I personally use the NASB as my everyday Bible. I just can't "get into" the ESV.

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church
Student of Theology
Pittsburgh Theological Seminary
Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary
My Blog

"Nothing is sweet to me without the enjoyment of Christ in it." -- Thomas Brooks

This is something asserted by those who practically speaking are King James Onlyists who see any deviation from the KJV as evidence that the NKJV is not based on the TR. It it based on the Scrivener text although it may not follow it every single time. See this post by a strong KJV advocate who maintains intellectual honesty in his defense of the KJV.

If the NKJV is wrong by all means say so, but don't claim it is based on Nestle-Aland when that is clearly not the case. Such claims may convince the credulous, but will do more than almost anything else to drive away those who have some modicum of knowledge about textual issues.

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Chris Poe
Mandeville, LA

"There are the foolish fanatics always to be found in such a movement and always discrediting it--the lunatic fringe in all reform movements." Theodore Roosevelt

I've flip flopped on the textual issue for some time, but am now leaning strongly toward the Byzantine Text. But for a CT Bible I use the NASB as well. It is the translation I cut my teeth on. The translation I was never able to "get into" was the NIV. The ESV is clearly better than the NIV but it takes a back seat to the KJV, NKJV, NASB and probably the ASV (with which I'm not that familiar) in my opinion.

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Chris Poe
Mandeville, LA

"There are the foolish fanatics always to be found in such a movement and always discrediting it--the lunatic fringe in all reform movements." Theodore Roosevelt

I would agree with that, I would also add that the NIV always seemed "clique" to me, which to be honest is what keeps me from buying an ESV.

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church
Student of Theology
Pittsburgh Theological Seminary
Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary
My Blog

"Nothing is sweet to me without the enjoyment of Christ in it." -- Thomas Brooks

People do seem to hop on board the latest fad, and the fact that the ESV was strongly endorsed by many of the big names no doubt helped sales. I did buy one early on. I do think the formatting, etc. is generally good. I just don't think it's the be all and end all of translations. The hardcover Classic Reference Edition that I bought in 2002 started coming apart mere months after I bought it, and this was not after heavy use. I got rid of it when I moved recently and don't anticipate buying another one anytime soon.

I think the problem for me with the NIV was that it seemed designed to read like the newspaper and it has no phrases that seem to linger in the mind the way the KJV does, for example. I also didn't find the more literal translations like the NASB or NKJV to be hard to understand and so I used them.

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Chris Poe
Mandeville, LA

"There are the foolish fanatics always to be found in such a movement and always discrediting it--the lunatic fringe in all reform movements." Theodore Roosevelt

KJV/ESV/NAB comparison;

The English Standard Version Exposed

__________________
Gil Garcia
Rehoboth Reformed Church (RCUS)
La Habra, CA


"Indeed, one might say that as far as the doctrine of justification
is concerned, if you are not on the road to Wittenberg or Geneva, then the old proverb is indeed true: all roads lead to Rome." Carl Trueman

Gil

What this list of comparisons proves is that the ESV (like the NASB, NIV, HCSB and the majority of 20th century English translations) is based on the Critical Text rather than the TR or the MT.

I think one of the factual contentions may be in error. Dr. Matto says:

"When you purchase an ESV, you are helping fund the NCC which is another enemy of Christ and true Christians."

Yet, on the ESV site, they aver:

"Does Crossway pay royalties to anyone for use of the ESV text?
No. Crossway owns the rights to the text."

__________________
Dennis E. McFadden, Ex Mainline Baptist (in Remission)
Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions?

In my church we have standardized on the English Standard Version. Apart from the issue regarding whether the Traditional text is better or the Critical text, it is a great translation.

The biggest problem I have with engaging in the textual criticism debate on the PB is that, as far as I can tell from past experience, all those who defend the Traditional Text here begin with the KJV and work backwards to prove from there why the KJVs particular reading is the correct one. If any of our Traditional Text defenders would like to disprove that, please show us one place where you believe the KJV used an incorrect reading from the original manuscripts? Um...do that in another thread however, as I don't mean to hijack this one.

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Robert Truelove
Pastor
Christ Reformed Church
Lawrenceville, GA

It is incontrovertible that Crossway/Good News paid the NCC up front for the rights to the RSV. It is often asserted that payments (royalties I suppose) are ongoing and as noted above, when you buy an ESV "you are helping fund the NCC". I left the UMC of my childhood years ago because I didn't want to fund the WCC and NCC so my ears perk up at this charge. However to my mind no credible evidence has been brought forward to substantiate this claim.

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Chris Poe
Mandeville, LA

"There are the foolish fanatics always to be found in such a movement and always discrediting it--the lunatic fringe in all reform movements." Theodore Roosevelt

People of faith don't engage in the methodology of scepticism. Your challenge requires one to posit that there must be a mistake somewhere before we can proceed. On that basis I aver that there must be a mistake somewhere in your methodology and therefore reject it.

You are incorrect concerning the movement from the AV back to the TR. Your observation would be equally applicable to anyone who begins with a modern version and ends up with the Nestle-Aland text. It's usually the case that English speaking people come to faith through an English translation and then become aware of textual issues afterwards. You are manipulating this fact to your advantage. The TR stands on its own merits quite apart from the question of the AV translation. As has been pointed out to you on other threads, reformed theologians defended the TR against Romanist attacks on the preserved Word of God, and for the purpose of rebutting your challenge I add that they did so before the AV was conceived. If you consult a work like Thomas Cartwright's Confutation of the Rhemist translation you will discover that the Puritan divines rejected the Vulgate (Alexandrian) readings prior to the translation of the AV.

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Yours sincerely,


"Illum oportet crescere me autem minui."

Calvin said, in his commentary of the Gospel of John, regarding other Greek manuscripts:

"...in this almost all the Greek manuscripts, or at least those of them which are most approved, are found to agree..." (Calvin, Baker pub., p.30)

I think here Calvin is indicating that they were other Greek manuscripts that were not taken serious because they were found to be inferior compared to the approved Greek manuscripts.

I think such is stilled the case right now.

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Gil Garcia
Rehoboth Reformed Church (RCUS)
La Habra, CA


"Indeed, one might say that as far as the doctrine of justification
is concerned, if you are not on the road to Wittenberg or Geneva, then the old proverb is indeed true: all roads lead to Rome." Carl Trueman

That's an interesting quote.
And tell me, were those "most approved" Greek manuscripts in Calvin's comment TR or critical?

__________________
Sterling Harmon
Coventry, CT
PCA
Deacon
________________

"Whatever is laudable in our works proceeds from the grace of God."
-- John Calvin, Institutes III:xv.3.

"Our Lord God must be a good man, to be fond of worthless fellows. I cannot like them, and yet I, myself, am one."
-- Martin Luther, Table Talk

They were approved Greek manuscripts used for the TR.

__________________
Gil Garcia
Rehoboth Reformed Church (RCUS)
La Habra, CA


"Indeed, one might say that as far as the doctrine of justification
is concerned, if you are not on the road to Wittenberg or Geneva, then the old proverb is indeed true: all roads lead to Rome." Carl Trueman