The PuritanBoard  

Go Back   The PuritanBoard > The Scriptures > Translations and Manuscripts

Translations and Manuscripts Discussions regarding translations of the Bible and Bible manuscripts

» Site Navigation
   • Forum Rules
    • Infraction System
   • Blog Rules
   • Admins & Mods
° PBay
   • F.A.Q.
» Online Users: 73
10 members and 63 guests
AV1611, Backwoods Presbyterian, blhowes, Cotton Mather, Daniel Ritchie, NaphtaliPress, Pilgrim, satz
Most users ever online was 856, 07-06-2007 at 12:19 AM.
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 07:50 PM
Gesetveemet's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: I live in Lake Katrine, NY which is about 90 miles north of NYC
Posts: 106
Thanks: 31
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Peter, Paul and Italics?

How were Peter and Paul able to qoute the Italics in the Old testament verses below?




Psalm 16:8 ¶ I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.

Peter quoted the italics Acts 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:




Isaiah 65:1 ¶ I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

Paul quoted the italics Romans 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.



Deuteronomy 25:4 Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn

Paul quoted the italics again 1Corinthians 9:9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?


Thank you,
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 07:55 PM
Davidius's Avatar
Puritanboard Graduate
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 3,524
Thanks: 495
Thanked 405 Times in 273 Posts
From what I understand, words in Italics are either absent from the original and inserted by the translators/editors, or represent an attempt to translate a word of which the meaning is unknown.

For example, many languages, especially ancient languages, frequently omit forms of the verb "to be," as well as understood subjects or objects. These are some of the most frequently italicized "insertions" because it sounds bad in English.
__________________
Davidius
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics

And though the really inspired artist may complain that, with the majority, piano-playing is mere strumming, and painting little more than daubing, yet, the exuberant feeling of having a share in the privileges of art is so overwhelming, that the scorn of the artist is preferred to the abandonment of art training in education. To have laid a production of your own, however poor, upon the altar of art becomes more and more the characteristic of an accomplished civilization. - Abraham Kuyper

Last edited by Davidius; 04-08-2008 at 08:11 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 08:06 PM
HaigLaw's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Shreveport, LA
Posts: 400
Blog Entries: 1
Thanks: 101
Thanked 76 Times in 51 Posts
There's a funny story about how Joseph Smith stumbled onto that fact Davidius pointed out above, and promptly issued another "translation" that omitted all the italics.

Later "prophets" discovered how the sans-italics "translation" read so awkwardly, and put them all back in.

All under the inspiration of their god, presumably.

Just as their god led them to plagiarize the Masonic temple ritual and put it into the "Book of Abraham."
__________________

HaigLaw, ruling elder
Grace PCA, Shreveport, LA
http://www.xanga.com/HaigLaw
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 08:12 PM
toddpedlar's Avatar
PB Evil Scientist...Boo!
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Decorah, IA
Posts: 1,994
Thanks: 39
Thanked 302 Times in 156 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidius View Post
From what I understand, words in Italics are either absent from the original and inserted by the translators/editors, or represent an attempt to translate a word of which the meaning is unknown.

For example, many languages, especially ancient languages, frequently omit forms of the verb "to be." These are some of the most frequently italicized "insertions" because it sounds bad in English.
It is also possible that the italicized words are present in the Septuagint but not the original Hebrew - so what the translators of the modern translation of the OT are doing are indicating the fact that they aren't in the original language. Quotations found in the NT of the OT often follow the Septuagint text, so this could in principle be it (not sure in these cases)
__________________
Todd K. Pedlar
member, First Congregational Church, (CCCC) Cresco, IA
http://semperubi.rtrc.net

"Many men, after a long conversion, see more of the workings of sin in their hearts than ever they did before or at their first conversion. Now, such men have not an increase of sin, but an increase of illumination and light" (Christopher Love)
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to toddpedlar For This Useful Post:
Gesetveemet (04-08-2008)
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 08:15 PM
Davidius's Avatar
Puritanboard Graduate
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 3,524
Thanks: 495
Thanked 405 Times in 273 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by toddpedlar View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidius View Post
From what I understand, words in Italics are either absent from the original and inserted by the translators/editors, or represent an attempt to translate a word of which the meaning is unknown.

For example, many languages, especially ancient languages, frequently omit forms of the verb "to be." These are some of the most frequently italicized "insertions" because it sounds bad in English.
It is also possible that the italicized words are present in the Septuagint but not the original Hebrew - so what the translators of the modern translation of the OT are doing are indicating the fact that they aren't in the original language. Quotations found in the NT of the OT often follow the Septuagint text, so this could in principle be it (not sure in these cases)
Great point!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 08:21 PM
Gesetveemet's Avatar
Puritanboard Freshman
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: I live in Lake Katrine, NY which is about 90 miles north of NYC
Posts: 106
Thanks: 31
Thanked 13 Times in 11 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidius View Post

For example, many languages, especially ancient languages, frequently omit forms of the verb "to be," as well as understood subjects or objects. These are some of the most frequently italicized "insertions" because it sounds bad in English.
Thank you, I know that to be true my wife speaks fluent Hebrew and Dutch.





.
__________________
William Letus
Trinity Reformed Baptist Church
Home: upstate NY
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 08:22 PM
Davidius's Avatar
Puritanboard Graduate
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 3,524
Thanks: 495
Thanked 405 Times in 273 Posts
For whatever reason, we speakers of Germanic languages decided that we like to be really wordy.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2008, 09:10 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Mandeville, LA
Posts: 5,595
Thanks: 1,041
Thanked 468 Times in 336 Posts
If the KJV was good enough for Peter and Paul then it's good enough for me!
__________________
C.P. --Attending Grace Community Baptist Church, Mandeville, LA

"Where is the young man who fears the judgment to come? What is the breath of an enemy of God to the blast of the soul by the breath of the Almighty? If you fear the frowns of a fellow worm, how will you stand in judgment with an angry God?" --Asahel Nettleton

Click to get: Board Rules--Signature Requirements--Suggestions?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.0.1

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0 ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2002-2008 PuritanBoard.com
Hosted by WebsiteMaven - helping ministries with web hosting advice, reviews, and design.
Westminster Abbey © Confessional Presbyterian Presses - used with permission.
Add Our Custom Button to your Google Toolbar

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61