thanked 645 Times in 378 Posts
| | |
The ESV follows the RSV down a pathway of interpretation rather than translation in 1 Corinthians 7:36-38.
__________________
Lance G. Marshall
Pastor
Georgetown, Indiana
| | The Following User Says Thank You to Whitefield For This Useful Post: | |  | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode |
Posting Rules
| You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts HTML code is Off | | | |