I am leaning in an almost total AV direction.

etexas · #1 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 02:56 PM

For a long time I have felt the AV to be the best English translation, I did use other translations(and will still do so for comparison)....what has really convinced me you might ask? Final Authority by Dr. William P. Grady. He is a Fundamental Baptist, I do not agree with much or even most of his personal Theology. This is rather beside the point, he is not "shrill", he is thoughtful, sober , and sometimes quite funny. He has exposed a lot of lies we have been fed in regard to the Critical Text and many falsehoods fed to us in regard to the Hebrew undergirding the OT sections of the New Translations. I read White and to my shame I became almost knee-jerk against anyone who would dare challenge the New Versions, this has humbled me, it is through scripture we see the Love Letter (Augustine) and revelation of our Lord, why should we not want t to be as "pure" as possible? I challenge one and all to read Final Authority (I am sure you can get inexpensive used copies on Amazon), and read it with an open mind. It has really changed a lot in the way I think of Text-Types and Translation.

Blueridge Baptist · #2 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 03:02 PM

I'm inclined to agree with you dear brother. Here is another angle of view from a reformed perspective. MODERN BIBLE VERSIONS

etexas · #3 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueridge Baptist

I'm inclined to agree with you dear brother. Here is another angle of view from a reformed perspective. MODERN BIBLE VERSIONS

Thank you for that. Actually a LOT of Reformed Christins embrace the AV one of the best defenders was Dr. Hills.

mangum · #4 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fingolfin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueridge Baptist

I'm inclined to agree with you dear brother. Here is another angle of view from a reformed perspective. MODERN BIBLE VERSIONS

Thank you for that. Actually a LOT of Reformed Christins embrace the AV one of the best defenders was Dr. Hills.

That's right. The Westminster Confession does.

And, in fact my entire denomination does: Presbyterian Reformed Church.

From the Form of Church Government, para. 17:

The Ordinances of Worship in a Particular Congregation

17. The ordinances in a single congregation are prayer, thanksgiving, and singing of Psalms, the word read (although there follow no immediate explication of what is read), the word expounded and applied, catechizing, the sacraments administered, collection made for the poor, dismissing the people with a blessing. In accordance with the simplicity and purity of worship provided for in the church's Basis of Union, the church's worship shall be without instrumental music, and only the Book of Psalms shall be used for singing in worship. The Authorized King James Version shall be the text used in the public reading of the word, and the Scottish Metrical Psalter the text for singing in worship.

VirginiaHuguenot · #5 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mangum

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fingolfin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueridge Baptist

I'm inclined to agree with you dear brother. Here is another angle of view from a reformed perspective. MODERN BIBLE VERSIONS

Thank you for that. Actually a LOT of Reformed Christins embrace the AV one of the best defenders was Dr. Hills.

That's right. The Westminster Confession does.

And, in fact my entire denomination does: Presbyterian Reformed Church.

From the Form of Church Government, para. 17:

The Ordinances of Worship in a Particular Congregation

17. The ordinances in a single congregation are prayer, thanksgiving, and singing of Psalms, the word read (although there follow no immediate explication of what is read), the word expounded and applied, catechizing, the sacraments administered, collection made for the poor, dismissing the people with a blessing. In accordance with the simplicity and purity of worship provided for in the church's Basis of Union, the church's worship shall be without instrumental music, and only the Book of Psalms shall be used for singing in worship. The Authorized King James Version shall be the text used in the public reading of the word, and the Scottish Metrical Psalter the text for singing in worship.

BTW, Dr. Hills' widow is a member of the Presbyterian Reformed Church (Des Moines, IA congregation).

mangum · #6 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirginiaHuguenot

Quote:

Originally Posted by mangum

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fingolfin

Thank you for that. Actually a LOT of Reformed Christins embrace the AV one of the best defenders was Dr. Hills.

That's right. The Westminster Confession does.

And, in fact my entire denomination does: Presbyterian Reformed Church.

From the Form of Church Government, para. 17:

The Ordinances of Worship in a Particular Congregation

17. The ordinances in a single congregation are prayer, thanksgiving, and singing of Psalms, the word read (although there follow no immediate explication of what is read), the word expounded and applied, catechizing, the sacraments administered, collection made for the poor, dismissing the people with a blessing. In accordance with the simplicity and purity of worship provided for in the church's Basis of Union, the church's worship shall be without instrumental music, and only the Book of Psalms shall be used for singing in worship. The Authorized King James Version shall be the text used in the public reading of the word, and the Scottish Metrical Psalter the text for singing in worship.

BTW, Dr. Hills' widow is a member of the Presbyterian Reformed Church (Des Moines, IA congregation).

I did not know that. Excellent.

etexas · #7 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mangum

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fingolfin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueridge Baptist

I'm inclined to agree with you dear brother. Here is another angle of view from a reformed perspective. MODERN BIBLE VERSIONS

Thank you for that. Actually a LOT of Reformed Christins embrace the AV one of the best defenders was Dr. Hills.

That's right. The Westminster Confession does.

And, in fact my entire denomination does: Presbyterian Reformed Church.

From the Form of Church Government, para. 17:

The Ordinances of Worship in a Particular Congregation

17. The ordinances in a single congregation are prayer, thanksgiving, and singing of Psalms, the word read (although there follow no immediate explication of what is read), the word expounded and applied, catechizing, the sacraments administered, collection made for the poor, dismissing the people with a blessing. In accordance with the simplicity and purity of worship provided for in the church's Basis of Union, the church's worship shall be without instrumental music, and only the Book of Psalms shall be used for singing in worship. The Authorized King James Version shall be the text used in the public reading of the word, and the Scottish Metrical Psalter the text for singing in worship.

Thank you and good points, the lofty English in the AV does under-gird some great Confessions. I like also the fact that it was a Puritan and Anglican effort, this makes it interesting from a Historic perspective.

etexas · #8 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirginiaHuguenot

Quote:

Originally Posted by mangum

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fingolfin

Thank you for that. Actually a LOT of Reformed Christins embrace the AV one of the best defenders was Dr. Hills.

That's right. The Westminster Confession does.

And, in fact my entire denomination does: Presbyterian Reformed Church.

From the Form of Church Government, para. 17:

The Ordinances of Worship in a Particular Congregation

17. The ordinances in a single congregation are prayer, thanksgiving, and singing of Psalms, the word read (although there follow no immediate explication of what is read), the word expounded and applied, catechizing, the sacraments administered, collection made for the poor, dismissing the people with a blessing. In accordance with the simplicity and purity of worship provided for in the church's Basis of Union, the church's worship shall be without instrumental music, and only the Book of Psalms shall be used for singing in worship. The Authorized King James Version shall be the text used in the public reading of the word, and the Scottish Metrical Psalter the text for singing in worship.

BTW, Dr. Hills' widow is a member of the Presbyterian Reformed Church (Des Moines, IA congregation).

Cool! Hills was amazing! If I am not in error he held degrees from 3 Ivy's!?!

Barnpreacher · #9 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fingolfin

For a long time I have felt the AV to be the best English translation, I did use other translations(and will still do so for comparison)....what has really convinced me you might ask? Final Authority by Dr. William P. Grady. He is a Fundamental Baptist, I do not agree with much or even most of his personal Theology. This is rather beside the point, he is not "shrill", he is thoughtful, sober , and sometimes quite funny. He has exposed a lot of lies we have been fed in regard to the Critical Text and many falsehoods fed to us in regard to the Hebrew undergirding the OT sections of the New Translations. I read White and to my shame I became almost knee-jerk against anyone who would dare challenge the New Versions, this has humbled me, it is through scripture we see the Love Letter (Augustine) and revelation of our Lord, why should we not want t to be as "pure" as possible? I challenge one and all to read Final Authority (I am sure you can get inexpensive used copies on Amazon), and read it with an open mind. It has really changed a lot in the way I think of Text-Types and Translation.

What encouraged you to get a hold of Grady's book, if you don't mind me asking? I am familiar with Grady from my dispensational, fundamental days. I heard him speak on a couple of different occasions. He's an interesting fellow. His methods and ways are very much like those of Peter Ruckman's. Which is why you'll find those two in the same circle. With that said, he has a lot of knowledge concerning the modern version issue. I use the AV, but I definitely don't go to the extremes that I used to when I ran around in the Ruckman/Grady circle. When I say I don't go to the extremes I used to I still believe the AV is the preserved Word of God for the english speaking people. What I don't believe that it does is correct the Greek text like some do.

raderag · #10 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fingolfin

For a long time I have felt the AV to be the best English translation, I did use other translations(and will still do so for comparison)....what has really convinced me you might ask? Final Authority by Dr. William P. Grady. He is a Fundamental Baptist, I do not agree with much or even most of his personal Theology. This is rather beside the point, he is not "shrill", he is thoughtful, sober , and sometimes quite funny. He has exposed a lot of lies we have been fed in regard to the Critical Text and many falsehoods fed to us in regard to the Hebrew undergirding the OT sections of the New Translations. I read White and to my shame I became almost knee-jerk against anyone who would dare challenge the New Versions, this has humbled me, it is through scripture we see the Love Letter (Augustine) and revelation of our Lord, why should we not want t to be as "pure" as possible? I challenge one and all to read Final Authority (I am sure you can get inexpensive used copies on Amazon), and read it with an open mind. It has really changed a lot in the way I think of Text-Types and Translation.

Just out of curiosity, is he coming at this from a Textus Receptus(TR) point of view?
Does he believe there should be modern translation scholarship?
Is it the existence or the quality of the new ones that he has a problem with?
What about the translations, as obscure as they may be, that use the TR only?

JonathanHunt · #11 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 03:50 PM

It is certainly my position that the MT/TR are the best texts, I love the AV, but I personally have no problem with using the NKJV, which uses these.

VirginiaHuguenot · #12 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fingolfin

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirginiaHuguenot

Quote:

Originally Posted by mangum

That's right. The Westminster Confession does.

And, in fact my entire denomination does: Presbyterian Reformed Church.

From the Form of Church Government, para. 17:

The Ordinances of Worship in a Particular Congregation

17. The ordinances in a single congregation are prayer, thanksgiving, and singing of Psalms, the word read (although there follow no immediate explication of what is read), the word expounded and applied, catechizing, the sacraments administered, collection made for the poor, dismissing the people with a blessing. In accordance with the simplicity and purity of worship provided for in the church's Basis of Union, the church's worship shall be without instrumental music, and only the Book of Psalms shall be used for singing in worship. The Authorized King James Version shall be the text used in the public reading of the word, and the Scottish Metrical Psalter the text for singing in worship.

BTW, Dr. Hills' widow is a member of the Presbyterian Reformed Church (Des Moines, IA congregation).

Cool! Hills was amazing! If I am not in error he held degrees from 3 Ivy's!?!

Indeed! You can read some biographical and bibliographical information about Hills here and here.

etexas · #13 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barnpreacher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fingolfin

For a long time I have felt the AV to be the best English translation, I did use other translations(and will still do so for comparison)....what has really convinced me you might ask? Final Authority by Dr. William P. Grady. He is a Fundamental Baptist, I do not agree with much or even most of his personal Theology. This is rather beside the point, he is not "shrill", he is thoughtful, sober , and sometimes quite funny. He has exposed a lot of lies we have been fed in regard to the Critical Text and many falsehoods fed to us in regard to the Hebrew undergirding the OT sections of the New Translations. I read White and to my shame I became almost knee-jerk against anyone who would dare challenge the New Versions, this has humbled me, it is through scripture we see the Love Letter (Augustine) and revelation of our Lord, why should we not want t to be as "pure" as possible? I challenge one and all to read Final Authority (I am sure you can get inexpensive used copies on Amazon), and read it with an open mind. It has really changed a lot in the way I think of Text-Types and Translation.

What encouraged you to get a hold of Grady's book, if you don't mind me asking? I am familiar with Grady from my dispensational, fundamental days. I heard him speak on a couple of different occasions. He's an interesting fellow. His methods and ways are very much like those of Peter Ruckman's. Which is why you'll find those two in the same circle. With that said, he has a lot of knowledge concerning the modern version issue. I use the AV, but I definitely don't go to the extremes that I used to when I ran around in the Ruckman/Grady circle.

Chuckle, good question (and fair), I really found Grady on Amazon. As I said.......in his Theology I take him with a shaker of salt, in this book he does a nice job in pointing to why the AV should not be lightly abandoned by God's people. As far as Ruckman, I have read and heard old "Pete", I do not find Grady to be as extreme in terms of advanced revelation and things of that nature. I am sort of pulling the meat from the bones with Dr. Grady, when he makes a good poind I mark it, if he goes on a tangent I ignore it. Overall the book has been helpful, I am sure there re better ones.

Blueridge Baptist · #14 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 03:58 PM

I use the KJV. However I am currently finishing the OT in the 1599 Geneva and starting the NT again in the same. I really enjoy reading in the Geneva. I have given a few NKJV's to some younger people who have had no experience with the AV since the NT text of the NKJV is the TR.

PuritanCovenanter · #15 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 04:05 PM

Here is another great resource. Jay P. Green turned me on to it.

http://www.dtl.org/books/preview/dbbv.htm

etexas · #16 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raderag

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fingolfin

For a long time I have felt the AV to be the best English translation, I did use other translations(and will still do so for comparison)....what has really convinced me you might ask? Final Authority by Dr. William P. Grady. He is a Fundamental Baptist, I do not agree with much or even most of his personal Theology. This is rather beside the point, he is not "shrill", he is thoughtful, sober , and sometimes quite funny. He has exposed a lot of lies we have been fed in regard to the Critical Text and many falsehoods fed to us in regard to the Hebrew undergirding the OT sections of the New Translations. I read White and to my shame I became almost knee-jerk against anyone who would dare challenge the New Versions, this has humbled me, it is through scripture we see the Love Letter (Augustine) and revelation of our Lord, why should we not want t to be as "pure" as possible? I challenge one and all to read Final Authority (I am sure you can get inexpensive used copies on Amazon), and read it with an open mind. It has really changed a lot in the way I think of Text-Types and Translation.

Just out of curiosity, is he coming at this from a Textus Receptus(TR) point of view?
Does he believe there should be modern translation scholarship?
Is it the existence or the quality of the new ones that he has a problem with?
What about the translations, as obscure as they may be, that use the TR only?

To be honest I am unsure of Dr. Grady's opinions on some of these things. I have not read all of the book yet ( my wife put on her sleep-mask last night which means "Close the book and go to bed!") I will finish it soon.

Blueridge Baptist · #17 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by puritancovenanter

Here is another great resource. Jay P. Green turned me on to it.

http://www.dtl.org/books/preview/dbbv.htm

Brother Gary at DTL has some great stuff on his site.

etexas · #18 (**permalink**) 08-23-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueridge Baptist